/ NEWS: FRI NIGHT VID: James Pearson - Grit Project - HXS 7a

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UKC News - on 18 Mar 2011
James Pearson on first ascent of The Return of the Jedi (HXS 7a) Matlock Bank Quarry, 4 kbAt the end of last year James Pearson made a fleeting visit back to his native Peak District to climb an old gritstone project.

The line - a sharp arete in Matlock Bank Quarry is now called Return of the Jedi and features F8a+ climbing with poor protection and a bad landing.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=61066

Franco Cookson on 18 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News:


Looks E12
remus - on 18 Mar 2011
In reply to Franco Cookson: Looks more H7 to me.

Looks like a sweet line, good effort to get it after so long, as well.
johncoxmysteriously - on 18 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News:

>Good luck with the project in the UK, James wherever it is.

I'm thinking his project was in Matlock Bank Quarry, or am I missing someone's point.

Anyway, looks pretty good to me. JP can't half be a silly boy, though, with this quote about 'as much or as little as you need to know'. Why not just say he's learned from the past and prefers not to give a grade?

jcm

Jonny2vests - on 18 Mar 2011
In reply to Franco Cookson:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
>
> Looks E12

Lol.
Jonny2vests - on 18 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News:

I think Revenge of the Sith would be a better title. Seeing as it's grit and all.

That blank face to the right might make a suitable companion route with that title.

Well done James. MTFBWY.
jonathan shepherd - on 18 Mar 2011
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to UKC News)

> I'm thinking his project was in Matlock Bank Quarry, or am I missing someone's point.

I thought that too but it depends when he did the interview with ukc, the route was done in december but i assume the interview was recently so he must have another project somewhere.

McBirdy - on 18 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=60438

= boulder

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=61066

= route?

JP looks to have found and climbed a fine boulder problem from where I'm sitting.
In reply to UKC News:

Looks a lot more serious than another famous HXS 7a!


Chris
Adam Lincoln - on 18 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=60438
>
> = boulder
>
> http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=61066
>
> = route?
>
> JP looks to have found and climbed a fine boulder problem from where I'm sitting.

You will be nipping in for the second ascent then...

jon on 18 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:
> (In reply to UKC News)
> JP looks to have found and climbed a fine boulder problem from where I'm sitting.


"... from where I'm sitting." Absolute classic, Mr Darvil.
jezb1 - on 18 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News: He makes it look very easy.

Bit short though......
Colm_Shannon on 18 Mar 2011 - 86-41-111-79-dynamic.b-ras2.lmk.limerick.eircom.net
In reply to McBendy: To be fair, we're not shown the entire route, only the crux start. Nor can we see how bad the landing is. Anyway, if you applied that mentality to grit in general, I'd wonder how many routes would be left ;-) Ambrosia is a sport route they decided not to bolt. Ha.

Pain in the ass with his grading though. Just assume people will use a mat or two and give a grade. No ones going to use millions of mats. If your routes so short that mats can make it safer its your problem, no point refusing to use them in order to justiy your exaggerated gradings. Give it a proper trad grade, or give it a boudering grade. My opinion :-)
ANC on 18 Mar 2011
Rather like the way the base of the crag isnt shown to make it seem like it could be a bit longer than it looks... the illusion isnt really working...its not butter milks and not a boulder exactly but i dont think he even reached much above 15 hand movements...

New grade E(JP)14...?
Jon Ratcliffe - on 18 Mar 2011
In reply to ANC: I was one off those who laughed at the whole E13 grade when i first heard it for WOL but the level of cynicism on here about this route is quite frankly quite ugly and pathetic in my opinion. The 'from where I'm sitting' comment says it all. I mean, you get a vid to watch of a hard route and still you moan, and then compare the ethics of two different areas in two different countries! Brilliant! No wonder the likes of Mikey Page shy away from publicity.
johncoxmysteriously - on 18 Mar 2011
In reply to chummer:

Well said.

And while I'm at it this boulder problem/route oneupmanship is also pretty silly. The Americans can call Kevin J's and others' climbs what they like, and we can call the grit climbs what we like, but I think we'll both find the ground feels the same when we hit it.

This Enzo Oddo kid doesn't look bad. Wonder what he's done on grit - well, probably nothing, but it would be interesting if he came over here and tried.

jcm
masonwoods101 - on 18 Mar 2011
In reply to ANC: did you even look at the blog link he posted man? theres a photo showing "the line and the landing"
Jonny2vests - on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to ANC:

Bore off.
McBirdy - on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News:

The photos in the rolling flash banned on 'JP's homepage are very revealing. I think they confirm what a lot us have suspected is the case for some time now:

http://realbigpimp.in/
McBirdy - on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:

Oh wait - it gets better. Have a look at his 'lifestyle portfolio':

http://realbigpimp.in/?page_id=852#/lifestyle-portfolio/

FFS

ads.ukclimbing.com
McBirdy - on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to a now deleted post from @ndyM@rsh@ll:

I did NOT suggest that the grade of '... Jedi' was wrong and I did NOT call him an ars#hole. Re-read the thread. You are confusing me with someone else. For the record, having seen the blog pictures of the landing I can see where he's coming from.

Regarding your point about his website - I think that's a matter of opinion.
jon on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:
> (In reply to McBendy)
>
> Oh wait - it gets better. Have a look at his 'lifestyle portfolio':
>
> http://realbigpimp.in/?page_id=852#/lifestyle-portfolio/
>
> FFS

So what are you saying? Does that upset you:

1. More than a 4x4.
2. Less than a 4x4.
3. About the same.
@ndyM@rsh@ll - on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy: That's why i deleted it.
McBirdy - on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to McBendy)
> [...]
>
> So what are you saying? Does that upset you:
>
> 1. More than a 4x4.
> 2. Less than a 4x4.
> 3. About the same.

2. Less than a 4x4. In fact, it doesn't upset me at all. The guy can act however he likes. I just think those photos tell a story.
jon on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:
> (In reply to jon)
> [...]
> I just think those photos tell a story.

Go on. Tell me, I'm having difficulty understanding you.

In reply to UKC News: Bon résultat Keen Yoof. Ignorer la FUDS négative écrit sur ​​ce forum
McBirdy - on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

Vous n'êtes pas la seule personne qui peut parler français. J'avoue cependant que j'ai eu à Google les mots français pour trouble de la personnalité narcissique
In reply to McBendy:
> (In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat)
>
> Vous n'êtes pas la seule personne qui peut parler français.

Je serais très surpris si j'étais le seul au monde qui pouvait s'exprimer en français!

ark05 - on 19 Mar 2011

i thought HXS was meant for hard, loose climbs which are constantly changing so cant be given a proper grade... like most of the stuff on the llyn... this seems like it should get a trad/boulder grade
jon on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:
> (In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat)
>
> Vous n'êtes pas la seule personne qui peut parler français. J'avoue cependant que j'ai eu à Google les mots français pour trouble de la personnalité narcissique


So what are you saying? I'm sorry, I don't speak French.
McBirdy - on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to McBendy)
> [...]
>
> So what are you saying? I'm sorry, I don't speak French.

Location
Vallorcine and Villeperdrix (F)

UKC Volunteer
Moderator for 7 crags: Barberine Gietroz, Aiguilles Rouges, La Grande Falaise du Passet, Bear Crag, Dike Wall, Les Perrons de Vallorcine, Le Couteray

http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=2371

Personal website:
http://www.trekkinginthealps.com/uiagmtrips.htm

Seems unlikely that you haven't picked up the odd word or two...

I've posted a link to those photos. People can conclude what they like. Much like fashion - I think opinions will reflect personal taste. We live in an interesting and diverse world.
jon on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:

I thought you were brave enough to say what you mean, Ben, rather than just making insinuations. Evidently I was mistaken.
Jayboy - on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News: Someone please tell me where the HXS grade is??
chris j on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to adamki: It also gets used in an "it's hard but I'm not sure how serious it is and don't want to commit to an E number" sort of way, I seem to remember Steve Mac gave Elder Crack arete HXS 7a when he first lead it.
Ramon Marin - on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:

hahah that's what most american climbers do and cos James is brit he gets the stick. He's an awesome climber any way you look at it.
Enty - on 19 Mar 2011
McBendy:
> (In reply to jon)
> [...]
> I just think those photos tell a story.

Go on. Tell me, I'm having difficulty understanding you.

Jon,

The photos tell me that James is pretty cool, he's a good climber and his bird is fit.

As for your photo bendy, well the chances of having a fit bird......mmmm....not sure ;-)


E

hexcentric - on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to Enty:
> McBendy:
>
> As for your photo bendy, well the chances of having a fit bird......mmmm....not sure ;-)

His "bird" is quite nice actually.....

>
> E

Enty - on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to hexcentric:

I'll let him off then.

E
Franco Cookson on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News:

In all seriousness this is great effort of a good, bouldery E8ish 7a. Good effort Mr Pearson.
Jonny2vests - on 19 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:
> (In reply to jon)
> [...]
>
> 2. Less than a 4x4. In fact, it doesn't upset me at all. The guy can act however he likes. I just think those photos tell a story.

Your posts tell a story.
ads.ukclimbing.com
CragRat11 - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News: Your all a bunch of moaning, self righteous, judgemental buggers. Leave the guy alone for gods sake. Have you got nothing better to do? Can't people just enjoy the video and keep their opinions to themselves?
In reply to CragRat11:
> (In reply to UKC News) Your all a bunch of moaning, self righteous, judgemental buggers. Leave the guy alone for gods sake. Have you got nothing better to do? Can't people just enjoy the video and keep their opinions to themselves?

Je suppose que non!
Michael Ryan - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to CragRat11:
> (In reply to UKC News) Your all a bunch of moaning, self righteous, judgemental buggers. Leave the guy alone for gods sake. Have you got nothing better to do? Can't people just enjoy the video and keep their opinions to themselves?

You and chummer need to settle down.

All this throwing mud you write the level of cynicism on here about this route is quite frankly quite ugly and pathetic in my opinion and a bunch of moaning, self righteous, judgemental buggers.

No one else on this thread came out with such vitriol.

There's was only one post questioning the grade/height, and understandably a couple of posts taking the micky a bit because of the E12 grade. Everything else was positive and enquiring.

It is also healthy to discuss how we grade pre-practised routes/highball boulder problems whether they are in Bishop or in some quarry near Matlock.

I'm sure James - whose climbing is going from strength to strength - can take most comments about his climbing whether positive or critical, he is a professional climber who is in the limelight and he blogs extensively about his climbing and actively solicits comments and discussion.

Good on James I say.

Mick

Niall Grimes - on 20 Mar 2011
Just a little bit about the line (I doubt many UKCers have been to MBQ) but it really is a fine line, very impressive indeed. I don't remember the landing being that hellish (could be wrong and haven't looked at the pics) but I believe the climbing is very hard. I told Pete Whittaker about this before the Froggatt guide was done and there was a move on it he couldn't top rope (admittedly only on one visit and I'm not sure about the conditions, but still).

This isn't meant to take anything away from Pete, just giving an indication of how hard the climbing is. Incidentally Pete's flash of James' other route there, Power of the Dark Side (E8 - now that's a bad landing) must be one of the most impressive flashes on grit so far.
CragRat11 - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC: Its nothing to do with the route comments, its the fact that people feel its ok to browse through all the photos on his website, post up links then pick the guy apart in public. The forum stops being about James' ability as a climber and becomes a character assassination. Like it does so often on here. Personally i don't feel that that is a particularly constructive discussion about the video that you have featured on your website.
Jimbo W on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Well done James and cheers for the vid!
jon on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to CragRat11:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC) ... its the fact that people feel its ok to browse through all the photos on his website, post up links then pick the guy apart in public. The forum stops being about James' ability as a climber and becomes a character assassination.

I couldn't agree more, and if you look back you'll see it wasn't 'people', it was one person. Which is why Enty and I were having a go at him.
sheavi07 - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to CragRat11:
Agree with Chummer & yourself. Well done to JP.
Michael Ryan - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to CragRat11:

As Jon said, it was one person and all they said was that it looked like a highball boulder problem.

So there is no evidence of character assassination or James's ability of a climber.

There is evidence of a couple of people having a hissy fit however and that is par for the course.
CragRat11 - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC: Whatever Mick.
McBirdy - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to CragRat11:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC) Its nothing to do with the route comments, its the fact that people feel its ok to browse through all the photos on his website, post up links then pick the guy apart in public. The forum stops being about James' ability as a climber and becomes a character assassination.

Seeing as some people are failing to read between the lines, and seeing as Jon objects to my lack of frankness, I'll be frank:

My personal view is that the series of bizarre, posing self-portraits (topless, aviators, staring moodily into the distance etc) suggest that the man has a rather high opinion of himself, perhaps even bordering on unhealthy. Perhaps I'm wrong and these are tongue-in-cheek - I don't know the guy - but if he seriously thinks that his 'lifestyle gallery' might not come across as a bit odd then I'd suggest he has narcissism issues. That would certainly fit with the track record over overgrading etc, and hence is relevant IMO.

None of this takes anything away from the guy's obvious talent as a climber.
Simon Caldwell - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:

From where I sit (in an armchair) it's the description of the first one as a boulder problem that's questionable!
McBirdy - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to Toreador:

I agree!
Aonach - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:
Agree.
I was inclined to think his overgrading was naive exuberance and bad advice.
Having seen those galleries I'd say he has significant issues.
Solipsism, egomania...that kind of thing.
Adam Lincoln - on 20 Mar 2011
All you guys slating James and mocking his website. He is the one travelling the world living the dream. If he has to put up a few cheesy pics on his website, then so be it. He is the one having the last laugh here!

Adam Lincoln - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to Aonach:
> Having seen those galleries I'd say he has significant issues.
> Solipsism, egomania...that kind of thing.

If you had ever met James, you would see you are so far from the truth its funny.

Franco Cookson on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to Adam Lincoln:

Most climbers are pretty egotistical, they just hide it.
Enty - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
> All you guys slating James and mocking his website. He is the one travelling the world living the dream. If he has to put up a few cheesy pics on his website, then so be it. He is the one having the last laugh here!

Bang on there Adam.

E

Enty - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to Franco Cookson:
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
>
> Most climbers are pretty egotistical, they just hide it.

Those are the ones who also have jobs Franco.

E

Michael Ryan - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to Adam Lincoln:

> living the dream.

What a horrible phrase.

I was once in an office in a skyscraper in Manhattan. On the next floor above me was the HQ of a famous model agency, out the window I could see all of Manhattan and the Empire State building.

It was a job interview for an editors job, $80,000 a year, expenses, sitting in this chair overlooking the world's most exciting city.

The interview went well, I was offered the job and a re-location package.

The CEO of the company then asked me. "Mick? Are you living the dream?"

Mentally I cringed and in my head I told him to @%£$ of&.

I refused the job offer.

Living the dream! What a shallow, offensive, illogical and unrealistic phrase. Used by wannabes, plastic people, and those seduced by fame, celebrity and brand logos.

M



ads.ukclimbing.com
Adam Lincoln - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:

> Living the dream! What a shallow, offensive, illogical and unrealistic phrase. Used by wannabes, plastic people, and those seduced by fame, celebrity and brand logos.

No, to me, living the dream means doing what you want, when you want, and sticking two fingers up to the world. Though i can see how the image of that interview situation would sway the meaning of it for you.
bouldery bits - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:

I'm living the dream on UKC.
bouldery bits - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Actually... Living the dream's a great route name...
jon on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to bouldery bits:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> Actually... Living the dream's a great route name...

I just typed 'My next new route might just be called that', but didn't send it cos I was afraid Mick would shout at me...

Boar of Badenoch - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:
> (In reply to CragRat11)
> [...]
>
> Seeing as some people are failing to read between the lines, and seeing as Jon objects to my lack of frankness, I'll be frank:
>
> My personal view is that the series of bizarre, posing self-portraits (topless, aviators, staring moodily into the distance etc) suggest that the man has a rather high opinion of himself, perhaps even bordering on unhealthy. Perhaps I'm wrong and these are tongue-in-cheek - I don't know the guy - but if he seriously thinks that his 'lifestyle gallery' might not come across as a bit odd then I'd suggest he has narcissism issues. That would certainly fit with the track record over overgrading etc, and hence is relevant IMO.
>
> None of this takes anything away from the guy's obvious talent as a climber.

Or maybe he just got employed an expensive PR person after the E12 thing, haha...
Offwidth - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Well done James, another grit project has bitten the dust. Loving the cheesy vid.
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
>
> [...]
>
> What a horrible phrase.

Your opinion obviously
>
> Living the dream! What a shallow, offensive, illogical and unrealistic phrase. Used by wannabes, plastic people, and those seduced by fame, celebrity and brand logos.

And what a limited belief of its use.

I know of someone that once said his dream was to walk again. He did. He said that the drive to walk was motivation. Once he did he said he was living a dream he wasn't sure he could achieve. Which category does he fit in Mick? Plastic? Wannabe? Or just a guy that fought for this country and got injured?
liz j on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to Franco Cookson:
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
>
> Most climbers are pretty egotistical, they just hide it.

Except you of course!!
Franco Cookson on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to liz j:

Quite proud of my Ego really. I have a moderate, healthy Ego, which gets me psyched for good routes.
McBirdy - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to Boar of Badenoch:
> (In reply to McBendy)
> [...]
>
> Or maybe he just got employed an expensive PR person after the E12 thing, haha...

Hmm. If he did, he should sack them. I think outside influence is the last thing he needs. I strongly suspect that being surrounded by a load of gooning loved-up groupies is a big part of the problem. If enough people tell you you're god and prostrate themselves in front of you each day then you probably start to believe it.
FiendishMcButton on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News:


His website looks like a young bloke having the time of his life to me. He climbs quite well too.
Tdubs - on 20 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
You turned down an 80k job that you obviously wanted because you wouldn't have applied for it otherwise because the boss used a turn of phrase that you think is dumb?

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

In reply to McBender:
You're an idiot as well.
McBirdy - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to FiendishMcButton:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
>
> His website looks like a young bloke having the time of his life to me.

And if that was his personal Facebook page I'd be more inclined to agree with you (although I'd still think "what a poser"). The fact that it's his public-facing professional climber website...

Kemics - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News:

working in an office could never be 'the dream'. Maybe that's the American dream or the corporate dream :)

THE dream. Is basically doing whatever you want with your life. Essentially if someone said in a fantasy world with no restrictions, what would you do with your life? THE dream, is whatever that answer is.

For me it has zero to do with money or having a big office. I'd rather live in van and get to climb every day :) Particularly if you top out a big multipitch with a great friend as the sun sets over a beautiful area. You might say "living the dream, baby!" and then high five.

The crazy fact is most people can achieve whatever there dream is, they just dont try because of imagined/perceived difficulties.

Aonach - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
> He is the one having the last laugh here!
Do you actually believe that?
To me it all looks very desperate and needy.
If he really is the quiet introspective type that you suggest then maybe he should look at those around him. He is either being massively over-indulged or getting terrible advice. Unless of course his plan is to crack the mass market - then he's doing it all right. Poor lad.


remus - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to Aonach: Why do we need to analyse the mans charachter, especially in such a public place and in such a ground less way (hands up who's spoken to him...)
CragRat11 - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News: So Mick.........

How you feeling about the constructive conversation about the video?
Still don't think its a character assassination?
Its a bloody shambles.
Bob kate bob on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy: I hope your academic research doesn't have as many outlandish asumptions in it as the drivel you have sprouted on this thread.

I don't know you, I have never met you, but if I use your methods on this thread it would mean I could look at the evidence and extrapolate your a bee loving tw@t.



flaneur - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to most of the above: Classy contributions.

On a more positive note, UKB report that Ryan Pasquil and Dan Varian both repeated Return of the Jedi yesterday, ground-up with pads. They also respectively onsighted and flashed Power of the Darkside.
CragRat11 - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to Tdubs: Agreed.
sasmojo - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News: Damned if you do and damned if you don't on this website.

Personally, I think it's a great effort. Well done James, UKC thanks for the news threads.

Scott
McBirdy - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to Bob kate bob:
> (In reply to McBendy) I hope your academic research doesn't have as many outlandish asumptions in it as the drivel you have sprouted on this thread.

Based on the available evidence...

> I don't know you, I have never met you, but if I use your methods on this thread it would mean I could look at the evidence and extrapolate your a bee loving tw@t.

You'd probably be right about that. I am not, however, a posing tw@t.

People judge - it's human nature. If people put themselves in the public eye and make a living out of endorsing products that we buy then they can expect some scrutiny. The guy may not care a jot, but my very personal view is that his public image sucks.
Andy Moles - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
> All you guys slating James and mocking his website. He is the one travelling the world living the dream.

*WINNING!!*
halo on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy: Couldn't agree with you more looks more like a low high ball than actual route.
Andy Moles - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
> It was a job interview for an editors job, $80,000 a year, expenses, sitting in this chair overlooking the world's most exciting city.

And you told them where to put it. Charlie Sheen would be proud.
halo on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to Adam Lincoln: Weve all had extraordinary life experiences at some point in our lives, life is not soap opera.
CragRat11 - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:

"People judge - it's human nature" ---- No, you judge and you assume that everybody else does too. Maybe some people can see beyond that judgement enough to not be unkind about people.

"If people put themselves in the public eye and make a living out of endorsing products that we buy then they can expect some scrutiny. The guy may not care a jot, but my very personal view is that his public image sucks."

All too often people use the 'he's in the public eye' as an excuse to give people (like James, in your case) a load of stick, your being a bully.
By the nature of what you are saying it is obvious that you don't know the guy but your still being openly judgemental about him. You have no idea who he his or why he is the way he is. He's never done anything to you, your just being a dick. A judgemental, opinionated dick.
billb - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to CragRat11: Everyone has opinions and makes judgements of people in the public eye who they have never met. Youre in denial if you can dissagree with that. Unless its just me..
galpinos - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Repeated by Ryan Pasquill and Dan Varian apparently.....
Kris Devlin - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to flaneur:

Effort by Varian and Pasquil! Utter beasts!!
juntao on 21 Mar 2011 - 77-76-77-166.static.unassigned.as8607.net
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC: haha. its worrying that someone with such ridiculous views and inability to argue logically is a senior editor....... i can see why they offered you that 80,000 a year job.....sure you turned it down and not the other way round?

your post sounds a lot like a bitter person who hasnt achieved their dream!
CragRat11 - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to billb: People do make judgements, but that doesn't mean its ok to be publicly horrible about people.

Some people have the ability to see past that and reserve their judgements until they have grounds to speak their mind about it (others don't!). Ie, don't be so harsh about people unless you genuinely know them and their circumstances (and feel it is really necessary to be open them). I would like to think that people wouldn't judge me on a first impression or some second hand information, as I'm sure you would too.

I think constantly judging people is unkind and unhealthy. Particularly as those judgements are only made based on ones own circumstances.
Sam Mayfield - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to CragRat11:

I think that when people judge other people badly its because of how they perceive themselves, its all karma! Dont waste your energy trying to make them see the error in what they say they are the ones with the sadness inside.

James is a lovely sweet guy and I know him personally, I am sure he is just laughing at all this if he can even be bothered to read it, I am sure he is much too busy happy and doing what he loves.

Sam Orange
CragRat11 - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to Sam Mayfield: Well said Sam.
In reply to Sam Mayfield:
> (In reply to CragRat11)
>
> I think that when people judge other people badly its because of how they perceive themselves, its all karma! Dont waste your energy trying to make them see the error in what they say they are the ones with the sadness inside.
>
> James is a lovely sweet guy and I know him personally, I am sure he is just laughing at all this if he can even be bothered to read it, I am sure he is much too busy happy and doing what he loves.
>
> Sam Orange

Yeah, but what's he done on grit?
Sam Mayfield - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

Nothing really he is soooo crap!

Sam
FiendishMcButton on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:
> (In reply to FiendishMcButton)
> [...]
>
> And if that was his personal Facebook page I'd be more inclined to agree with you (although I'd still think "what a poser"). The fact that it's his public-facing professional climber website...

Similar age guy also at the top of his game - http://www.aaronhadlow.com/ - Looks like the same sort of format to me, I can see where you're coming from but the sponsors like this kind of stuff and they tend to go with trends.

SCC - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to Sam Mayfield:
> (In reply to CragRat11)
>
> I think that when people judge other people badly its because of how they perceive themselves, its all karma! Dont waste your energy trying to make them see the error in what they say they are the ones with the sadness inside.
>
> James is a lovely sweet guy and I know him personally, I am sure he is just laughing at all this if he can even be bothered to read it, I am sure he is much too busy happy and doing what he loves.
>
> Sam Orange

^^ <Like>


Fidmark - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News: Good effort mate. I can only dream about being able to climb as hard as that!
danm - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to CragRat11:

What a disgrace. I thought we, as climbers, were better than this thread. The focus here isn't on the route, or the style, but on someones perception of someone they've never met. No wonder JP has moved abroad.
ads.ukclimbing.com
mrjonathanr on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to danm:
Quite. As for the ground up repeats, only 2 posters have even noticed.
Enty - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to mrjonathanr:
> (In reply to danm)
> Quite. As for the ground up repeats, only 2 posters have even commented.

Changed it for you.

E

shaymarriott - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News:

I may have missed it, but what is the definition of HXS? Somwwhat confused.

An amazing bit of climbing from JP there!
jon on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to Sam Mayfield:
> (In reply to CragRat11)
> (...) I am sure he is just laughing at all this if he can even be bothered to read it,

Do you think so Sam? I'd think he might be just a little upset. I know I would be. Of course if he realised that Bender was just a bully who just can't handle the thought of anyone enjoying themselves, then I suppose that might take some of the sting out of his stream of vitriolic comments.
GrahamD - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to shaymarriott:

In this case it probably means " I really can't be bothered with the aggrevation of offering a normal grade given the amount of grief I get when I do "
McBirdy - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to Sam Mayfield)
> [...]
>
> then I suppose that might take some of the sting out of his stream of vitriolic comments.

I haven't said anything vitriolic. I haven't even raised my voice. I've noticed the egotistical posey self-portraits and wondered if that fits with the sort of personality who gives an E9 E12 and claims it's the hardest route in the world.

As for Aaron Hadlow - http://www.aaronhadlow.com/ - he looks like PROPER tool. Maybe it's just a youth thing...
jon on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:

You're right Ben, you didn't. My apologies. I probably mean snide.
Tdubs - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to jon:
Don't forget desperate.
Pagan - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to halo:

> Couldn't agree with you more looks more like a low high ball than actual route.

Well, off you go and boulder it out then. Do post the video up on here so we can compare and contrast with the one in the OP, won't you?

This thread is a f*cking disgrace.
maverick - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
>
> Living the dream! What a shallow, offensive, illogical and unrealistic phrase. Used by wannabes, plastic people, and those seduced by fame, celebrity and brand logos.
>
> M

How can a phrase like 'living the dream' hurt you so much?

Surely you didn't turn down the job solely on that?
Tdubs - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to maverick:
I suspect Mr Ryan turned down the job for another reason, and has just implied that he turned down the job because he's so radical and principled that he would have the balls to do that over a phrase. Which is a bit plastic, shallow, illogical and unrealistic.

Alternatively, he did turn down the job for the phrase. Which is equally stupid.
maverick - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to Tdubs:

Yeah, it does seem that way but maybe he has his reasons.

A little harsh though i think for just a phrase...
chris j on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:
> (In reply to jon)
> [...]
>
> As for Aaron Hadlow - http://www.aaronhadlow.com/ - he looks like PROPER tool. Maybe it's just a youth thing...

5x World Champion, sound bloke. It's just the way companies market the 'heroes' to the youth market, nothing that reflects on the personalities of the people in the photos. Getting the impression you're the one with the issues here.
Michael Ryan - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to Tdubs:
> (In reply to maverick)

> Alternatively, he did turn down the job for the phrase. Which is equally stupid.

And other reasons of course.

But the point I uneloquently failed to make is that the phrase, Livin The Dream, is another of those shallow phrases that means nothing, all style no substance. It's Facebook generation shorthand for, 'Hey! Look at what I'm doing.' whilst that doing on Facebook is mostly made up for image projection to 'friends and fans' and to fuel status anxiety.

Well perhaps not in the world of climbing!

Michael Gordon - on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Hilarious video, awful thread.
Jimbo W on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:

> But the point I uneloquently failed to make is that the phrase, Livin The Dream, is another of those shallow phrases that means nothing, all style no substance. It's Facebook generation shorthand for, 'Hey! Look at what I'm doing.' whilst that doing on Facebook is mostly made up for image projection to 'friends and fans' and to fuel status anxiety.

Not to me it doesn't. To me it means determining and thus enjoying the course of my own life, enjoying the job I've always wanted to do, being blessed with family and the opportunity to a bit of climbing too. Living the dream. A few sh1ts try and spoil it now and then. If I was good enough to climb for enough of a living, then that would be pretty damn good too.
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC: Still digging I see.
FiendishMcButton on 21 Mar 2011
In reply to chris j:
> (In reply to McBendy)
> [...]
>
> 5x World Champion, sound bloke. It's just the way companies market the 'heroes' to the youth market, nothing that reflects on the personalities of the people in the photos. Getting the impression you're the one with the issues here.

Nice to see you did your research there Ben before forming a worthless opinion. I'd say that both James and Aaron are innovators in their chosen sports and are willing to push boundaries of what is possible, not just for themselves either. Who's the next victim to be added to your tool wall eh?
ali k on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News:

To summarise from UKB:

Ryan onsighted The Power Of The Darkside and Dan Varian flashed it and thought E7.

They both did Return of the Jedi ground up with pads (Dan in four goes, Ryan in six) and thought font 7c to the ledge, followed by some poor gear and a 6a move to finish. Sounds like they didn't think the landing was too bad, but as James says it depends how many pads I guess.

Good effort to JP for getting the FA and to Ryan & Dan for repeating in good style.
juntao on 22 Mar 2011 - 77-76-77-166.static.unassigned.as8607.net
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC: you chat some rareee shit mate. why are you so angry about such a harmless phrase? it means different things to different people. you have a very narrow view of facebook and the facebook generation......
ads.ukclimbing.com
Michael Ryan - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to juntao:

On the contrary. The phrase isn't harmeless, nor are all who use Facebook image sprayers. Language is very powerful and has meaning, meaning that can move to action or stimulate emotions.
Franco Cookson on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:

In this case though it's a literal explanation of a person's lifestyle. I hate Americanisms as much as the next man, and this has become an annoying cliche, but it is a concise explanation of what someone is doing- following their dreams, doing what they really want to do and leaving financial worries as second place.

Michael Ryan - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Franco Cookson:

Everyones dream is different, there is no one dream, the dream as 'Livin the dream' was invented my marketeers of extreme sports. Following your dream is an individual concept. It could be having three kids, struggling financially to make it all pull together, go climbing at weekends, tending to your allotment and socialising with good friends.

Living The Dream is also a phrase used to put two fingers up to everyone else, a claim that you are having a better time than everyone else, which is one of the uses of Facebook - that is well documented.

Anyway, off to live my dream - a 10 mile run with one of my race rivals!!!!!

Then a spot of bouldering.

As well as fitting an 8 hour shift of work in.
Lemony - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC: > Everyones dream is different, there is no one dream, the dream as 'Livin the dream' was invented my marketeers of extreme sports.

No it wasn't.
Michael Ryan - on 22 Mar 2011
thommi - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick: I know that you'll proberbly delete my comment or dismiss my comment because I dont fill in my profile, but i think I will speak for a lot of people when i say that you are coming across as a complete tool. sorry, im sure (but not convinced) that youre an alright bloke but the crap you just pedalled is everything that is wrong with your website (that, and the sh1te that McBendy is spouting). :-(
Lemony - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC: The phrase goes back a lot, lot further than a 2007 public awareness campaign. How about this from the 1940s: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cuHaAAAAMAAJ&q=%22living+the+dream%22&dq=%22living+the+dr...
Lemony - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Lemony: Anyway, my point is that you're just f*cking wrong about it being a manipulative marketing invention. It's a commonly used phrase which everyone else in the english speaking world accepts as a bit trite but ultimately harmless.
Michael Ryan - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Lemony:

It's many things Lemony, it often depends on the context it is used in and it is used in marketing. In this case, above, it was used to say, 'you can't criticise or comment or question because so and so is having a better time than you'.

It was used in a divisive and false way.
juntao on 22 Mar 2011 - 77-76-77-166.static.unassigned.as8607.net
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC: it wasnt saying you cant criticise him it was pointing out the impotent futility of criticising him which is a perfectly vaild point. its no more 'devisive' or 'false' than any other argument that occurs on UKC and really doesnt explain your response to the phrase.

thommi - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan: Arrrggghhh!!! Mick thats not what you were saying and wasnt your point. FFS.
Tdubs - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
Still going?
To be honest, I just love how you used it as a way of criticising false people who are trying to suggest they're more extreme than they are and project an "out-there" public image, while trying to imply that you turned down a perfect job for 80k over three words because you wanted us to believe you were that radical, principled and impulsive.

Perfect.
GrahamD - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:

First time I saw the phrase living the dream it was about someone retiring to a house in Provence back in the 70s. Hardly extreme.
Michael Ryan - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Tdubs:

It was but one of several signs. It was being touted as the perfect job. In reality the person who got it was overworked, eventually gave up and the company eventually sold. It was the perception that this was a dream job when I knew it wasn't, nothing about being radical, principled and impulsive.

When I read or hear the phrase, Livin' The Dream, alarm bells ring as it often no such thing - as ex-pats in that house in Provence often testify Graham.
juntao on 22 Mar 2011 - 77-76-77-166.static.unassigned.as8607.net
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC: yes but the point was that you chose to post about only about the good bits of the job, in particular its location and how much it paid and then gave only one reason as to why you would turn it down, as a senior editor so aware of deeper meanings and the power of language i am sure you are well aware of the impression you were attempting to project through your post.

its just an expression, it does not have to be taken literally. it will mean different things to differnt people in different contexts. theres really no need to get so stroppy about it.
juntao on 22 Mar 2011 - 77-76-77-166.static.unassigned.as8607.net
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC: anyway i thought you were off for a ten mile run with one of your rivals before a boulder.
maverick - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
> (In reply to Lemony)
>
> hijacked then.


Personally i think you have hijacked the phrase yourself but in a negative sense, you have a misconception of the whole idea of living the dream, i'd imagine 99.9% of people will understand the true meaning and that each person defines it differently in accordance with their life and goals...you seem to fall into the 0.1% of people who only regard it has an 'elitist' remark or phrase or a two-fingered gesture....that isn't what its about.

Enjoy your run...

McBirdy - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:

Interesting, this.

I wonder if these kids really think they are "living the dream", only to wake up in their mid-thirties and realise they've spent years living out of a grotty campervan, earning almost no money, eating stale bagels dunked in curry powder and producing nothing of any consequence as a result. Just an entirely transient and self-indulgent series of experiences. Far from 'the dream', this sounds like a pretty empty and pointless existence to me.

It seems to be driven by 'trend' - either self- or sponsor driven-marketing. All of these pictures of kids posing like rap stars and generally 'having a good time'. But really? Maybe in your teens and twenties experiences, friendships and perceived status are enough, but won't it ultimately leave a hulking great hole where 'purpose' ought to be?

One man's modern-day-hero is another's total irrelevance.
maverick - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
> (In reply to Tdubs)
>
It was the perception that this was a dream job when I knew it wasn't, nothing about being radical, principled and impulsive.
>

It wasn't the dream job for YOU....and i don't blame you for not taking it, you said you have your reasons....but its not to say it wouldn't be a dream job for somebody else, somebody more accomodated to that position and what it entailed. The way you described it makes it sound like a great job for many others out there.
Tdubs - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:
Jesus, not only are you being a fool, you're totally unimaginative to boot.
You unhappy mate? Seems you're pretty bothered by other people going out and having fun. It's not that hard, just quit your job and go if it bothers you this much.
Chris Harris - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC)

>
> I wonder if these kids really think they are "living the dream", (snip) Just an entirely transient and self-indulgent series of experiences.

If that's not the perfect definition of a dream, I don't know what is.
johncoxmysteriously - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Let's face it, Mick's right. Using the phrase 'livin' the dream' in any non-ironic way is the equivalent of tattoing 'Plastic w*nker' on your forehead, and the only appropriate response to an interviewer asking you if you are 'livin' the dream' is to lean over the desk and headbutt them.

And in reply to whoever said that a phrase is just a phrase and doesn't tell a story, get a grip. Have you never heard the expression 'sponsored by Red Bull'? Or, for that matter, 'starring Ricky Gervais'?

jcm
ali k on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:
> I wonder if these kids really think they are "living the dream", only to wake up in their mid-thirties and realise they've spent years living out of a grotty campervan, earning almost no money, eating stale bagels dunked in curry powder and producing nothing of any consequence as a result. Just an entirely transient and self-indulgent series of experiences. Far from 'the dream', this sounds like a pretty empty and pointless existence to me.

As opposed to what? Waking up in your mid-forties/fifties and realising that you've spent the last 30+ years working in some mundane job and living solely for the weekends plus your 21 days of holiday, and producing nothing of any real consequence as a result, except for the mortgage payments on your house? Plenty of people get to this point in their life and wish they'd done things differently. In fact I'd be willing to bet there are a hell of a lot more people in that position than your perceived scenario of what these 'kids' have in store for them. But who are you to criticise the choices people make?

To be honest, from what you've spouted on this thread it sounds like you're a very jealous or bitter person. Whichever it is, I think it's about time for you to leave this thread alone. You've already come across as enough of a tw*t without pressing on.
Offwidth - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to ali k: Lets be careful with terminology please, as per the reports made by these two: the routes were highballed above mats. What they did was impressive enough but an onsight without mats would have been amazing.
GrahamD - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC)
>
> Interesting, this.
>
> I wonder if these kids really think they are "living the dream", only to wake up in their mid-thirties and realise they've spent years living out of a grotty campervan, earning almost no money, eating stale bagels dunked in curry powder and producing nothing of any consequence as a result. Just an entirely transient and self-indulgent series of experiences.

Its exactly that - all about living for the now and sod all about planning pensions and future contingency. Noone said that it had to be a sustainable sort of lifestyle.
Franco Cookson on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Offwidth:

no it wouldn't, it would have been silly. Why not protect a route if it can be protected. It's like not placing a friend. Great effort on a necky highball group up.
juntao on 22 Mar 2011 - 77-76-77-166.static.unassigned.as8607.net
In reply to Franco Cookson: haha. yes a lot of the ethics debate is silly though really but your missing the point of the debate.
GrahamD - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

"livin' the dream" maybe a bit grating as is pretty much all text speap, "living the dream" seems reasonable enough. First time I heard that expression was when people started to upsticks to head for Provence in the '70s for a lifestyle change - nothing to do with yoof speak.

Nowhere near as the irritating as climbing media 'standards' such as "cruising", "crushing", "sending" etc. IMO
Offwidth - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I've met good people being non ironic when they said they were "livin' the dream" in the USA, where even post-irony for that phrase is rather passe. I have to say the Plastic Wanker thing is quite an impressive imagining though and it makes me wonder how many people you've actually head butted or if that is imagining as well. Ironic sponsorship (take the money and run) by Red-Bull must also be fine, non?
thommi - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to offwidth: not quite. RoTJ was bouldered to the break (ledge) then repeated with a rope to the top. :-)
juntao on 22 Mar 2011 - 77-76-77-166.static.unassigned.as8607.net
In reply to GrahamD: very true! 'crushing' is an expression i have a particular dislike for. i was once told by an american climber in tonsai to 'shred the gnar dude'
McBirdy - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to metal arms:
> (In reply to McBendy)
> [...]
>
> That is the dream you f*cking moron. Climbing whatever/whenever you want. Can't you find a increasing my personal worth website to go and type a load of w*nk on to instead? Prick.

Really? A dream? Do people have aspirations to one day leave a purposeful existance, up sticks and spend their days doing naff all of any real consequence? Sleeping, eating, climbing, laughing blaa blaa blaa? This planet has ~7 billion people on it. Imagine what a mess we'd be in if everyone was that selfish.

This thread needs a dose of realism. There is no "dream" involved in being a climbing bum (or kite-surfer for that matter). It's just a way of killing time for people who have nothing meaningful to offer society.
thommi - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy: Lol!! you must be trying to be a goon, right!?
thommi - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News: Maybe you should do a bit less of 'growing ya own'!!
Tdubs - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to McBendy:

Bender - you have nothing meaningful to offer a trivial internet thread, let alone society. Do one.
Offwidth - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Franco Cookson:

All climbing is silly in that case, its just a matter of degree. Anyway I don't want to argue any more as it subtracts from more astonishing ascents. All I wanted (and most good climbers I know want)is clear honest reporting of what they have done.
outtathaway - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to UKC News: He is a professional advertising the brand of North Face amongst other brands. As such he is contributing to the health of this business. He is fulfilling an essential role for the company, and I think is therefore a valuable member of society. He is also probably having the time of his life while doing so. The economy's health depends on company's such as the North Face. I don't think he should get stick as being a useless member of society, rather harsh.
jafor - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:

Seems an interesting thread as it's brought up a bit more than the usual bickering this time it has also crossed over to the worth of climbing and therefore sport and it's impact on society. In terms of us (humans), it seems that sport is incredibly important to us. From football to sailing to climbing to swimming they all manage to inspire people to strive harder.

That might be in a job they hate and so wish for more or might be in a job they love and push even harder. Living the dream is many things for many different people. it is about percentages and how much you want to do something. It is a personal thing. but it does have impact on the wider world.

maverick - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to jafor:

Explain....
ericoides - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
> (In reply to Tdubs)
> ... Livin The Dream, is another of those shallow phrases that means nothing, all style no substance.

It's all Leeds's fault
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doing_a_Leeds#.22Doing_a_Leeds.22

and one of their former players
http://www.rioferdinandltdf.com/
ads.ukclimbing.com
se0ne on 22 Mar 2011 - 77-76-77-166.static.unassigned.as8607.net
In reply to UKC News: im sure there were more posts a minute ago? some sneaky deleting going on?
jafor - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to maverick:

Well on a personal level I was inspired by the 80-90's group of climbers, Moon, Dawes etc. Without them and the stories that surrounded them then I think my teens would have been a pretty dull experience. I couldn't wait for on the edge to come out as I could see what they had been up to and then through those people I wanted to climb harder. I met great friends along the way and still call myself a climber even though I do very little in comparison to what I used to.

But the modern climber or other sports people like elen MacArthur also inspire me to try harder in other areas of life. It's not as simple to say they are doing nothing and have no effect in society. We all have our own goals and we can gain inspiration from all over the place. I pull on all kinds of inspiration in my job as a designer. Without people doing brilliant things in loads of different areas, it would be a pretty dull place.

It's only a thought.
In reply to se0ne: mais oui, vous avez raison, mon poste a été supprimé.
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to se0ne:

some brisk moderating i think.

i expect the thread is going to get pulled shortly, seemed to have largely descended into people abusing ben
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:

perhaps if we all post in french, it'll baffle the mods....?

not sure what the french for what metal arms and thommi have posted would be though. would need a specialist dictionary.
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 22 Mar 2011
In reply to se0ne:

absolutely not. nope.

careful now...

(down with that sort of thing...)

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