UKC

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/index.html#item8056

I find it hard to imagine that Nic has never seen anyone on the route, or even never watched that bit of hard grit video! (especially as he is in the video at another point doing white wall!) that would not make an onsight.

ANyway Shaun Hutson flashed it years ago didn't he?

In reply to daveP:

Another classic UKClimbing non-news story. I think Master's Edge onsight is within the ability of a lot of climbers thesedays, so I expect it's been flashed by Joe Bloggs of Swindow.

"A few degrees cooler and maybe he would have held the edge?" "He pulled his ropes and climbed it effortlessly next go."

Aren't these two lines contradictary?

In reply to jon:

Dont talk bollocks mate. Where the f*ck have you been????? this route has been flashed by one person after watching many others on it. The feet are crucial and it would be extremely tight to onsight without prior knowledge as you cannot reverse any of the moves. the route has been climbed ground up by several top british climbers, no one who could be considered joe bloggs could onsite this route. I know all the previous ground uppers, but feel free to enlighten me otherwise. Getting to the last move onsite is a fine effort and to do it ground up next go is a extremely ethical ascent, the best of this route to date.

In reply to simon moore:


How do you know you know?

In reply to jon:

Well as I say, prove me wrong. because i know everything

In reply to daveP:


After abseil inspection, yes.

In reply to simon moore:

best ascent of the route to date is Hutsons - this was in the 80's when it was still considered proper hard.

In reply to Anonymous:

For a lot of routes I would say that a flash is more impressive than one fall groundup (onsight), but this route is so dependant on the foot sequence that I feel this is possibly a better acsent. though a fine effort by shaun back in the day.

In reply to daveP:

I'm sure Shaun Hutson told me he fell off the last move on his first attempt. Dave Musgrove isn't really a well known name and he sort of flashed it, certainly proved he had the ablity to on-sight it given the circumstances of his ascent.

In reply to Tyler:

he did top rope it 5 years prior though. And to be fair he is well known, he is in loads of pictures in the grit guides.

In reply to daveP: Dave Musgrove 'onsighted' it 2 years ago (apart from seeing Hard Grit), better than Hutsons I think...

In reply to jon:

Ah, I thought this might cause a bit of upset.

There seems to be this notion that because certain soft touch grit E8s (End of the affair, Gaia etc) get headpointed by every man and his dog, that the same goes for on-sighting grit E7?

There are a few routes (e.g. Strangeness at Caley, Mind bomb at Ilkley, Kaluza Klein) which have seen this treatment, but it's still a rare occurence.

Believe me, I would have said 'flash' if it was a flash. If Nic has watched Hard Grit properly, then he certainly was putting on a good display of knowing bugger all about what the moves are.

The reason the news story is there is because I was holding the ropes. This style of ascent (i.e. ground up, 1 fall) of a proper grit E7 deserves a mention.

In reply to Tyler:

Although Dave is a phenomenal climber and a completely unsung hero of grit, even if he'd top roped Master's 5 years prior to his ascent last year, it isn't the same as starting from the bottom and going for the shot holes, not knowing whether you can do the move.

My understanding was that Shaun Hutson's ascent was 'ground up' as per Nic's.

In reply to Nj:

DAVE MUSGROVE DID NOT ONSIGHT IT, HE HAD TOP ROPED IT 5 YEARS AGO BUT NOT LED IT. THEN LAST YEAR HE TURNED UP AT THE CRAG AND DID IT FIRST GO, AFTER 5 YEARS!!!! check your facts. I also agree with what tom says, nic didnt look at hard grit in any detail.

In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor: Watching Richard Ekehead on Hard Grit hardly invalidates the onsight I think.

Remembering the sequences while you're actually on the route must be bloody difficult.

In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor: ]

Who has onsighted mind bomb tom. I didnt think any one had.

In reply to simon moore:

Anyway the news report stated 'nearly'

In reply to simon moore:

Yeah I know the circumstances of the ascent but a brief play on a top rope (are you sure it was only 5?) years prior hardly tallies with your ascertion that "The feet are crucial and it would be extremely tight to onsight without prior knowledge as you cannot reverse any of the moves.", I can't imagine he would have rembered much about them if its that sequency. Still a) I know nothing b) good effort by all concerned, didn't Matin Atkinson do something very similar.

PS. I hardly think getting your photo in a guidebook your dad edits wearing amful tights places you in the premier league of British climbers

In reply to daveP:

Ground up is the only way. More people tend to be doing Masters Edge this way now. A friend of mine did this a few weeks ago but he fell of a few times before toping out. Good effort anyways.

In reply to Tyler:

I want a pair of those tights! Good ascents all round anyway, wot can I say i f*cking headpointed it!!!!

In reply to simon moore:

He doesn't mean Mind Bomb, he says Ilkley so probably Deathwatch/Desperate Dan/Snap Decision.

What style did Martin Atkinson do Master's in?

In reply to Del:

was that Liam?

In reply to Nigel:

Ground up several falls get back to your work

In reply to simon:
Yeah, you know him?

In reply to Del:

Yep, I do indeed.

In reply to simon moore:
Cool,
He is going pretty well I understand, Havent spoken to him for a while, last i heard he went up to north Wales to have a bash at Lord of the flies.

In reply to daveP: How did he know he needed tricams? sounds like prior knowledge to me?

In reply to Del:

he will piss it im sure if he gets the weather. Richards going well though.

In reply to simon moore:

Yes Dad.

In reply to simon moore:
Yeah, was working a 8c wasnt he, strong git!

In reply to Del: got close to the 8c+ in suir. He did a few 8b+'s. He has got so strong in the last year.

In reply to daveP:
I've onsighted the death defying Musters Edge, weighing in at a hefty Severe 3c, having been led blindfolded to the crag with ear plugs in, after been spun around several times to completely disorientate myself.

It must be the purest ascent yet, and surely worth a UKC news story

In reply to Jon Greengrass:

most of the shot holes take the same gear

In reply to daveP:

Coincidentally, Shaun Hutson (who thesedays is a Guide working out of Chamonix) is just about to arrive in our office!

I've just asked him on the phone about his ascent back in the day - ground up (no prior inspection) with 1 fall. Fine effort!

In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor: does he still look like Bruno Brookes?

In reply to daveP:

He also looks not unlike the horror author Shaun Hutson. Which cause me a moment's confusion when I saw the photos of him in some of the grit guides.

(I'm assuming they're not one and the same person...)

In reply to daveP:

Nope.

Martin Atkinson also did it ground up, just before Shaun (in 1988).

Both of them took several falls.

In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:


What Martin Atkinson and Bruno Brookes? As Shaun only took one fall as you asserted in your previous post. Am I confused or are you?

In reply to daveP: This is such a pointlessly crap thread. Unless you live in a box, walk about the crags with a blindfold on and just generally don't get out much, you are BOUND to see people doing routes you want to do. I watched the a guy solo edge lane last night, so that's buggered it for me, hasn't it?

No.

when i was in pembroke last i did ghostship. does this mean that when i rant about it in the pub i must first tell everyone it wasn't 'proper' because i saw someone on it a four years before? course it doesn't!

Nic Sellars probably has seen pictures of people on it, heard about it from his mates and so on and so on. what is important is that he went out wanting to do the route, he got on it, took a massive pisser, got back on and got it done. oh yes...he and his mates were all just dead nice friendly people out for a good night's climbing; they didn't in the slightest come across as tossers out to shoot someone down for the way or grade they climb.

what was the point of the original post anyway? slagging someone off for doing something hard in such an impressive way? you must have better things to do, surely?

think ud be surprised how many people flash,onsight,ground up or whatever e7 routes.more than the odd lucky routr too. still a very fine effort.

In reply to martin k:

I didnt see any slagging.

Dave was pointing out the news report should have been nearly flashed, not nearly onsighted (NOT onsited!) the route.

Thats all.

ANd I agree.

In reply to martin k:

You see mozzer knows the score, so bite me.

In reply to mozzer:
as i say, surely you have better things to do?
flashbetapinkheadpointflash...who the hell cares? (really)

i'm off climbing...

In reply to martin k: but you're not off climbing are you-you're off somewhere to mince and to pretend to be a climber.Dave's point was valid.

In reply to Scouse D: do you always find that getting personal is a good way of making your point, scouse man? i usually find it's a good way of demonstrating how you don't have anything relevant to say and you shouldn't really have bothered...

why am i 'pretending to be a climber'? is it because i've said something you don't agree with? yeah, dave's point is valid, and so is mine. comments like yours do nothing to enrich a debate. say something constructive, back up your assertions and contribute meaningfully.

whatever.

In reply to martin k:

I thought you said you were off climbing?

In reply to martin k:

I do, like revise. Thats why Im posting on here as I am avoiding revision. Its pissing it down anyway and I live miles from rock.

Your point - that it doesnt really matter about the ascent as long as its not lied about - IS valid, in that he climbed it - well done Nic Sellars.

Thats not the point of the thread, which was pointing out what seemed to be an inaccuracy. The amount of bullshit that flies around (see E7 thread now) shows its important to make sure that the style is recorded correctly.

So while your point is valid, the news item was maybe not quite spot on - and it *is* important to get things spot on. Or 5 years down the line someone will be muttering - like JD on Parthian, blah blah blah

In reply to mozzer:

I agree.

But further up the thread (yeah like right up the top dude), I pointed out that I was holding the ropes and know the individual personally. He had no recollection of the video, nor had he seen anyone on it. He didn't have any beta on the moves. I suppose he did know what size tricams were needed, otherwise he'd have taken up a full rack.

I'd call this an on-sight attempt.

I can't help thinking that you're just upset cos it's Friday afternoon, it's raining and it's probably going to be wet all weekend?

In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:

Indeed. I did see that you said you were holding the ropes.

You are right. It will be wet.

The way i see this thread, dave made a point about the news story. Which I agree with. You clarified, as you have just done, fine, OK, he nearly onsighted it. My mistake.

Wasnt going to post anything until Martin K whinged that there was slagging off of NS and that noone gives a shit anyway. Replied to him saying that basically it is important.

Not really upset at NS/you/the thread, as it had died, then martin got all arsey.

Congrats to NS and all. Good effort.

In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:

I'm glad you made this a news item Tom - it's nice to see any ethical improvement at the higher echelons of grit climbing getting attention, instead of all this tedious every-man-his-dog-and-of-course-his-f*cking-bouldering-mat headpointing that people all too often spooge about as if it's of any interest any more.

When will the true onsight flash be, eh...

In reply to mozzer:
sure that the style is recorded correctly.

Blimey has JD finally climbed Parthian, you'll be telling me they've put a man on the moon next