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They are steep enough, take axes and crampons, can be lead or top roped, hooks and placements can be practised, small edges can be used as well. There is no torquing or stein pulling, but hell, the excercise of hanging upside down off your arms should be enough for a good session.
As long as common sense is applied and we all don't go off and climb the same tree and destroy it the damage done to the tree should be negligable.
It saves "establishing," new drytooling venues in choss holes and means that climbers all over the country have their winter training in the local woods.
What have I missed?
In reply to Southern Man:
Ok, so there is torquing and stein pulling (though I have no idea what a beech or crack willow looks like.)
A prize to the best tree dry tooling photo, to be awarded in one months time.
Ok, so there is torquing and stein pulling (though I have no idea what a beech or crack willow looks like.)
A prize to the best tree dry tooling photo, to be awarded in one months time.
In reply to jonnie3430: You are joking right?
In reply to jonnie3430:
There's just suck a photo at the back of the Rockfax DWS book. Check it out if you have a copy.
Seems a sensible medium on which to practice to me and easy to rig a top rope!
There's just suck a photo at the back of the Rockfax DWS book. Check it out if you have a copy.
Seems a sensible medium on which to practice to me and easy to rig a top rope!
In reply to ChrisHolloway1:
There seems to be a right movement on here at the moment for more dry tooling venues. I'm just suggesting a tree-mendous alternative.
What's to joke about? I can't think of any reasons why not to?
There seems to be a right movement on here at the moment for more dry tooling venues. I'm just suggesting a tree-mendous alternative.
What's to joke about? I can't think of any reasons why not to?
In reply to Southern Man: Yes but that tree looks pretty dead already. I'm sure this is a troll just waiting for a hippy tree hugger to bite, but negligible damage to a living organism through random attacks with spiked metal objects? ...Glad I'm not a tree!
In reply to jonnie3430:
Thats because you're stupid I mean come on are you honestly suggesting that people go out and sling top ropes up at their local forest? How is that any better than damage being done to rock?
> I can't think of any reasons why not to?
Thats because you're stupid I mean come on are you honestly suggesting that people go out and sling top ropes up at their local forest? How is that any better than damage being done to rock?
In reply to The Ivanator:
Ah, I assumed the OP meant dead trees. I would think aside from pissing people off, it would be pretty hard work climbing a living tree and would blunt your axes/points pretty quickly.
Ah, I assumed the OP meant dead trees. I would think aside from pissing people off, it would be pretty hard work climbing a living tree and would blunt your axes/points pretty quickly.
In reply to jonnie3430:
I suspect its a suggestion in the same vein to suggesting that sport climbers just climb indoors, personally. Without any real knowledge, my guess is that most people who dry tool see it as a pasttime in its own right in the same way that people practising any other branch of climbing do.
I suspect its a suggestion in the same vein to suggesting that sport climbers just climb indoors, personally. Without any real knowledge, my guess is that most people who dry tool see it as a pasttime in its own right in the same way that people practising any other branch of climbing do.
In reply to jonnie3430: This is a joke right? A few reasons why not, If the tree has a TPO on it it will be against the law, and the damage could result in a fine, the tree actually belongs to someone who will be mighty pissed off if you go hacking it about, stabbing a tree all over with spikey objects lets in infection (this is why arborists only use spurs on trees to be removed), ring barking by ropes running over branches leading to branch mortality...... I could go on, but this is a joke, right?
In reply to jonnie3430:
Im not an expert but i know that trees are vulnerable to fungus and infections, a bit like a person. If you puncture the bark you are creating an entry point for nasties. So that is a con from an environmental point of view.
Im not an expert but i know that trees are vulnerable to fungus and infections, a bit like a person. If you puncture the bark you are creating an entry point for nasties. So that is a con from an environmental point of view.
In reply to jonnie3430:
You are all barking up the wrong tree, I'm being serious.
No one gets up close and personal to trees in the way we do to rock, so pick and point marks wouldn't be noticed. Common sense would suggest that ring barking isn't good and should be avoided (the way we do when we are using a tree for an abseil,) I haven't a clue what a TPO is or was, one TLA too many.
Dry tooling competitions already use wood for the way it takes a pick or point, so it's already shown to be of interest to the dry toolers of the world. It was just a suggestion instead of driving up to Newtyle the next time (and who has been to Newtyle and not hit the trees at the base of the routes!?)
You are all barking up the wrong tree, I'm being serious.
No one gets up close and personal to trees in the way we do to rock, so pick and point marks wouldn't be noticed. Common sense would suggest that ring barking isn't good and should be avoided (the way we do when we are using a tree for an abseil,) I haven't a clue what a TPO is or was, one TLA too many.
Dry tooling competitions already use wood for the way it takes a pick or point, so it's already shown to be of interest to the dry toolers of the world. It was just a suggestion instead of driving up to Newtyle the next time (and who has been to Newtyle and not hit the trees at the base of the routes!?)
In reply to jonnie3430:
Erm...Tree surgeons? Foresters? Ecologists? Rangers? Animals? Birds?
> (In reply to jonnie3430)
>
> No one gets up close and personal to trees in the way we do to rock, so pick and point marks wouldn't be noticed.
>
> No one gets up close and personal to trees in the way we do to rock, so pick and point marks wouldn't be noticed.
Erm...Tree surgeons? Foresters? Ecologists? Rangers? Animals? Birds?
In reply to AlexxelA: Hippies? :-P
In reply to jonnie3430: I'm calling troll, either that or you have no sense what so ever. Either way I'm not wasting my time further with you
In reply to ChrisHolloway1:
You haven't contributed anything anyway, why bother posting in the first place?
You haven't contributed anything anyway, why bother posting in the first place?
In reply to jonnie3430:
Aside from your poor quality tree jokes, I could say the same to you?
> (In reply to ChrisHolloway1)
>
> You haven't contributed anything anyway, why bother posting in the first place?
>
> You haven't contributed anything anyway, why bother posting in the first place?
Aside from your poor quality tree jokes, I could say the same to you?
In reply to ChrisHolloway1:
It's my topic!! Really, deleting your posts and buggering off will be the most constructive thing you have brought to it.
It's my topic!! Really, deleting your posts and buggering off will be the most constructive thing you have brought to it.
In reply to jonnie3430: Ok then, so assuming your serious. I work at an outdoor centre, each week we have groups of kids in, and one of the most important thing we teach is caring for the environment. This usually includes all kinds of things. But lets assume we did a little nature walk and a Roaches trip.
At the Roaches: "Ok kids this is the Roaches, it's very important, climbing history, need to look after it, blah blah, oh and don't dry tool here ever!"
On the nature walk: "Ok kids this is an Oak tree, don't worry about looking after it though, infact I brought these ice axes, just go ahead and whack them into the trees, it doesn't matter"
Do you see the pointlessness of what you are saying, damage to the environment is not acceptable ever, besides the obvious damage to the trees with crampons and axes, you propose slinging a top rope over? Do you not think the abrasion from a rope would erode the tree branches over time if people were top roping trees all the time. Tree's are as much a part of the environment as crags, hills, anything.
At the Roaches: "Ok kids this is the Roaches, it's very important, climbing history, need to look after it, blah blah, oh and don't dry tool here ever!"
On the nature walk: "Ok kids this is an Oak tree, don't worry about looking after it though, infact I brought these ice axes, just go ahead and whack them into the trees, it doesn't matter"
Do you see the pointlessness of what you are saying, damage to the environment is not acceptable ever, besides the obvious damage to the trees with crampons and axes, you propose slinging a top rope over? Do you not think the abrasion from a rope would erode the tree branches over time if people were top roping trees all the time. Tree's are as much a part of the environment as crags, hills, anything.
In reply to jonnie3430:
Not too sure about dry tooling, but there a good few hard mixed climbs in Canada that use trees half way through, albeit dead ones.
Fi Murray on Caveman for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OmYUMVE5qk&feature=related
Not too sure about dry tooling, but there a good few hard mixed climbs in Canada that use trees half way through, albeit dead ones.
Fi Murray on Caveman for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OmYUMVE5qk&feature=related
In reply to jonnie3430: "dry tooling" sounds like a sadomasakistic sex act!
In reply to jonnie3430: Tree Preservation Order, look it up on the net. While we are at it i'm almost certain what you are proposing will be against the bylaws of most big land owners like the National Trust, the RSPB, Forestry Commission. In certain cases there is also a good chance you are in breach of the countryside and wildlife act. Also like most people have already pointed out, its very damaging to the tree. As an arborist I never wear spurs on a retention tree as laid out in BS 3998: 1989 and I also always use a cambian saver to protect the stem from rope damage. Your saying that its perfectly ok to dispense with all this at the weekend and hack the things to bits with my axes?
In reply to jonnie3430:
I don't personally see a problem with using trees as training aids, providing no damage is done, axes are easy to tape up (like dry tooling at an indoor wall) and instead of crampons wear trainers. It wont damage the tree any more than a child climbing it; providing you choose a hardwood tree with dense bark, and plenty of tough branches. I've personally done similar things in the summer months to keep up my fitness. Also I come from a tree surgeon background so I do know what I'm talking about with regards to damaging the tree etc.
If this was to be done people would obviously need to know what type of trees to do it on to prevent damage and also taking care not to cause needless damage nor climb during the nesting season. It's a plausible and interesting idea, although I think most people would prefer to stick to rock, (please make it chalk though!)
I don't personally see a problem with using trees as training aids, providing no damage is done, axes are easy to tape up (like dry tooling at an indoor wall) and instead of crampons wear trainers. It wont damage the tree any more than a child climbing it; providing you choose a hardwood tree with dense bark, and plenty of tough branches. I've personally done similar things in the summer months to keep up my fitness. Also I come from a tree surgeon background so I do know what I'm talking about with regards to damaging the tree etc.
If this was to be done people would obviously need to know what type of trees to do it on to prevent damage and also taking care not to cause needless damage nor climb during the nesting season. It's a plausible and interesting idea, although I think most people would prefer to stick to rock, (please make it chalk though!)
In reply to jonnie3430:
A maximum fine for damaging a tree under a preservation order is £20,000 per tree damaged. A "TPO" is tree preservation order. Many trees have them applied by council to protect against any damage or felling. Also trees within areas designated conservation areas have similar protection. A conservation area (which is very common) is an area designated by a local planning authority (could be rural, in a town or village etc). If you don't own the tree - do not damage it!
Climbing dead, dying or diseased trees is a pretty unwise thing to do unless you are an experienced arborist. Dead wood is highly likely to shed a limb or result in falling tree, probably resulting in death or very serious injury. Case studies on the H&S agency website for forestry operation incidents make informative/sobering reading. Also to correct above, dead or seasoned wood will blunt tools more quickly than green/living timber. Certainly a chainsaw blunts more quickly on old timber.
Tree surgeons do not use climbing irons (spikes) when pruning large trees, only when felling trees, as the damage caused by the spike can leave the tree liable to disease.
Unless you own the tree you intend to climb it is an act of vandalism. It is probably a dumb idea! I hope you get caught doing it.
A maximum fine for damaging a tree under a preservation order is £20,000 per tree damaged. A "TPO" is tree preservation order. Many trees have them applied by council to protect against any damage or felling. Also trees within areas designated conservation areas have similar protection. A conservation area (which is very common) is an area designated by a local planning authority (could be rural, in a town or village etc). If you don't own the tree - do not damage it!
Climbing dead, dying or diseased trees is a pretty unwise thing to do unless you are an experienced arborist. Dead wood is highly likely to shed a limb or result in falling tree, probably resulting in death or very serious injury. Case studies on the H&S agency website for forestry operation incidents make informative/sobering reading. Also to correct above, dead or seasoned wood will blunt tools more quickly than green/living timber. Certainly a chainsaw blunts more quickly on old timber.
Tree surgeons do not use climbing irons (spikes) when pruning large trees, only when felling trees, as the damage caused by the spike can leave the tree liable to disease.
Unless you own the tree you intend to climb it is an act of vandalism. It is probably a dumb idea! I hope you get caught doing it.
In reply to afradgley1:
And obviously not in an AOONB or in general nice areas...try you're back garden.
And obviously not in an AOONB or in general nice areas...try you're back garden.
In reply to jonnie3430: I think it's a terrible idea. You could end up killing off some grand old trees by doing that. I'm no tree expert and have no specailist knowledge on trees but hacking shit out of trees sounds really nasty and selfish. Would it not work if you found a dead oak tree and dry tooled on that? As a kid I had a mate whos dad used to take us shooting in the local woods with an air rifle, we used to shoot at stick-on targets we stuck onto the trunk of a dead oak tree, the tree is still there and looks sturdy.
And also at this time of year with trees full of hibernating Bats, if you kill or disturb them by placing your tools in any crack or hole in a tree you quite possibly will be arrested and fined for disturbing a hibernation roost. I believe the figure is £1k per bat.
They are a beautiful and endangered creatures. In this cold if they wake up they will die very quickly.
AK.
They are a beautiful and endangered creatures. In this cold if they wake up they will die very quickly.
AK.
In reply to jonnie3430: You would, in short kill the tree.
In reply to jonnie3430: This is all a bit out of hand here, classic ukc style : )
Lets all agree that climbing up living trees is out, being not only illegal but clearly unethical. Easy. The OP has a good point though, assuming he meant dead trees. Now dead trees are an important part of a forest ecosystem, and need to be treated with a degree of respect. That being said, a nice old solid standing dead tree can be perfect icefall training. I know people who have been training this way for years. I have been myself probably eight times this year, sorting out my technique and getting my head set for the winter season. There is one particular tree we use, a twin-trunked beauty with one dead trunk. It is well supported, has been dead for years, and overhangs by around two metres over ten or so metres of height. Laps on this tree with axes and monopoints are as good as winter training gets! People who see us tend to think its mad, but not wrong.
Dead trees are simply brilliant for icefall training! (covers face in anticipation of shit being thrown..)
Lets all agree that climbing up living trees is out, being not only illegal but clearly unethical. Easy. The OP has a good point though, assuming he meant dead trees. Now dead trees are an important part of a forest ecosystem, and need to be treated with a degree of respect. That being said, a nice old solid standing dead tree can be perfect icefall training. I know people who have been training this way for years. I have been myself probably eight times this year, sorting out my technique and getting my head set for the winter season. There is one particular tree we use, a twin-trunked beauty with one dead trunk. It is well supported, has been dead for years, and overhangs by around two metres over ten or so metres of height. Laps on this tree with axes and monopoints are as good as winter training gets! People who see us tend to think its mad, but not wrong.
Dead trees are simply brilliant for icefall training! (covers face in anticipation of shit being thrown..)
In reply to jonnie3430:
Wouldn't it be more sensible if all the toolers just fecked off to live in iceland or greenland or somewhere?
or am i missing something?
Wouldn't it be more sensible if all the toolers just fecked off to live in iceland or greenland or somewhere?
or am i missing something?
In reply to ChrisHolloway1: Oh dear - he got you ..hook line & sinker !
In reply to ChrisHolloway1:
No. it's true: he really doesn't know what a beech look like!
> (In reply to jonnie3430) You are joking right?
No. it's true: he really doesn't know what a beech look like!
In reply to jonnie3430:
A mate of mine was showing me his ice-climbing technique on a tree a long-time ago. He swung his axe into the bark then pulled it out stabbing himself just above the right eye, leaving a 3 inch gash. Seem fair really.
A mate of mine was showing me his ice-climbing technique on a tree a long-time ago. He swung his axe into the bark then pulled it out stabbing himself just above the right eye, leaving a 3 inch gash. Seem fair really.
In reply to Anonymous:
"TREE SURGEON KILLED FOR HARMING TREE."
A man has been arrested in the Peak District for killing a tree surgeon at work on National Trust property. In a statement he made to the press before he handed himself in he said "I left an anonymous threat on an internet forum telling them that I'd do this. This war is only their fault." Police believe the man may need psychiatric help.
"TREE SURGEON KILLED FOR HARMING TREE."
A man has been arrested in the Peak District for killing a tree surgeon at work on National Trust property. In a statement he made to the press before he handed himself in he said "I left an anonymous threat on an internet forum telling them that I'd do this. This war is only their fault." Police believe the man may need psychiatric help.
In reply to jonnie3430: Don't know if its still happens, but in the past (at least in the 1970s), residents at Allt na Guibhsaich (the Aberdeen University hut in Glen Muick) used to climb the large pines close to the hut with axes & crampons. Good training for nearby Lochnagar !
In reply to Doug:
I have two old-ish winter instruction books, including John Barry's excellent Snow and Ice Climbing, both of which recommend practicing on trees. Can't say I've ever done it, as I think I'd feel like a bit of a twirp.
Danny.
I have two old-ish winter instruction books, including John Barry's excellent Snow and Ice Climbing, both of which recommend practicing on trees. Can't say I've ever done it, as I think I'd feel like a bit of a twirp.
Danny.
In reply to jonnie3430: As far as TPO's go you could be found liable. Tree Preservation Orders can be made on one tree, or a group of trees. If you "wilfully damage" a tree with an order on it, or part of a group, it could be argued that you're liable. The fine is up to £20,000.
In addition it just seems a bit nobby.
That said it's hugely unlikely that anyone would ever prosecute.
In addition it just seems a bit nobby.
That said it's hugely unlikely that anyone would ever prosecute.
In reply to jonnie3430:
More to the point, why can't they just use the walls of their houses ? after all apparently they don't cause that much damage so their moms and dads can't object too much, can they ?
More to the point, why can't they just use the walls of their houses ? after all apparently they don't cause that much damage so their moms and dads can't object too much, can they ?
In reply to jonnie3430: Nice troll, anonymous threats of violence solicited within 24 hours - bingo!
In reply to jonnie3430: They probably do, apparently all sorts of things go on in Hampstead Heath after dark.
In reply to jonnie3430:
To root out the points of this topic:
Trees can be use for dry tooling practise, this has been done in the past and its been recommended in a book.
Wannabe tree toolers must be aware that it does harm the tree and you can be charged for damaging private or public trees. Dead trees are not going to be damaged as much as live ones, though they will blunt your tools more and can fall down.
Dry tooling should be done on things you own, such as trees and houses, therefore you bear the consequences of your actions.
To root out the points of this topic:
Trees can be use for dry tooling practise, this has been done in the past and its been recommended in a book.
Wannabe tree toolers must be aware that it does harm the tree and you can be charged for damaging private or public trees. Dead trees are not going to be damaged as much as live ones, though they will blunt your tools more and can fall down.
Dry tooling should be done on things you own, such as trees and houses, therefore you bear the consequences of your actions.
In reply to jonnie3430:
I know I'm years behind the game on this one but the video of Caveman is the first time I've ever actually seen anyone committing dry tooling and I have to say it was easily the most incompetent bit of aid climbing I've ever seen.
Then again, I failed on a couple of crimpy routes last summer because my fingers were too weak. I'm pretty sure I could hook my axes on them....
I know I'm years behind the game on this one but the video of Caveman is the first time I've ever actually seen anyone committing dry tooling and I have to say it was easily the most incompetent bit of aid climbing I've ever seen.
Then again, I failed on a couple of crimpy routes last summer because my fingers were too weak. I'm pretty sure I could hook my axes on them....
In reply to jonnie3430:
You're a complete idiot.
By the way, I have 'treetooled' in the past, but I soon gave it up as I quickly realised it makes a mess out of a beautiful living tree and introduces fungal infections. It doesn't matter if anyone can see it or not, or how legal it is: it's simply wrong.
You're a complete idiot.
By the way, I have 'treetooled' in the past, but I soon gave it up as I quickly realised it makes a mess out of a beautiful living tree and introduces fungal infections. It doesn't matter if anyone can see it or not, or how legal it is: it's simply wrong.
In reply to jonnie3430: i can understand you wishing to improve at dry tooling, afterall its something you and others obviously enjoy. However, a living tree?, madness!. From your photographs you look the sort to have a love of the great outdoors,, so why tool on trees???....at the end of the day you could have just gone off tooling, but you posted here, a troll??.... anyway, trees are a living entity ,part of our bioshepere , do you really wish to halm,inflict damage and/or possibly disease?...... go find a crag ,here are plenty out there. local councils do put presivatin orders on a lot of trees and rightly so. as an alteritive, how about making some kind of frame (a circit) from the fallen trees ?.. Do the living Tree, yourself and the planet a favour. hippy!!!!!
In reply to jonnie3430: because we use tools (not because we are tools )
In reply to jonnie3430:
Pretty simple; dry-toolers want to practice using their tools on rock (as per hard mixed). Trees are not rock; climbing them may have some value (although not for the tree), but it aint dry-tooling.
Pretty simple; dry-toolers want to practice using their tools on rock (as per hard mixed). Trees are not rock; climbing them may have some value (although not for the tree), but it aint dry-tooling.
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:
I think tree climbing (without using ironmongery!) is an incredibly enjoyable and worthwhile activity ... particularly beech trees, which often feature impressive crack lines when trunks grow closely together. Agree that it's not quite like rock climbing. The thing I find most intriguing about tree climbing is how the 'routes' change over the years as the tree grows and develops.
I think tree climbing (without using ironmongery!) is an incredibly enjoyable and worthwhile activity ... particularly beech trees, which often feature impressive crack lines when trunks grow closely together. Agree that it's not quite like rock climbing. The thing I find most intriguing about tree climbing is how the 'routes' change over the years as the tree grows and develops.
In reply to Only a hill: Think you'd need to be about 104 years old before you noticed any significant difference climbing a beech tree.
In reply to ChrisHolloway1:
Um, I don't think blanket statements like that help support an environment-positive mindset at all.
Just about everything we do damages the environment. certainly taking a group of kids to the Roaches each week will - non-renewable resources, carbon loading, wear-and-tear on the nevironment for a start.
The balance is about how much damage in how short a time is acceptable (and to whom?!).
The general view (including mine) is that dry-tooling trees would cause too much too quickly, but really it's only speed that separates it from the damage caused by climbers or walkers generally.
> I work at an outdoor centre, each week we have groups of kids in...and ... a Roaches trip.
> damage to the environment is not acceptable ever
Um, I don't think blanket statements like that help support an environment-positive mindset at all.
Just about everything we do damages the environment. certainly taking a group of kids to the Roaches each week will - non-renewable resources, carbon loading, wear-and-tear on the nevironment for a start.
The balance is about how much damage in how short a time is acceptable (and to whom?!).
The general view (including mine) is that dry-tooling trees would cause too much too quickly, but really it's only speed that separates it from the damage caused by climbers or walkers generally.
In reply to JJL: Why not use the underside of bridges?
In reply to JJL:
Sorry?
> Um, I don't think blanket statements like that help support an environment-positive mindset at all.
Sorry?
In reply to the weegy:
Rubbish! They change and grow by the year, pockets close up, cracks become narrower, branches thicken.
> (In reply to Only a hill) Think you'd need to be about 104 years old before you noticed any significant difference climbing a beech tree.
Rubbish! They change and grow by the year, pockets close up, cracks become narrower, branches thicken.
In reply to jonnie3430: Im pretty sure climbing a tree would be ok!! as long as you are not hacking bits off the same tree on a daily basis? trees heal and grow! just explain to the tree what you are doing and give it a big hug!!!! Happy days
In reply to jonnie3430:
Do I win a prize for this ?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=53157
> (In reply to Southern Man)
>
> A prize to the best tree dry tooling photo, to be awarded in one months time.
>
> A prize to the best tree dry tooling photo, to be awarded in one months time.
Do I win a prize for this ?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=53157
In reply to Only a hill:
I would suggest the symptoms you describe are Heart rot and the tree should be felled imediately, look out for fungal brackets as a good indication.
> Rubbish! They change and grow by the year, pockets close up, cracks become narrower, branches thicken.
I would suggest the symptoms you describe are Heart rot and the tree should be felled imediately, look out for fungal brackets as a good indication.
In reply to jonnie3430:
I'm guessing troll. If not, this horrifies me more than dry tooling rock. Tree surgeons would never use spikes on a living tree, damage to bark can cause tree death. I too own a cambium saver just so the rope drag doesn't damage bark.
I'm guessing troll. If not, this horrifies me more than dry tooling rock. Tree surgeons would never use spikes on a living tree, damage to bark can cause tree death. I too own a cambium saver just so the rope drag doesn't damage bark.
In reply to Pids:
>"Do I win a prize for this ?"
No, that's top roping and doesn't count. Why didn't you man up and lead it? Looks like there's plenty of nut placements in the rinkles in the bark.
>"Do I win a prize for this ?"
No, that's top roping and doesn't count. Why didn't you man up and lead it? Looks like there's plenty of nut placements in the rinkles in the bark.
In reply to JLS:
I did lead it initially and trailed the rope up - no nuts were placed though
> (In reply to Pids)
>
> >"Do I win a prize for this ?"
>
> No, that's top roping and doesn't count. Why didn't you man up and lead it? Looks like there's plenty of nut placements in the rinkles in the bark.
>
> >"Do I win a prize for this ?"
>
> No, that's top roping and doesn't count. Why didn't you man up and lead it? Looks like there's plenty of nut placements in the rinkles in the bark.
I did lead it initially and trailed the rope up - no nuts were placed though
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