UKC

The few who questioned whether Adam Ondra had taken onsighting into the next realm should now stand corrected. Adam followed up his two 8c+ onsights from the weekend, with two more, Powerade at Vadiello and El templo del café at Alquezar. Not content with this he continued by making a 2nd go ascent...

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=60862

In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC: nope still not corrected as other have climbed the same grade.when he does a 9a onsight,fair enough i will stand corrected but now i dont think so.

some questions-when did 8b+ first get onsighted and what was the hardest redpoint grade back then?how does that correlate with the hardest onsights and redpoints of today?im guessing the gap is still the same so its only logical that its not really a massive leap over what others have done.im not trying to say it isnt impressive,ofcourse it is,i dont imagine ever doing an 8c+ let alone onsighting one but for the definition you use of "the next realm" would mean doing something way harder than anyone else and this just isnt the case.

In reply to beastofackworth: 1995 Elie Chevieux Massey Ferguson?

In reply to Robertostallioni: was pretty sure it was ellie and the grade but wasnt sure the route or year.so 2 grades harder in 16 years-hmmm not exactly massive progress is it?definately men havent improved anywhere near the level that woman have!

In reply to beastofackworth:
I disagree - 3 8c+'s in a day , 2 onsight, 1 second go at a time when only one other climber has ever onsighted 8c+ is utterly outstanding, never mind the fact that he onsighted 2 more 8c+s at the weekend.

Climbing is not just about the number its about the style

In reply to Ian Patterson: disagree away,im just giving my oppinion-same as you

In reply to beastofackworth:

Best get too it then. Sure you can show Ondra the way. (Sigh)

In reply to Adam Lincoln: yawns at your sigh

In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:

Respect, really inspiring!!

Remember El Tempo Café was first given a grade of 9a but was later downgraded by Magnus Mitdboe!

To climb four 8c+ onsight in one week is a big step forward in climbing.

In reply to beastofackworth:

One other has climbed the same grade you mean.

Did Patxi then go on to onsight three more in as many days? Plus another one second go, as well as an 8c, 8b+ and 8b onsight in amongst?
If you don't think this is the "next realm" or the "next generation" at work or whatever you want to call it then you must be tripping!

In reply to beastofackworth:

Maybe less time yawning and more time getting out climbing/training if you are going to show Ondra that 8c+ isn't that impressive any more.

Then again, with 7a+ as your best onsight level, i reckon he might be worried.

Calm down ladies. The point beastofackworth is making is that its not a new level in terms of grade onsighted. The point everyone else is making is that multiple ascents of this grade over a trip is a new level of performance. His current form card indicates a 9a onsight is possible which is not unexciting.

In reply to beastofackworth: Tough crowd.... If this isn't news I don't know what is. I guess Ondra needs to get back on the beastmaker and come back when he does something significant. There's no pleasing some people, I'm surprised no one asked what he's done on grit.

In reply to shark:

Oh i doubt BOA will be impressed.

In reply to Adam Lincoln: not wanting to insult the level of your intellect Adam but have you read my posts?did I state anywhere that it's wasn't
Impressive?I actually even stated that it was impressive I just doubted that it wasmy the massive leap in standards that the op suggested.I also never stated that I could climb a hard as ondra or could show him how he should be climbing so atleast get your facts right rather than just having a go because you can't think of anything better to say <winks>
seems as though this forum isn't about having your own opinion anymore,well not if it doesn't echo your own eh Adam?

In reply to all on this page

I tell what hasn't taken a big leap is the level the young guns go when sniping at each other. personally I think on sighting 8c+ is pretty remarkable. Hats off Mr Ondra. Why dont you just go out and climb, enjoy the fresh air. Leave th forum page for people with something interesting to say like "I just onsighted four 8c+ last week.

In reply to beastofackworth: i feel everybody's point is you were that guy looking for a way to bring some sort of negativity. The fact that people need to make an attempt to lessen the value of his accomplishments is retarded. Like people hating on a ten year old for using a smaller hold to bypass a sequence on a v10. If you need to hate then your a fool.

In reply to beastofackworth:

As others have said, you decided to bring some negativity to the news report with your pedantic comments about Bjorn's choice of wording. If he'd said "Ondra onsights a harder grade than anyone else has before" then I'd agree that you had a point. But he didn't. He said that Ondra has taken hard onsighting to a "new realm". You can interpret that however you want, and most people seem to agree that this number of 8c+ onsights in such a short space of time is just that.

In reply to beastofackworth:

by your "logic" if he onsighted 50 8c+'s in a day that still wouldn't be taking it to the next realm since one other person has climbed at that grade. what if he was wearing boxing gloves and roller skates?

In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC: What an achievement. That really is stunning.

My only gripe the other day was that the report implied he was doing something that hadn't been done before. That seemed a bit harsh when Patxi had done both of the routes in the same style.

Clearly, 8c+ onsight isn't near his limit, and he's going to raise the bar a lot further. 3 in a day. Gobsmacking.

In reply to GDes:
I think thats a bit of unclear reporting, as far as I can tell Patxi has 'only' onsighted Bizi euskaraz. I think he may also have onsighted another 8c(+) somewhere else. Report should probably read

'The 8c+'s were Kidetasunaren balio erantsia and Bizi euskaraz, the second of which previously has been done in the same style by Patxi Usobiaga.'

From a completely impartial position:

BOA did not (originally) insult anyone. He (and others) made it perfectly clear he thought the achievement was "impressive", all he was commenting on was the way in which the news was reported. And to be honest it is completely subjective as to what progress in any sport constitutes.

Is it remarkable in 100m sprinting if someone equals the World record twice in one day? Well, yes it would be but it's not a new world record so would it be considered a "new realm"? Who knows?

I think most/everyone would agree that Ondra's run constitutes progress but whether or not it is a "new realm" (whatever that means!) is very debatable. By offering his opinion on a news piece which practically provoked a response from any dissenters (ie: "The few who questioned whether Adam Ondra had taken onsighting into the next realm should now stand corrected.") BOA was merely stating an opinion which criticised no one except perhaps Bjorn Pohl.

In my opinion:
A great many of the Low-down reports have been very subjective and given they are placed in UKC News the use of subjective/opinionated language really should be avoided. Take the following quote:
"The few who questioned whether Adam Ondra had taken onsighting into the next realm should now stand corrected."

That is purely opinion. I would ask Bjorn Pohl to try to remain more objective in future, as on the whole I do enjoy his almost real-time reporting.

In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdfP5aoFEvQ&feature=player_embedded

In reply to Quarryboy: He makes it look so easy

Generally I'm with BOA, I've been flamed before for comments that were wrongly perceived to be "negative" about AO.

What he's done is very impressive for us mortals but how impressive is it for him? 8c+ is 3 grades below his repoint best (unless he's done 9b+).

I've not got much sport-climbing experience so somebody tell me - is on-sighting 2 routes in a day that are 3 grades below your redpoint best impressive. I know that from a trad point of view this isn't such a big deal (e.g. on-sighting 2 E2s if you headpointed E5) but is this also the case for sport.

And please don't come back with comments like "you just don't realise how hard 8c+ is" - I've already said it's impressive, that's not in dispute.

In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:

Interview here http://www.planetmountain.com/english/News/shownews1.lasso?keyid=37961

In reply to Michael Hood:


Yes it is. Generally +3 grades from onsight to redpoint is a ball park average for most climbers who are equally good at onsighting and redpointing, and assuming a climber is trying equally hard with both, an onsight of 'RP best - 3' would be a very impressive effort irrespective of what level they were operating at.

When that grade is 8c+ and currently the top end of what has been onsighted in the world, ever, and someone does four in a week plus one 2nd go, yes I would say that 'a new level' was not excessive hyperbole.

E grades don't really correlate 1 to 1 with french grades, from a glance at the rockfax grade comparison chart, well protected E2 to well protected E5 is like 6a+ to 7a+.

I wonder who puts the clips in for him to onsight with? Any other 8c+ climbers about that day who volunteered?

In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC: well done Adam. Someone, once, told me climbers are very selfish, reading around, I might add ... and envious!

I bet adam ondra's dad is harder than the BOA's dad

In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC: Are the routes he did 'soft' for the grade, or well established 'solid at the grade' routes?