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Has anyone tried them yet? Can only find peglers stocking them. Would like to try before you buy, if thats possible.
In reply to WILLS: Has anyone got them in yet? Peglers site is just saying 'available from September', so I'm guessing not quite yet?
In reply to Nick Smith - UKC: they look VERY nice though.
In reply to WILLS: anyone have an idea how the new nomic with a hammer would be to use in scotland? The nomic is after all so good I'd feel a little silly buying anything else and please don't come moaning about plunging
In reply to WILLS:
Yeah I’ve played with the quarks. They are very nice and I personally prefer them to the old model. Petzl have not yet released them, (I think), I was informed mid to end of September. I know I will be getting a pair.
Jack
Yeah I’ve played with the quarks. They are very nice and I personally prefer them to the old model. Petzl have not yet released them, (I think), I was informed mid to end of September. I know I will be getting a pair.
Jack
In reply to Hannes:
? Pegs perhaps?
> (In reply to WILLS) anyone have an idea how the new nomic with a hammer would be to use in scotland? The nomic is after all so good I'd feel a little silly buying anything else and please don't come moaning about plunging
? Pegs perhaps?
In reply to WILLS:
this summer i was on the hill with a friend who works for marmot, who said hed had a pop with them at ouray.
now, this is second hand info so of limited use, and hes a petzl guy already, but his reports were good.
the nomic apparently is barely different except for a slight shift in the swing with a little more weight at the sharp end.
he didnt mention the hammer tho other than to say it had one that was a total copy of the bootleg one thats been around a few years in the US.
he said the new quark was easier to hold but thats all.
his main rave was the new ergos, couldnt keep him seated. best thing since the nomics were his words.
told you it wouldnt be much use.
me, i will wait till my old nomics are trashed, but may just have to try the ergos for myself and scrape together the $700 for it.
this summer i was on the hill with a friend who works for marmot, who said hed had a pop with them at ouray.
now, this is second hand info so of limited use, and hes a petzl guy already, but his reports were good.
the nomic apparently is barely different except for a slight shift in the swing with a little more weight at the sharp end.
he didnt mention the hammer tho other than to say it had one that was a total copy of the bootleg one thats been around a few years in the US.
he said the new quark was easier to hold but thats all.
his main rave was the new ergos, couldnt keep him seated. best thing since the nomics were his words.
told you it wouldnt be much use.
me, i will wait till my old nomics are trashed, but may just have to try the ergos for myself and scrape together the $700 for it.
In reply to WILLS: Ramon on here always gives a fair review ..I seem to remember he had a sneeky look at some before they were released, dont quote me on that though.
http://ramonmarin-uk.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.html
he might have had a better look since... he wont mind me saying he's a gear nut so will know where to try a pair I'm sure.
http://ramonmarin-uk.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.html
he might have had a better look since... he wont mind me saying he's a gear nut so will know where to try a pair I'm sure.
In reply to mux: Should of added you might want to check out the Vipers if you havent already... fecking ace for bonnie in my view.
In reply to Nick Smith - UKC:
Urban Rock have promised me they'll have some next week - it's going to be a long weekend!
> (In reply to WILLS) Has anyone got them in yet? Peglers site is just saying 'available from September', so I'm guessing not quite yet?
Urban Rock have promised me they'll have some next week - it's going to be a long weekend!
In reply to mux:
My pinkies feel a little squashed (Yes, I've got fat hands) if I'm wearing thick gloves and they don't feel better to me than a pair of Grivel matrix tech which are cheaper as I wouldn't have to shell out for another set of picks. The cobras are sexy though, sexy enough for me to live with the squashed pinkie but the nomics are so good I honestly don't know which of the three to get.
> (In reply to mux) Should of added you might want to check out the Vipers if you havent already... fecking ace for bonnie in my view.
My pinkies feel a little squashed (Yes, I've got fat hands) if I'm wearing thick gloves and they don't feel better to me than a pair of Grivel matrix tech which are cheaper as I wouldn't have to shell out for another set of picks. The cobras are sexy though, sexy enough for me to live with the squashed pinkie but the nomics are so good I honestly don't know which of the three to get.
In reply to nufkin:
They've got the new quark on thier site!
http://www.urbanrock.com/products_detail.php?PId=3468
> (In reply to Nick Smith - UKC)
> [...]
>
> Urban Rock have promised me they'll have some next week - it's going to be a long weekend!
> [...]
>
> Urban Rock have promised me they'll have some next week - it's going to be a long weekend!
They've got the new quark on thier site!
http://www.urbanrock.com/products_detail.php?PId=3468
In reply to Hannes:
All of them!
> (In reply to mux)
> I honestly don't know which of the three to get.
> I honestly don't know which of the three to get.
All of them!
In reply to WILLS:
I have a feeling petzl are ditching the hammer,
Had a look at nomics with the newer orange handle, but they lacked the hammer. I dont know if it id my imagination but prefered the swing on the original nomic.
I have a feeling petzl are ditching the hammer,
Had a look at nomics with the newer orange handle, but they lacked the hammer. I dont know if it id my imagination but prefered the swing on the original nomic.
In reply to Scarab: The original Nomics don't have a hammer. As far as I can see the 2010 model looks the same except for the metal teeth on the bottom of the trigger. According to the Petzl website you can also fit a hammer to the new model, you can't put one on the original one.
Were you looking at a Nomic or an original Quark ergo which had an all orange handle and was out before the nomic
http://www.pineneedle.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=6372
Were you looking at a Nomic or an original Quark ergo which had an all orange handle and was out before the nomic
http://www.pineneedle.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=6372
In reply to WILLS: the entire new range can be fitted with hammer and adze, including the ergo and nomic and supposedly you can retrofit the hammer to old nomics if you change to the new t pick. I beleive they are sold without hammer so that is an extra cost to keep in mind
In reply to WILLS: had my first play with the new quarks today at nevi sport in deansgate, Manchester. First impression was very light, without pick weights. The trigger grip was an innovation, adjustable and can be slid to the top to aide plunging. Don't know how the smaller head will affect mantling moves. youtube.com/watch?v=FzTlFhLTukI&
On the above link the guy seems to be having trouble getting them to place in the ice, that is the only trade off i can see from light axes. The link is in some Germanic language shame.
Personally I would want to "try before I buy" is this something Lyon Equipment would set up at the ice walls around the country? I hope so, its a big expense if you don't like them.
Anyone that buys a pair could I be cheeky and get you to do a you tube Please.
On the above link the guy seems to be having trouble getting them to place in the ice, that is the only trade off i can see from light axes. The link is in some Germanic language shame.
Personally I would want to "try before I buy" is this something Lyon Equipment would set up at the ice walls around the country? I hope so, its a big expense if you don't like them.
Anyone that buys a pair could I be cheeky and get you to do a you tube Please.
In reply to mux:
Yes, I did have a feel for the Ergos at the Knucklebasher comp in Canmore last season. They felt very radical, specific to hard mixed and DT, a bit like the old Fusions used to be. They new Fusions have same angles as Nomics, so they left a gap in the market I supposed. They felt more like the e-climbs or Bubu's Murcilego, not sure who's the target market despite Ueli's using them in the Alps. I didn't swing them on ice, so I can't say.
To me, the best thing about the Nomic, that beats all of other tools by miles, is the swing on ice because of the balanced head due to having the weight very fwd on the pick. Introducing the hammer throws that out of the window. New Fusions sort of adresses that with a far heavier headset, not for me. I'm sticking to the old Nomics, but again, I don't scottish stuff.
Yes, I did have a feel for the Ergos at the Knucklebasher comp in Canmore last season. They felt very radical, specific to hard mixed and DT, a bit like the old Fusions used to be. They new Fusions have same angles as Nomics, so they left a gap in the market I supposed. They felt more like the e-climbs or Bubu's Murcilego, not sure who's the target market despite Ueli's using them in the Alps. I didn't swing them on ice, so I can't say.
To me, the best thing about the Nomic, that beats all of other tools by miles, is the swing on ice because of the balanced head due to having the weight very fwd on the pick. Introducing the hammer throws that out of the window. New Fusions sort of adresses that with a far heavier headset, not for me. I'm sticking to the old Nomics, but again, I don't scottish stuff.
In reply to ramon marin martinez: I like the old nomic for that too ..really well balanced ..oh and they work just dandy in Bonnie.
I use the old fusion though as they were CHEAPER and I am a skint .. the fusion does have a heavier head that takes a litte getting used to if you have used the nomics..
cant comment on the new breeds as I have not seen them in the flesh.
I use the old fusion though as they were CHEAPER and I am a skint .. the fusion does have a heavier head that takes a litte getting used to if you have used the nomics..
cant comment on the new breeds as I have not seen them in the flesh.
In reply to WILLS:
I've had a little play with the new Quarks (in the shop) and i am very impressed with them.
The first thing you notice is the lightness. They are a full 100g lighter than the old Quarks, and that is with all the toys attached to it.
It's got a really good balance, top heavy like the Nomics, which should make it rather good on ice, although i liked the reassuring 'iron bar' feeling of the old ones. It's possible to attach pick weights which should make it a beast on ice.
The top hand rest works really well, but i find the trig-rest annoying and i would take it out on the first day.
A few nice touches such as a proper spike with a full size clippable hole on it.
Only problem i saw with them is that the hammer/adze is now rather unusable due to the head being like the one in the Nomics, plus both are at a strange angle.
I didn't feel any difference with the Nomics, other than the colour and the ridged handrest which smells like a botch-job. I guess if you put on the Hammer you'd need a bit of a play with the pick weights to try to get it to work in ice, though not sure how that'll affect the swing having the weight behind the head rather than in front.
I've had a little play with the new Quarks (in the shop) and i am very impressed with them.
The first thing you notice is the lightness. They are a full 100g lighter than the old Quarks, and that is with all the toys attached to it.
It's got a really good balance, top heavy like the Nomics, which should make it rather good on ice, although i liked the reassuring 'iron bar' feeling of the old ones. It's possible to attach pick weights which should make it a beast on ice.
The top hand rest works really well, but i find the trig-rest annoying and i would take it out on the first day.
A few nice touches such as a proper spike with a full size clippable hole on it.
Only problem i saw with them is that the hammer/adze is now rather unusable due to the head being like the one in the Nomics, plus both are at a strange angle.
I didn't feel any difference with the Nomics, other than the colour and the ridged handrest which smells like a botch-job. I guess if you put on the Hammer you'd need a bit of a play with the pick weights to try to get it to work in ice, though not sure how that'll affect the swing having the weight behind the head rather than in front.
Got the new Quarks! Tried them ice climbing and alpine style. They swing way better than the old ones; quite similar to the Nomics. However, the curved shaft makes hammering a bit awkward, but ok for me. The trigrest and handrest can be removed, however you'll need an allen key for the handrest. Better decide before you go. The hammer/acze can be removed too. But you'll need both an allen key and a workbench and some swearing for the reinstallation. I'll leave them on at all times.
Has anyone used the Nomic as a quiver of one pair for everything. Especially interested in how it works in alpine stuff (most of the use would still be on ice) - or would Quark still be the one to choose?
New Nomic with a hammer and adze + spike on the new version should make it pretty versatile, albeit not a lightweight one.
New Nomic with a hammer and adze + spike on the new version should make it pretty versatile, albeit not a lightweight one.
In reply to jpa:
one of the guys in pakistan this summer was using nomics for that kinda stuff (big mixed alpine).
ueli steck seems happy judging from the promo video.
i use nomics but not for alpine - they really are hopeless for pioleting without the spike. new ones seems to have addressed that.
also a bit short.
they are awesome for sticking on steep neve because they have such a bend
one of the guys in pakistan this summer was using nomics for that kinda stuff (big mixed alpine).
ueli steck seems happy judging from the promo video.
i use nomics but not for alpine - they really are hopeless for pioleting without the spike. new ones seems to have addressed that.
also a bit short.
they are awesome for sticking on steep neve because they have such a bend
In reply to WILLS: Ive ordered a pair of the new Quarks, am wondering does anyone know do they come with T or B rated picks?
In reply to WILLS: T rated now, according to the petzl website
In reply to ice.solo:
new nomic has 1) a significantly larger handle (I can wear double gloves now), which is IMO the main improvement 2) a lighter head 3) a new T rated pick (the same for all new Petzl series) 3) spikes on the handle (do not like them very much) 4) weight is about 30g or 40g less, they are now just a few grams over the Cobras. The small hammer seems actually more usable then the one made from Dane (Coldthistle), which basically is a reinforcement of the back of the head.
> (In reply to WILLS)
>
>
> the nomic apparently is barely different except for a slight shift in the swing with a little more weight at the sharp end.
> he didnt mention the hammer tho other than to say it had one that was a total copy of the bootleg one thats been around a few years in the US.
>
>
> the nomic apparently is barely different except for a slight shift in the swing with a little more weight at the sharp end.
> he didnt mention the hammer tho other than to say it had one that was a total copy of the bootleg one thats been around a few years in the US.
new nomic has 1) a significantly larger handle (I can wear double gloves now), which is IMO the main improvement 2) a lighter head 3) a new T rated pick (the same for all new Petzl series) 3) spikes on the handle (do not like them very much) 4) weight is about 30g or 40g less, they are now just a few grams over the Cobras. The small hammer seems actually more usable then the one made from Dane (Coldthistle), which basically is a reinforcement of the back of the head.
In reply to ice.solo:
Good to hear they work nicely on neve, as I would like to be able to steep snow/ice gullies/faces with them, idea being that once 1 tool (straight alpine axe) is not enough for the crux of the route, then Nomics would be taken instead. And they seem to work well on low angled ice (WI2-3's), like this:
youtube.com/watch?v=tag4Iyu7dRQ&
and this;
youtube.com/watch?v=rzSOfwMF51s&
Good to hear they work nicely on neve, as I would like to be able to steep snow/ice gullies/faces with them, idea being that once 1 tool (straight alpine axe) is not enough for the crux of the route, then Nomics would be taken instead. And they seem to work well on low angled ice (WI2-3's), like this:
youtube.com/watch?v=tag4Iyu7dRQ&
and this;
youtube.com/watch?v=rzSOfwMF51s&
In reply to Karus:
"The small hammer seems actually more usable then the one made from Dane (Coldthistle), which basically is a reinforcement of the back of the head."
Hummm...bold staement unless you have used both. Have you?
"The small hammer seems actually more usable then the one made from Dane (Coldthistle), which basically is a reinforcement of the back of the head."
Hummm...bold staement unless you have used both. Have you?
In reply to Dane1:
Hi,
I wrote “seems”, since I had in my hands the new Petzl tools with and without hammer but I've seen your hammer just in web pictures. Otherwise I would have written “is”.
It actually seems that Petzl's hammer on Nomics should work better than any type of head reinforcement on Nomics because 1. it partially compensates the angle of the head, which is now more aligned with the hammering axe. 2. it gains some distance from the head.
On the other side, it has some influence on balance and swing.
I've used the head of the old Nomics for hammering in emergency situations (that was possible with the old tool, but I wouldn't do that with the new); with new Petzl's hammer pitoning is definitely more effective and comfortable. Wether one chooses to use Nomics with hammer or not for alpine routes is a different issue.
Hi,
I wrote “seems”, since I had in my hands the new Petzl tools with and without hammer but I've seen your hammer just in web pictures. Otherwise I would have written “is”.
It actually seems that Petzl's hammer on Nomics should work better than any type of head reinforcement on Nomics because 1. it partially compensates the angle of the head, which is now more aligned with the hammering axe. 2. it gains some distance from the head.
On the other side, it has some influence on balance and swing.
I've used the head of the old Nomics for hammering in emergency situations (that was possible with the old tool, but I wouldn't do that with the new); with new Petzl's hammer pitoning is definitely more effective and comfortable. Wether one chooses to use Nomics with hammer or not for alpine routes is a different issue.
In reply to WILLS:
My advice is to go with Cassin if you want to modulate your wishings of ice http://www.cassin.it/uk/news.asp?News=48
My advice is to go with Cassin if you want to modulate your wishings of ice http://www.cassin.it/uk/news.asp?News=48
In reply to Karus:
Then we agree "seems" and "is" are two totally different things.
High clearence tools like the Nomic make terrible hammers to begin with. Add a bunch of weight on the back end of them and you negate much of their great balance as a technical tool. If you need a big wall hammer to pound pins, carry a third tool. It will be more efficent.
I build a Nomic hammer. Not a head reinforcement. Petzl's hammer is based in part on my design work, which I gave them years ago.
Petzl decided bigger and heavier would work. Makes perfect sense on the more generic design and use of the Quark. The new Quark is certainly a better all around tool than the old Quark. Just because you can bolt the new Quark hammer and adze on the Nomic doesn't mean either make sense. I have no doubt they were looking at improving the Quark not the Nomic with that design effort.
Make the hammer protrude far enough from a Nomic shaft and you will make the hammer more useable. Of course every mm you put the weight farther behind the shaft the more you loose balance and pentration if you can't keep the shaft perfectly aligned in a swing.
Make a choice...decent but not great hammer... or... a great mixed/ice tool that will pound a pin when required.
I have actually used both hammers. Which is why I will continue to build a better hammer for any generation Nomic.
Bjørn-Eivind Årtun used two of the my hammers on his and Colin Haley's new route, Dracula, Mt Foraker, in June 2010.
Check out the picture:
http://coldthistletools.blogspot.com/
After their '10 season in Alaska, Årtun asked if I could cut a a pair of 4mm hammers instead of the current 7mm hammers he was using. The idea was to drop even more weight and help get back to the original balance of the Nomic.
Imagine that?
Adding weight to the back of a Noimic is going backwards. If you have to add weight you want it as close to the shaft as possible to retain the balance.
Cold Thistle production hammers weight 34 grams per tool. The Petzl hammer weight is 58 grams. Nomic pick weights are 62 grams. Most will chose to use the C/T hammer and no pick weight on a Nomic. If you climb on the Nomic you'll already know just how easily it is to change the balance of the tool.
Then we agree "seems" and "is" are two totally different things.
High clearence tools like the Nomic make terrible hammers to begin with. Add a bunch of weight on the back end of them and you negate much of their great balance as a technical tool. If you need a big wall hammer to pound pins, carry a third tool. It will be more efficent.
I build a Nomic hammer. Not a head reinforcement. Petzl's hammer is based in part on my design work, which I gave them years ago.
Petzl decided bigger and heavier would work. Makes perfect sense on the more generic design and use of the Quark. The new Quark is certainly a better all around tool than the old Quark. Just because you can bolt the new Quark hammer and adze on the Nomic doesn't mean either make sense. I have no doubt they were looking at improving the Quark not the Nomic with that design effort.
Make the hammer protrude far enough from a Nomic shaft and you will make the hammer more useable. Of course every mm you put the weight farther behind the shaft the more you loose balance and pentration if you can't keep the shaft perfectly aligned in a swing.
Make a choice...decent but not great hammer... or... a great mixed/ice tool that will pound a pin when required.
I have actually used both hammers. Which is why I will continue to build a better hammer for any generation Nomic.
Bjørn-Eivind Årtun used two of the my hammers on his and Colin Haley's new route, Dracula, Mt Foraker, in June 2010.
Check out the picture:
http://coldthistletools.blogspot.com/
After their '10 season in Alaska, Årtun asked if I could cut a a pair of 4mm hammers instead of the current 7mm hammers he was using. The idea was to drop even more weight and help get back to the original balance of the Nomic.
Imagine that?
Adding weight to the back of a Noimic is going backwards. If you have to add weight you want it as close to the shaft as possible to retain the balance.
Cold Thistle production hammers weight 34 grams per tool. The Petzl hammer weight is 58 grams. Nomic pick weights are 62 grams. Most will chose to use the C/T hammer and no pick weight on a Nomic. If you climb on the Nomic you'll already know just how easily it is to change the balance of the tool.
In reply to Dane1:
Hi Dane,
No, I do not agree that “seems” and “is” are not at all two “totally different things”. No, they are not, fortunately.
I'm not going to comment on what you said about the hammer you build and sell. It's in any case nice having some more choice.
Just a question:
the head of new Quarks and Nomics (and Ergos) being the same, why Petzl engineers, who, as you said, already knew and were inspired from your design did not choose to copy it? New Quarks would have been winners in the pataphysic war for lightness, and even more balanced with a smaller, shorter hammer. Or did they simply choose some more effectiveness in hammering, in case the climber chooses to add a hammer?
Hi Dane,
No, I do not agree that “seems” and “is” are not at all two “totally different things”. No, they are not, fortunately.
I'm not going to comment on what you said about the hammer you build and sell. It's in any case nice having some more choice.
Just a question:
the head of new Quarks and Nomics (and Ergos) being the same, why Petzl engineers, who, as you said, already knew and were inspired from your design did not choose to copy it? New Quarks would have been winners in the pataphysic war for lightness, and even more balanced with a smaller, shorter hammer. Or did they simply choose some more effectiveness in hammering, in case the climber chooses to add a hammer?
In reply to Karus:
Easy answer..they prefered not to be forced into a discussion on royalties.
Petzl designed the hammer and adze to be used on the NEW Quark. All around tools work better with a hammer and adze. Best to match hammer and adze design to the shaft shape.
The chance that the newest hammer and adze fit on the Nomic and Ergo doesn't mean it is the best design work for either of those tools.
Comments? I simply don't comment on gear I haven't used.
Easy answer..they prefered not to be forced into a discussion on royalties.
Petzl designed the hammer and adze to be used on the NEW Quark. All around tools work better with a hammer and adze. Best to match hammer and adze design to the shaft shape.
The chance that the newest hammer and adze fit on the Nomic and Ergo doesn't mean it is the best design work for either of those tools.
Comments? I simply don't comment on gear I haven't used.
In reply to Dane1:
sorry to say that, but yes you do. Your website is full of “gear reviews” of gear which is mail ordered and then sent back.
And still they can be useful, sometimes!
> Comments? I simply don't comment on gear I haven't used.
sorry to say that, but yes you do. Your website is full of “gear reviews” of gear which is mail ordered and then sent back.
And still they can be useful, sometimes!
In reply to Karus:
"Two of the jackets were loaned to me for this review, and like the rest (that I found lacking) they were returned after a detailed comparison was made and the pictures taken. The other seven jackets were paid for on my credit card. 4 of the 9 were returned"
Blog isn't "full" of gear reviews I returned, just the 4 jackets.
But then I didn't comment based on a internet picture.
"Two of the jackets were loaned to me for this review, and like the rest (that I found lacking) they were returned after a detailed comparison was made and the pictures taken. The other seven jackets were paid for on my credit card. 4 of the 9 were returned"
Blog isn't "full" of gear reviews I returned, just the 4 jackets.
But then I didn't comment based on a internet picture.
Urban Rock in Reading have the full range of new Petzl Axes, Hammer and Adze versions!
In reply to Sheffield Sam:
Thanks for the tip, great range and even better prices. New Nomics ordered!
> Urban Rock in Reading have the full range of new Petzl Axes, Hammer and Adze versions!
Thanks for the tip, great range and even better prices. New Nomics ordered!
In reply to WILLS: On the new Nomics, it looks as though the hole that you'd use to attach springer leashes is in the middle of the grip. Is that really the case? Does that make it impractical to use with springer leashes?
In reply to Neil Adams:
The old style nomic also had the large hole in the grip. You could easily thread some thin tape through this to add an umbilical attachment. Some people also modified the lower griprest to add some cord.
The new style nomic has a hole already in the lower grip allowing a cord loop for umbilical attachment.
The old style nomic also had the large hole in the grip. You could easily thread some thin tape through this to add an umbilical attachment. Some people also modified the lower griprest to add some cord.
The new style nomic has a hole already in the lower grip allowing a cord loop for umbilical attachment.
In reply to Removed User: Thanks very much - that's very useful
In reply to WILLS:
in a shop 2 days ago and had the chance to play with the new and old quarks side by side - just on a bit of wall, but got some hangs and can openers etc in.
flipping heck!
they shouldve given em a different name - totally different tool. not updated, id say redesigned.
the swing angle was nicer, the new ones torqued better, much less bulk for slotting. in the real world the new ones must be great (the old ones were good too) - and i was effectively dry tooling in them which theyre not specific for.
id say they replace both the old ones and the aztars. would love to compar old and new ergos, but havent seen old ones around for years.
in a shop 2 days ago and had the chance to play with the new and old quarks side by side - just on a bit of wall, but got some hangs and can openers etc in.
flipping heck!
they shouldve given em a different name - totally different tool. not updated, id say redesigned.
the swing angle was nicer, the new ones torqued better, much less bulk for slotting. in the real world the new ones must be great (the old ones were good too) - and i was effectively dry tooling in them which theyre not specific for.
id say they replace both the old ones and the aztars. would love to compar old and new ergos, but havent seen old ones around for years.
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