UKC

Looking at a selected guide for North Wales and looking at the pro's and con's of the Rockfax selected North Wales guide and the Ground up one.

Climb in the HVS and below sort of region.

I'll start... 1)the Rockfax one is cheaper

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC): 2) Ground up one has better topos and maps.

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):

The Rockfax one has pretty decent Winter coverage?


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

up to now not been important but may be a consideration for the future

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC): rockfax one is great, really clear topos. It is limited though in the areas it covers.

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC): id go ground-up, there is LOADS more routes in it, the topos and rote descriptions are all bang on...cons ts heavy as!

rockfax: pros: small and light, not so many routes so sometimes less cluttered topos
cons: more than a couple of typos....

are you moving here or is it just for the occasional trip?

In reply to dunkymonkey17:

Just for the occassional trip.

Mostly been to Tremadog and Moelwyns (have old pink guide) but looking to explore llanberris, slate quarries and possibly Gogarth a bit more

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):

I don't think the RF book covers Gogarth or the Slate - I believe it is "Mountain Classics".

Chris

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC): I have both books - there is little difference in size really, the ground up book being a thigh pocket sized book as apposed to any pocket with the classics. Saying that the ground up is slightly heavier.
The classics is handy just to keep in the car and do routes on a whim if passing and have the gear in the car (or just to look through and see what to do).
Look around you may find both of them for a reasonable price against rrp.
I have found book depository really cheap in the past.
And more coverage in the ground up as mentioned before too!

In reply to sleavesley:
have the gear in the car (or just to look through and see what to do).

Just checked.... £0.01 off RRP!! They even mark it up as such.

Thanks for the advice everyone... think I'll have a look round for the ground up publication... seems to fit the bill better

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):

The Ground Up guide book is great, although heavy. You get a good coverage across the whole of north wales (Tremadog, Ogwen, Gogarth, Lannberis, Slate etc etc). There is loads of routes at VS, HVS and above to keep you happy. The topos are simple and easy to understand and the crag directions and maps are excellent.

The Rockfax book looks like an excellent mountain rock guidebook, with a little more in depth coverage of some mountain crags.

So do you wants more coverage or a smaller lighter book?

Failing that get the Ground up book with this months pay check and get the rockfax with next months, therefore supporting both companies!

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):

If you can still get it - have a look for the old back and white Paul Williams Snowdonia guide.

What it lacks in glossy modern colour production, it makes up for with something far more valuable. Soul, humour and a tangeable love of the routes that reading the guide - inspires you to want to go out and climb.

I have both Ground Up (Mk 1) and Rockfax and think that they are actually complememntary and both worth purchasing. The Rockfax guide is a lovely little book for the casual visitor not climbing at the higher grades.

Also re Ground Up - as I alluded earlier, I find it a bit dry an uninspirational. Unlike their Gogarth North Guide which is a cracking read and all that a guidebook should be (apart from the copious print misalignments).

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):


Dead simple answer

Ground up one is terrific. its basically Pual williams but for the 21st century.

I have to say it proably is the best guide book i have bought in 15years

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):

Another vote for ground-up guide. It's my favourite book in the world. (And I've read some with just words and no pictures. Not many, but I have read some.)

In reply to metal arms:

Bought the ground-up one this morning. Thanks for the suggestions/advice everyone

Totally agree - it's awesome considering it's scope! I wish it was shipped with a CC style first ascent list tho... I want to know al about the epics and shenanigans.

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC): http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9781873341179/North-Wales-Classics is the one with the discount

Enjoy your climbing

I would agree that the Ground Up book is excellent but would also like to clear up a few slightly misleading statements made above about the Rockfax North wales guide.

For the areas covered it actually has on average more routes per crag than the GU book.

The reason the topos might look less cluttered is that most of the topos are considerably larger than the similar topo in the GU book.

It is nearly three times lighter and thinner than the GU book.

GU NWR certainly has more routes but there are plenty of mountain routes in the Rockfax that aren't in the GU book, mostly in the more accessible lower grades.

... but both are great books which hopefully many climbers will enjoy using.

Alan

In reply to Alan James - UKC:

I have just had an e-mail from a satisfied customer:

I used it on the notorious Lliwedd, no problems at all, found our way up, and never even looked at the brick my pal insisted on carrying in his pocket. The pokketz format is ideal for those types of looonnng routes. It also got us up Direct Route on Milestone Buttress without any issues, but that is a fairly easy task, follow the polish. Where were you when I first went to Tremadog!!. Digging through brambles and slipping on boulders those crag views and the little map are brilliant.


Nuff said!


Chris

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):


Size and Weight: GU - Average, RF - Very Good

Route Selection: GU - Excellent, RF - Very Good

Route Descriptions: GU - Excellent, RF - Average

Topos: GU - Very Good, RF - Very Good

Directions to Crags and route starting points: GU - Very Good, RF - Poor

The Maps and directions to crags and the start of routes let the Rockfax book down when compared to Ground-Up, if you didn't have prior knowledge of the area you'd spend more time working out how to find your crag than climbing. The GU gives you all the info you need

In reply to monkey1:

I'd love some examples of this since we are under the impression of exactly the opposite state of affairs (although I don't think you need to be particularly local to use either guide TBH).

There is a mistake where the box telling you how to get to the Upper Tier at Tremadog was accidentally not included so we know about that one.

Alan

In reply to Alan James - UKC:

Heres an idea... as I have just bought the ground up one, why dont you send me a free copy of the rockfax one. I'll use GU this saturday and RF on Sunday and come back and give an unbiased evaluation

In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):

Send me your address.


Chris

In reply to Alan James - UKC:

I'll sort you a of examples later, from our trip at the weekend. The names of the crags escape me as they were some of less well known from the Betws y Coed section of the book. They looked great on paper but I never managed to find see them in the flesh! (as we gave up after an hour or so of driving around). The map and directions were pretty poor to be fair.

The other minor annoyance when compared to Ground-up, was when we visited Carreg Wastad for the first time later that day. It took us a few mins to find the start of Wrinkle and Crackstone rib using only the Rockfax guide, as all we had were the topo's photographs to go by. The trouble is, the photos are from some distance, so when you at the foot of the crag it can be tricky identifying the features, etc. The Ground up guide gives a quick verbal description on all routes, 'start to the left of the overhang', 'Start behind the detached flake', etc, etc. Only cost us a few minutes so no big deal, but certainly a weaker point of the book IMO.

Still love the book for many other reasons, but prefer NWR

In reply to monkey1:

I'd love to have your feedback on this.

As you might imagine though a very general comment like "if you didn't have prior knowledge of the area you'd spend more time working out how to find your crag than climbing" about the whole book is rather annoying to read when you appear to have based it on a single approach, or maybe a couple of approaches, to crags that may well not even be in the GU guide.


This is a good point, but once again, it probably doesn't apply to many of the topos.

Alan

In reply to Alan James - UKC:

I assure you it was based on more than a couple of examples, I can see why that would be annoying but that in reality it is not the case. I can give more examples if you want.

I really didn't meant to offend but when the thread's about a comparison between the two books, I'm not going to apologise for giving an opinion based on my own experience as a user of both. I based my comments on my personal experience of the RF guide so far (it's only been available a few weeks after all).
I perhaps could have put it better, and for what it's worth I think the Book is fantastic.
Perhaps a comparison isn't really fair at all, when one of the books is about 4 times thicker and heavier than the other.

Does anyone know what software 'Ground Up' use for their maps? I quite like it. Is it something online?