UKC

In case you've missed the announcement, Ratho is now offering schmooling/fig fours climbing.

I have been pressing them to allow dry tooling during the winter months, especially with it being so cold and quiet in the arena. I was there last night and it was miserable. At least -9 and maybe 10 climbers tops, and really not a pleasant place to climb at the mo.

Whilst they've not gone as far as I would have liked, they are at least geared up for schmoolzes. Tiso are renting them out too. That's progress I guess.

Its been mentioned on their web site forum and on their facebook page, but they're not exactly shouting it from the rooftops. It would be good to show that there is interest in dry tooling at Ratho.

In reply to jacobfinn:

Good stuff J.

Is there any facility to use actual tools as opposed to these schmoolz/fig 4 things? I can see them getting you strong but I fail to see how they are any use whatsoever for developing technique. It's a very long time since I did any sketchy mixed, but I recall that placing and pulling on a pick on even an incut ledge is a way more delicate matter than swinging about Tarzan style hung from a rubber loop slung around a big resin jug.

Cheers

S

In reply to Removed User: I'm trying hard to put a positive spin on this

S, at the moment there is nowhere to actually get axes onto the walls.

Every winter its the same - freezing and dead. To my mind its an obvious step to dedicate some space for dry tooling. And maybe if some effort was put into promoting it, they might actually generate some business for the place. There's the potential for tuition, testing out axes before you buy them etc etc.

Instead all of the potential problems with dry tooling have been highlighted and have been deemed insurmountable. To be honest I just get the impression that they can't be bothered with it all.

The offer of giving the mobile tower over to schmoolz was laughable: really just an insulting offer on their part. Tall climbers would have been up it in 2 moves. Having some dedicated wall space on an as-required basis is much better, but without people knowing about it, the whole project is going to come to nothing.

And by doing the minimum, not promoting it and not putting any effort in, Ratho can say in February that it was a non-starter.

Its such a shame as the EICA has got such huge potential for dry tooling. Last night was typical of the temperature over the past few weeks (I was warmer climbing on the crag than at Ratho) and the miserable attendance. Maybe they really are happy with no-one climbing there in the winter? Who knows. No-one I've talked to has said its enjoyable climbing at the moment. I was told that there is a "slight dip" in attendance in the winter, but I guess my interpretation of "slight dip" is different from theirs.

I'm sure that there would be sufficient interest to get tooling punters in the door, but it requires some effort, and the interest from Ratho is just not there.

Ah well, I tried.

Someone else want to take up the baton?

In reply to jacobfinn:

>Tall climbers would have been up it in 2 moves.

Yeh yeh. Those two moves would be a hell of a lot harder than the four moves required by the shortarses.

In reply to jacobfinn:

We have started proper dry tooling at Rock Over in Manchester, we have just put a piece of hardboard between the hold and the wall to protect the wall, granted the holds get trashed but we have accepted this and are using old/undesirable holds, crap holds for climbing on can ake good dry tololing holds!! as for bouldering, we just rope off an area and limit numbers to ensure safety, roped climbs require some form of leashes, so far this has worked a treat!

To be honest it sounds like they are just not interested, all it takes to get over health and safety, in surance etc. is a little bit of thought and effort!

Simon

In reply to Removed User: so you tried ? good effort couse i saw the pathetic totem pole and spat the dummy good and proper

In reply to maybe_si: do you think you could move up north a bit? and convince ratho to dig their heads out their butts?

In reply to melville18:

ha, id love to move north and provide you with some dry tooling so you could give me some money!!! you are welcome to mention Rock Over Climbing to them at Ratho and let them know that we are doing it properly, if they want any advice about risk assessments/insurance etc.

check out our photos on our facebook page!

In reply to jacobfinn:

I didn't want to appear glib or dismissive in my earlier posts, it is good that you are trying to convince them to provide such a facility, one that would probably get more punters through their doors.

Signing off now before my booze addled brain gets me in bother.

Night night.

In reply to jacobfinn: We were recently up for the final round of the dry tooling series and were given 'the tower' to demo Fig 4 on. You are right, it is completely unsuitable for anything other than beginner sessions and not at all what the tool was designed for. One of the overhanging free standing boulders would have been more suitable but, even though no sharp picks are involved, a lump of wood can still do a lot of damage if not careful! I can understand why they want to take their time on this, frustrating as it may be. On the positive side the guys at Ratho we spoke to were keen on fitting them in, and as you say, if there is demand then things can happen. We have heard of good things happening at places such as Mile End, The Westway, The Castle, The Nottingham Climbing Centre, The Mill Adventure Centre, The Edge the Beacon and it looks like more are being added here such as Rock Over. In all these cases it has been as the result of activists such as yourself, and with the recent articles published by the Climb and Climber I guess we are just at the beginning of a change.

In reply to alpkid: Interesting.

If so many other walls can work out ways of doing this, then I don't understand why Ratho are finding it so hard. The extremely quiet launch of schmoolz climbing at the EICA suggests to me that they are not keen to push Schmoolz/Figfours, and definitely not on dry tooling. Even though they proved that dry tooling was something that could be organised there afer recently hosting the final round of the STS.

A quick look at the Rock Over web site shows what can be done - http://www.rockoverclimbing.co.uk/news/drytooling-nights/ - and this is exactly what should be happening at Ratho.

As a user of the climbing centre, there is a limit to what I can do. I've posted on UKC because they said that they couldn't. I'm an organiser of an internet based walking/climbing club with nearly 900 members, and am trying to organise a meetup at Ratho. I've talked to other climbers from different clubs about it.

But...

Unless they engage with this, its never going to happen. Schmoolz/Figfours is fine now, but its dry tooling that I really want.

I would ask UKC users to start asking for dry tooling at Ratho too. The more interest that there is, the more likely they will start to engage with the idea.

In reply to jacobfinn:

Hi Jacobfinn

There are two areas cordoned off, the tower for short problems and for introducing people to the Schmooling/ Fig 4 concept, and currently the area to the right of the top rope wall (as you know from your conversation with Pamela we can cordon an area off for you when required subject to how busy we are). We have had a few Schmoolz users and most of them have been very pleased with the developments so far.

We are in the process of writing an article on Schmooling for scottish Mountaineer magazine, and putting a premier post on UKC, so please don't think that we aren't actively promoting this activity!

Alpkid's references were to other walls providing Schmooling/ Fig 4 areas and are broadly similar to what we are offering.

A couple of walls such as The Foundry and Rockover are offering some supervised dry tooling sessions at additional cost - is this something you (and anyone else) would be interested in?

P.S. Did you do the green up the tower? It defeated a couple of seasoned dry toolers last week (although they may have been pumped from trying the longer lines by the entrance to the arena!)

In reply to Ratho - EICA:

Yes!

If it takes paying for supervised sessions to get dry tooling organised, then why not go down this route? What is stopping you doing this?

In reply to jacobfinn:

Frankly, lack of interest. What convinces you there is such a huge demand, other than just because you'd like it?

In reply to Fraser: If I thought that it was just me interested, I would have given up weeks ago.

In reply to Ratho - EICA: i wouldnt mind having to pay extra for sessions, although schmoolz are ok i would much prefer to use the real thing.

In reply to Ratho - EICA and Jacobfinn:

I have used the tooling facility at Ratho a few times now and to be honest I think its good fun, good for strength training and good as you can wear gloves and not touch the freezing cold handholds.

I will confirm what Nic/Ratho states above on Tuesday (21st)I was offered that I could request any area to be cordoned off for tooling as it was quiet by Pamela?? (If Pamela's the person I met at Benny Beg with the kids Group)but felt the tower was enough at the moment for my ability.


That green route is hard I have tried it six times now with no success even with you (Nic) watching and helping.

To Jacobfinn

If it helps I would also like to see a proper dry tooling area at Ratho, I think it would help simulate more winter punters coming to Ratho and could easily be the best dry tooling arena in Scotland if not the UK.

In a perfect world it would have some nice crack lines to try the art of torqueing and would be a great aid for training to do winter mixed routes.

Anyway thanks to the Ratho team for starting the tooling areas lets hope its a success and another step in the continued improvement I see at Ratho every week.

SDB

In reply to ShinyDiscoBalls:


This is where I have been coming from. There is space to offer dry tooling, and this would add another string to Ratho's bow, especially at a time of year when attendance is down due to cold weather.

I'm sure that with a bit of advertising, and some work to generate interest, be that involving a "name" offering coaching sessions or instructor-led groups, dry tooling would take off.