UKC

Total hip replacement

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 jon 11 Jun 2010
I've seen topics on hip replacements before, but they've been for hip resurfacing rather than total hip replacements. Personally, at the moment, I'd rather have the resurfacing job. I've read up on it and spoken to several people who've had it and know exactly what it entails. Unfortunately, unlike GB, here in France there is a definite feeling against resurfacing and very few surgeons who are willing to do it. So I'm being pushed - somewhat against my will towards a total replacement.

Has anyone on here had a total hip replacement? Do you still climb? Can you still climb at you previous standard? (Can you climb harder!?)
 blondel 11 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:

I know a marathon-runner in his mid-sixties who had a total hip replacement. Within 6 months he was back up to half-marathon distance and he has no doubt he'll be back to the full distance in time (he's a GP, and knows what's possible: he also has a huge amount of determination). I don't see why it should be any different for a climber. Good luck.
OP jon 11 Jun 2010
In reply to an gwynne:

Thanks... no marathons for me though! Sounds encouraging.
 sutty 11 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:

I seem to remember John Sumner who did the Cowarch guide had his replaced at one time and got going again. Sure there was a thread about it a couple of years back with others who had had theirs done as well.

If you do have a full replacement, check on the make of hip joint they will fit, and read up on which are the best. Some are a lot better than others. Find a good surgeon as well, one of my sisters was fitted a tadge off line and had to be redone.
Removed User 11 Jun 2010
In reply to sutty: The jury is truly out on which is 'best'! Still a lot of studies being done into longevity and failure modes etc.
 Dave Garnett 11 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:

I think John Harwood had both done. I can put you in touch if you'd like to discuss the grisly details.
 Dave Garnett 11 Jun 2010
In reply to Dave Garnett:

Actually, given the Pembroke connection, you probably know him already.
 Darron 11 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:

My wife had both done (at the same time - less time off climbing) and she is fine - climbing in pembroke 6 weeks post op!

It seems to me that the surgeon you get is important. My wife researched hers on the web and then vitually interviewed him re suitability for her/ failure rate/infection rate etc etc. Ditto what to have (and actually she went for resurface but that proved not possible when they opened her up).

All this on our wonderful NHS by the way

Good luck - hope it goes well.
 metal arms 11 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:

Off topic but.....

Who's the coolest dude in the hospital?

The Ultrasound man.

Who's the second?

The hip-replacement guy!
OP jon 11 Jun 2010
In reply to Darron:

6 weeks! My word, that's quick. how does she feel about them - I mean do they feel like her hips or does she feel that they are indeed artificial?

Sadly I don't think I qualify for NHS having lived abroad too long. However, if I get it done in France it'll be practically free - the State pays half and my mutuelle insurance picks up the rest. I just have to pay for bits and bobs. Hence my interest in the total replacement - the only type they seem interested in doing.
 Andy Nisbet 11 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:

It's possible in Britain that they might not be keen on resurfacing yours, since you're too old. I know when I had my hip resurfaced, the surgeon said I was a bit old at 49. But he might just have been covering his back. And things may well have changed since in the last few years. It's not always easy getting resurfacing done on the NHS in Britain, depends where you live. The Highlands is OK but you have to insist on going to a hospital outside the Highlands, because they aren't keen here. If you have a helpful GP, it's much easier.
OP jon 11 Jun 2010
In reply to Andy Nisbet:

Hi Andy, I'm still in France...! That's the problem - they are not at all in favour of anything as radical as resurfacing here... hence the proposal for a total replacement. One of my clients had a resurfacing done in GB when he was nearly 60. I agree about the GP - mine is dead against it - says they don't work! Period. You seem to be going OK on yours!
Cheers, Jon de M
 Andy Nisbet 11 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:

My GP is a climber. But the doctors in Inverness are mostly against it. I have heard of climbers with replacement hips, but you really need to find one or two. Mostly youngsters like us on here!
 Ron Walker 11 Jun 2010
In reply to Andy Nisbet/Jon:

Out of interest how do you know that your hips need done. When I mention aching hips and knees I'm told it's my lifestyle and to take some ant-inflammatories or what do you expect at your age!!!

Ron
OP jon 11 Jun 2010
In reply to Ron Walker:

Pain. I saw a surgeon some six months back and he did various tests, each of which scored a mark. The max on his scale (Lesquesne in France) is 13. He won't operate until you score 10. I scored 6.5. So at that point I was, in his words, between a year and five years from needing surgery. He didn't score not being able to sleep very highly. I've heard from a friend who's had a resurfacing that in GB, not sleeping scores quite highly. Just in the last week I've had a huge increase in the amount of pain I'm experiencing and have been limping quite badly. I have an X-ray appointment on Monday and an appointment with a rheumatologist on Tuesday. So we'll see how things have progressed - or rather, deteriorated. It is still possible apparently that the pain could be referrred pain from my back, but frankly it feels so deep in my hip joint that I'm sceptical about that.
 Andy Nisbet 11 Jun 2010
In reply to Ron Walker:

I was taking anti-inflammatories for 3 years (mostly on the assumption nothing could be done). When it began to get so sore I wasn't sure I'd be able to carry on, I went to see my GP in Aviemore and they x-rayed it there (on the spot I think). She could see roughness of the top of the femur and she/we decided resurfacing would be worthwhile. I paid for the first appointment (£150) in Glasgow and because I was paying, the question was, "what day suits you?" It all happened very quickly and suddenly I was on the NHS waiting list. 9 months wait in those days. I managed about 6 months and then had to stop going to the hills for 3.
But mine was one hip. If it's both hips and both knees, then you might have a problem. I was 5 months and I was winter climbing again. The 6 weeks with two replacement hips makes me disbelieve it.
 Ron Walker 11 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:

I would have thought someone like yourself or Andy who have pushed hard at the top end of our sport would have a higher pain threshold than say a non climber. The tests sound fairly subjective. You never know it may be just a trapped nerve or something....
OP jon 11 Jun 2010
In reply to Andy Nisbet:

I've been on anti-inflammatories for a number of years now - not specifically for the hip, but also for shoulder problems. I have also developed and photo sensitivity and whenever I'm in strongish sun, large blisters appear on any exposed bits, particularly arms. This photo sensitivity neatly coincides with the period I've been on the anti-inflams and apparently this is a known side effect with this particular medication. I was warned that the allergy could develop seriously if I didn't stop taking them. So I stopped. This made me realise how much they were masking the hip pain. The X-rays I took to my original consultation showed clearly the extent of the arthritis. I guess next week will reveal the extent of the deterioration.
OP jon 11 Jun 2010
In reply to Ron Walker:

Well, we'll see. I have a very low pain threshold - and I've never pushed that hard!
 Mark Kemball 11 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to Ron Walker)
>
> Well,...I've never pushed that hard!

Bollocks!

 Cardi 12 Jun 2010
In reply to jon: Just to clear things up - resurfacing doesn't mean quite what it says on the tin - basically the head is resurfaced but a prosthesis is placed over the top of it, held in place by a short stem drilled into the femoral head, and a socket inserted in the pelvis to create a new acetabulum.

Pic here - http://z.about.com/d/arthritis/1/0/s/2/BHR_component.jpg

Although it's looks like it should be a smaller operation than a THR, it is a longer and technically more complicated operation than a THR (2 and a half to 3 hours compared with an hour and a bit), but tends to be the preferred option in relively young, active people because it leaves open the option of conversion to THR years down the line as the femoral neck is preserved. This will then delay need for a revision of the total hip replacement until much further down the line (which is a complicated procedure, with less successful outcomes)

Feel free to ask any questions, as I've helped with a fair few of the above procedures, so should hopefully be able to answer some of them!
OP jon 12 Jun 2010
In reply to Cardi:

Thanks for the reply - yes I did know that. I have a gruesome video....! The reason I was/am in favour of the 'resurfacing' is because 1) as far as I know it's a larger dia joint and is metal on metal and is subject to less wear. 2) It allows a larger range of movement 3) Gives you two bites of the cherry as it doesn't require the neck of the femur to be removed, thus allowing a total replacement at a later stage. 4) I have spoken to so many people with successful resurfacings that I don't want to risk losing any benefits that a resurfacing gives.

My reason for posting was to find out if in fact a THR is less appropriate to a climber who wants to keep climbing and who incidentally makes his living from guiding. I've cut down my guiding considerably in recent years and am NOT looking at increasing it following a successful outcome - just maintaining it.

I'll wait and see what the rheumatologist says on Tuesday, then if you don't mind I'll ask you any pertinent questions. Thanks again.
OP jon 12 Jun 2010
In reply to Mark Kemball:
> (In reply to jon)
> [...]
>
> Bollocks!

Well, I've been pulled very hard!

 Cardi 12 Jun 2010
In reply to jon: The majority of THR's done in this country are now metal on metal as well, but the main point is as you mentioned above about the femoral head not being used. Larger diameter joint also means less risk of dislocation with extreme flexion/extension
 kathrync 12 Jun 2010
In reply to Cardi:

Hey

Sorry to hijack, but do you know anything about peri-acetabular osteomtomy? This has been suggested to me to correct mis-alignment in my right hip from congenital hip dysplasia which is beginning to cause me grief. The people I have spoken to about it seem split 50:50 between thinking it's a good plan and thinking it's a terrible one. Just trying to find out more information!
 JJL 12 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:

Hi jon

I'm sure you've considered coming back to the UK for the op?

J
OP jon 12 Jun 2010
In reply to JJL:

Well that's one of the problems - I don't think I'd qualify for an NHS op having lived abroad for more than 20years. Also it'd be a long drawn out thing going back and forth for consultations etc and of course I couldn't chose the date. I could (and would if necessary) go private but that'd be £15,000+. In France it'd be paid for. So there's the question... is a free THR as good as an expensive resurfacing?
 Ron Walker 12 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:

I would have thought that living next to Chamonix that the medical care and expertise would be far better than in most places in the world. The medical profession must get more practise with sport injuries and care than anywhere else judging by the number helicopters and folk wandering about with sport supports in Chamonix!!!! Also there must be a lot of French guides and ski instructor with similar conditions.
BTW we have had experience of the health care system in France or at least Briancon and it's not that much different from the UK though it would make an interesting story!

Cheers Ron
 Cardi 12 Jun 2010
In reply to Ron Walker: Geneva, in fact is where a massive amount of metal implants have been pioneered due to the proximity of skiing and alpinism to it
 Andy Nisbet 12 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:

I wasn't tested on a pain scale like that in Britan. The surgeon just looked at the x-ray and said OK. He did suggest I should have come earlier, and he was right (in retrospect). But mine was arthritis caused by a previous neck of femur break, so perhaps different.
 Darron 14 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:

Funny you ask how she feels about them. At first she def felt that they wern't hers and perhaps felt they did not belong there. She got used to that though and now everything is grand.

She posts on here occasionally. If you want a chat re hips I can get her to post or mail you?
 Darron 14 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:
Just seen the post above re the larger diameter head. That was one thing my wife was insistent upon - she felt it was vital for climbing to avoid dislocations when 'in extremis' (ouch! can you imagine?).
I should say that she has decided not to lead much as she feels the hips would be vunerable in a fall. We also make sure the routes we do don't have major traverses for the same reason.

In my experience the stem of THR can leave the leg vulnerable (imagine a metal bar inside your femur and it recieves a big lateral force - it can break out of the femur).

Andy
Sorry you don't believe we were climbing again 6 weeks post op. Op was on April 7th. We were on Bow slab in Pembroke half term just after. maybe 8 weeks after. Dosen't really matter - the point I was making is that it was a quick recovery even with two hips replaced.
OP jon 14 Jun 2010
In reply to Darron:

The surgeon I saw six months ago showed me an interesting development from Belgium. It was a THR prosthesis but with a much shorter stem. With this particular one, less of the neck of the femur is cut away. He wasn't actually fitting this at the moment as he wanted to see how they progressed, but he thought it would be something he could see himself using in the future. I guess that this type of prosthesis would render the femur less vulnerable to what you describe. You said she went for a resurface but that it was not possible. This means that she has THRs. Did she manage to find THRs with large dia heads?
 Andy Nisbet 14 Jun 2010
In reply to Darron:
> Andy
> Sorry you don't believe we were climbing again 6 weeks post op. Op was on April 7th. We were on Bow slab in Pembroke half term just after. maybe 8 weeks after. Dosen't really matter - the point I was making is that it was a quick recovery even with two hips replaced.

OK. Only going on me and friends having resurfacing (less serious) of one hip. 12 weeks on crutches (OK, I did 6 weeks on crutches and 6 weeks on ski sticks). I was fit before the op and I tried really hard on physio - stretched every limitation I was given. And everything went well, no back problems like many get before the pelvis realigns). 5 months to climbing (properly), so you can't help me being sceptical

 Chris_Mellor 14 Jun 2010
In reply to jon: Have you looked at the Surfacehippy forum? It is probably the best Internet resource on hip resurfacing matters and could well identify a French surgeon of repute for you.
 Darron 14 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to Darron)
>
Did she manage to find THRs with large dia heads?

Yes she did. The point I was trying to make in my OP was that which surgeon you see seems to be critical. They all have their own ideas (or seem to). Hence the importance of trying to find someone who understands and is willing and able to give you what you want/need.
Interesting development re the prosthesis with the shorter stem. All other criteria satisfied I should imagine that would be a good way to go. Of course if you go down a new route you don't have figures of the life expectancy of the prosthesis etc

OP jon 14 Jun 2010
In reply to Darron:
> (In reply to jon)
> [...]
> Did she manage to find THRs with large dia heads?
>
> Of course if you go down a new route you don't have figures of the life expectancy of the prosthesis etc

Well yes, it surprised me a bit because one of the main reasons he gave for not doing resurfacings was that as yet a life expectancy for the joint has yet to be established. This, of course, is bollocks. I think it's just an example of a French surgeon being conservative and not wanting to go outside his comfort zone. I must admit though, I was impressed with the amount of time he allocated me even having established that I wasn't ready for an op.

Knitting Norah 14 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:

Just be aware to mention if you have any allergies to metals. I have a nickel allergy and so could not have the metal on metal full hip replacement. Instead I have a ceramic with titanium one. It has a smaller head than the metal ones. The only movement I have to avoid is putting my knee close up against the front of my chest and stepping up on it so that it takes all my weight. Side steps etc are fine. I don't climb to any great standard anyway but can manage fine. Mine was done a year last February and now feels perfectly normal. I still find I am amased at the loss of all the pain and difficulty I had walking. It's like it was all a bad dream and never really happened.
 Kean 15 Jun 2010
In reply to jon: I'm no expert, but my dad had a hip op. He's into badminton big time. He was told he needed a hip replacement. I'm pretty sure it would be classified as a total. He decided to put off the op cos he's got a v. high tolerance to pain and probably thought he knew better. I saw him go from someone with a slight limp to someone who looked like he had curvature of the spine within a year. He had to give up his badminton. His leg muscles wasted rapidly and I imagine he had considerable muscle loss in many other postural areas. So when he finally did have the op he was in much worse physical shape and was coming from much further back in terms of post-op recovery.

I talked him into having it done, and seeked out advice and examples from people I know: A guy in the climbing club in the UK who's had both done and still climbs and walks, I can't comment on his climbing standard. A guy here in Italy who's a retired surgeon, both hips, nearly 70 and into ski-touring big time. No problem, still doing massive ascents with a heavy sack.

My (LAY) understanding is the hip type is chosen after the surgeon determines the patient's mobility expectations: an sedentary lifestyle means a hip which is more stable (so less risk of dislocation?) but offers less flexibility and a speedier recovery and maybe anticipates that the patient is going to be less disciplined with the physio (so less suitable for climbing); a more active lifestyle expectation and the new hip offers greater mobility but requires more rigorous physio to make it stable (and reduce the risk of dislocation?) and a longer recovery.
But as I say, research this 'cos I could be talking bollocks.

Anyway, my dad finally had the op, had quite a bit of pain, was walking very quickly and is back playing badminton now, and is disappointed 'cos he's no better than he was before...he also came out to Italy and crag climbed for the first time in his life
OP jon 16 Jun 2010
In reply to Knitting Norah and kean:

Thanks for thr replies. I had my X-rays done and took them to see the rheumatologist in Chamonix yesterday. Although they show no deterioration from last year, he says I'm easily at the stage of needing the replacement and has given me a letter of introduction to a surgeon in Lyon (who coincidentally has replaced both hips of a Chamonix guide who is a keen and hard climber, who is very pleased with his results). It's then up to the surgeon to determine when it should be done and which prosthesis. It will be a THR and not a resurface. Realistically I think some time this winter will be best. I take the point (and had already had it pointed out to me) that the fitter you are the better you convalesce, so I'll have some six months to get as fit as possible. So, I'll see what the guy in Lyon says...
 Darron 16 Jun 2010
In reply to jon:

Sounds good - good luck.

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