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Fear... and how to master it...?

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jessicajohnson1984 20 May 2011
Hey all.

I've been climbing about eight months.

Indoor I'm about 6B.

I've recently started learning to lead, indoors I can lead 5+.

I'm trying to lead 6a - but anything after the third clip, and I can't get any higher. I lose all focus, and normally have to come down.

I am afraid to climb above that clip, and I think it's because I am petrified of falling..

Any advice or tips to get over this gratefully received

j x
 stonemaster 20 May 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984: Do you trust your partner? Practise falling off in a 'safe' situation; if indoors please make sure the local staff know what you are up to; or take a course in lead climbing with a professional instructor (ducks for cover...). Good luck.
 rallymania 20 May 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984:

you are going to hate me probably, but learning to fall is part of learning to lead indoors
 Kemics 20 May 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984:

fear of falling/heights is just part of being human, it's an incredibly persistent idea that's evolutionary hardwired.

Seems the only way to beat it is to condition yourself that it's not painful or dangerous. The only way to do that, is to do it lots, over and over, until it bores you to tears. I remember when I first started leading I was terrified of falling, used to get shaky and even ended up doing things that actually were dangerous (slightly) to avoid actually falling.

Then you take a few falls and the experience is hugely a massive anti-climax. The trick for me was just to start small. Literally sitting in my harness from the bolt. So you're only falling the rope stretch and the bolt is above you so you feel safe. Don't say "TAKE!" till the rope is bow-string tight before you sit back. Just clip the bolt and fall 1 meter or so. Then work it up from the bolt at waist height, thigh height. Never do a fall you're not comfortable with because it will reinforce the fear of falling and legitimize it in your mind that "it is scary" instead. Keep taking falls that feel boring until you're intentionally skipping bolts and whipping of the top of climbs whooping the whole way down.

Good belaying is essential.

 SonyaD 20 May 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984: Just keep at it. I used to be a nervous wreck even leading 5's and would shout take on every clip as I was just so terrified of falling. I'm still pretty scared of falling but I'm quite happy taking wee swings or slumps onto the rope now, only get scared if the clip is at my feet and I'm low enough down that I'm going to fall close to the ground. Just onsighted my first 6b indoors and working on a 6b+ (this one is scary!) but if you'd told me a couple of years ago that I'd be trying 6b's and 6b+'s on lead, I'd have thought you were crazy!

Do have a falling session with a belayer you trust and like the person above said, just practise taking wee slumps onto the rope, gradually taking bigger falls. At first, it might seem terrifying and go against every single instinct to let go of that wall but once you've taking a few slumps, you'll see it's not scary at all. If you do this on an overhanging wall then the fall is comfy as it's just into air and there's nothing to bang yourself on. Some people purposely take a few falls at the beginning of any leading session just to get the fear out of the way each time. It does trash your rope after a while though!
 ericinbristol 20 May 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984:

You need to practice falling with a belayer you trust and who is trustworthy:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1838

I fall off multiple times every sport and indoor session with good belayers. After so many hundreds of falls I rarely think about it.
FiendishMcButton 20 May 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984:

Buy a copy of 9 out of 10 Climbers and start practising the clip drop technique http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1838

Don't stop after a few sessions keep a few falls every time you go to the wall.

If doing clip drop on lead feels impossible then start by doing some falls on a top rope quite close to the ceiling and add more slack into the when you feel comfortable. When you're adding slack tell your partner how much to add, don't leave it up to them.

Clip drop is great fun at first but it does get boring, once you are getting confident on lead start letting go as soon as you've clipped the belay chains (don't wait for you partner to take in the slack) then build this up to doing a night where you don't clip the belay but let go when you've slapped the ceiling or the last hold.



 Quiddity 20 May 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984:

http://smartclimbing.blogspot.com/2009/11/falling-off-practice-how-to-do-it...

to quote:

> for many people, taking a big whipper is very scary and may not be able to do it; if they can they are tense and anxious before they start, likely to have an uncomfortable fall, and so again the anxiety is strengthened. We also know from the research evidence that flooding doesnt have such a good maintenance rate as graded exposure - ie the effects dont last so long.

> To do graded exposure well, you need to work up to taking a whipper. This may take a very long time (months even) and its baby steps and allow for some setbacks. You need to learn to pair relaxation with falling off to recondition yourself. Firstly, you need to learn how to relax on the ground, then when you are climbing, and then when you are falling. You need to do it in small steps, eg a slump on a top rope, a larger fall on a top rope, a fall from under the bolt when leading, next to the bolt and then above the bolt. You dont move on to the next step until you are completely comfortable with the previous one and you go back a step if needed.

in a nutshell, if the idea of falling practice is scary then you're doing it wrong. If you do it right, it should be relaxing.
 Offwidth 20 May 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984:

The fall practice people are right, but take care. Firstly falling any distance when tense can lead to injuries if you swing in and hit the wall: start small and build. Secondly make sure your communication is good and belayer is up to it, Ive seen near accidents from people doing this. Finally, when most of the fear has gone, relax the rope between falls if taking whippers, as per manufacturer advice.
 Charlie_Zero 20 May 2011
In reply to Offwidth:

As above, I'd suggest some falling practice, building up gradually, as if you overdo it and actually scare yourself, it will be counter-productive.

It might be best to begin with falls on a top-rope, before progressing to taking falls on a lead rope.

Using a top-rope, double check harness, knots, belay device and carabiner so that you don't start to worry about them subsequently. Then climb nice and high on a slightly overhanging route. Ask your belayer to lock-off the belay device and then climb a bit higher and let go. Repeat, trying to gradually increase the fall distance. The advantage of this method is that you control how far you will fall by telling the belayer when to lock-off the rope, and then deciding how far to climb above this. You will be reassured by the knowledge that the device is already locked-off when you fall.

The Rock Warrior book suggests that falling practice is best done with eyes open, breathing out during the fall, and looking in the direction of the fall, so that you become more relaxed about falls generally.
 beardy mike 20 May 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984: All the above is fine, but it doesn't address the root cause of the problem. Your fear! To get over your fear you need to understand what it is you're scared of in the first place - you can be scared of falling for many reasons: failure on the route and how that makes you feel, death or injury, the unknown (what will happen?), mistrust of your belayer, the feeling of falling, the worry of falling off itself amongst an infinite number of others - they are all different and to understand your fear you need to identify exactly what it is otherwise you may be able to temporarily quash it, but it will always comeback at some point. When it does you need to have the tools to rationalise it and put it in a box... and to either use the adrenaline to fuel upwards progression, or just shut it out all together depending on the situation.

So think about it long and hard - climb routes and make an effort to feel and make a note of what it is that's making you scared. If you can work that out you are half way there! Once you've done that you can then make a plan as to how you get over it. It's all very well doing clip drops but if you are scared of the gear pulling out it's goign to do f all good when you're outside on trad gear...
Wonko The Sane 20 May 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984: Like wot they all said. By facing it.

you don't have to face it all in one massive chunk, you can face it in some small way and build it up. It's the same way you learn to jump off the top diving board in a swimming pool. some go right to the top and leap in, some go one board at a time. Choose which suits your nature!
 Tiberius 20 May 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984:

I'm not sure that thinking in terms of 'mastering' it is necessarily going to give the best results. Perhaps think more in terms of 'accepting' it. So you're scared, does it really matter? Accept that you're going to be scared and get on with it. Eventually you won't even think of it.
 Tiberius 20 May 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984:

I meant to add, there are different techniques. As you've seen here there are several suggestions, none of them are really right or wrong. Most people can really only tell you the one that worked for them. You just have to find the one that works for you.
 Offwidth 20 May 2011
In reply to mike kann:

You're right, it may be arachnaphobia: they come out and get you when they know you have less chance to get away. I know what you said is well meant but it takes time and a little fall practice is a good start point, especially given the specific situation the OP described. They can deal with spiders later.

People practicing falling on trad gear need good backup pieces and need to stay away from classics.
 Scarab9 20 May 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984:

as above, clip drop technique works for a lot of people.

Otherwise it's training your mind. What are you thinking when you bottle it? probably "shhhiiiiiiiiiit!!!!". What you need to be doing is when that starts take a moment to rationalise your situation. "If I fall here what will happen?". the majority of the time the answer is "I'll take a swing but be absolutely fine". Occaisionally you may need to consider how to move if you do fall (for example you may swing left into a wall so you want to think about your reaction).

The only way to do that is by getting the mileage in. It may be better to ignore pushing your grades and working on 6as for a bit and instead do loads of 5+s that you're happy with but stop on the awkward bits and concentrate on what you're thinking. Train yourself to assess it rationally. Then when you're ready to move on to 6as again you'll have the tools to deal with it.

Lots of people seem to think that because their technique and strength has reached a certain point then they should be able to climb a certain grade, but forget that the head game is just as important and actually they're not ready.
 beardy mike 20 May 2011
In reply to Offwidth: Never said drop practice couldn't work, but I'd say it's utter bollocks to say drops will definately sort the problem. I've seen enough people who are scared of "heights"/"falling" to know that it can't be lumped under one title and treated the same. Besides, just jumping off will scare the bejesus out of some people... having witnessed people going from literally not being able to get higher off the ground then a couple of feet to doing 250m routes, I know for definate that falling off would not have worked in that particular case and it was all about rationalising the fear. Clip drops are a form of this - they make you realise that you can trust the gear and trust your partner, but that's it... just think it's better for people to actually learn what the problem is rather than plastering over it.
 Mark Reeves Global Crag Moderator 26 May 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984: There are a few things on my coaching blog about this. Try looking at the categories on fear of falling and anxiety.

The advice I would give you depends on you as an individual.

Questions you'd need to be able to answer is:

When you are leading do you fear falling off or do you fear no being able to clip the next bolt because you are pumped? These are actually two different things.

Do you have bad images of you falling off or is it just negative thoughts/words?

Do you find yourself over gripping as a result of anxiety/fear, or is it just a total break down in the ability to think straight? Or what makes you lose that focus?

Basically there are different approaches to take dependent on the type of anxiety you suffer from and the effect it has on your climbing.

Stage one is to realise that anxiety has an effect on your climbing, and what those effects are. Adrenaline has some physical and mental effects on us in fearful situations. Learning what is normal and what isn't is a good starting point.

Stage two is to start working on those effects through a variety of methods appropriate to you. Usually some form of imagery, self-talk, relaxation and fall practice, however some of these may not be as effective as others based on what you find in stage 1.

There is some stuff in my book 'How to Climb Harder' on confidence building and mental skills for climbers.

 dbm 31 May 2011
> I've recently started learning to lead, indoors I can lead 5+.
> I'm trying to lead 6a - but anything after the third clip,
> and I can't get any higher.

Haven't you got over the hard bit if you're up to the third clip? .... it's the lower part of the route where you may stand more chance of hitting the deck if you come off. I generally find that by the time I'm up to the third clip I'm feeling more secure.

BTW I'm not much more 'advanced' than you, leading some 6a's clean and working others.

David
 scooott 31 May 2011
In reply to Mark Reeves:
> (In reply to jessicajohnson1984)
>
> When you are leading do you fear falling off or do you fear no being able to clip the next bolt because you are pumped? These are actually two different things.
>

Sounds like a good distinction. I haven't lead much sport, but my main fear was always getting to a bolt and being too pumped to clip, and having to bail mid-clip with the rope in my hand, 1 inch from the bolt.

I'm not really scared of falling that much. It's the same with highballs. I'm not too bad on the actual climbing, I just dread getting to the top of the problem and finding a sloping/ hard top out. This strikes me as something completely different to the fear of falling, as you say.
mattgc2 31 May 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984: Don't worry about it!! We are all born with the fear of falling, it's human preservation . It's how you deal with the fear, when the brown pant moment comes think what's the worst that can happen , you will soon come too see that the worst case incident is very unlikely , if not next to impossible (especially indoors) , then you can trust yourself to reach that next hold and clip . This is the mantra I use teaching budding tree surgeons which is far far more dangerous/frightening ..... It just takes time and practise , scary is fun
 James Oswald 31 May 2011
In reply to mattgc2:
This isn't really true - climbers whcih have less fear and climb fluently and well on lead aren't necessarily out of their comfort zone. In fact, they rarely are. Their comfort zone is just much larger.
(Sorry if I completely misinterpretted your post, the internet is prone to allowing this.)

To the original poster - you need to take literally hundreds of falls to become a confident leader. Buy 9/10 climbers (or another similar book) and start now.
 AndyE9 31 May 2011
I have been climbing since aug 2010 so not that long really , I started leading after a short while of intense climbing.

I had the same fear of falling , this hit me when leading an E1 was a real mind game for me , and still is . .

what i have done to get over this and to not let it take over is to take some falls indoors on bolted routes, some people will say not to and others will argue against, but for me it really worked I try a take a few practice falls every now and then.. indoors/bolted routes have not practiced this on trad climbs...

Maybe this will help you to have faith in your belayer , equipment and such, I started clipping and the dropping right after. then climbing up to the next clip and not clipping but just falling.. not really somthing that felt neatural but worked a treat and started to be fun..

It helped with my climbing indoors and out ...
mattgc2 01 Jun 2011
In reply to James Oswald: Your right bud, but high end climbers did not start with no fear it's built up over time
In reply to James Oswald:
> (In reply to mattgc2)

> To the original poster - you need to take literally hundreds of falls to become a confident leader.

Not so. I think that anyone who climbs with me would consider me to be a confident leader and I hardly ever fall.

Al
 James Oswald 05 Jun 2011
In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:
> (In reply to James Oswald)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> Not so. I think that anyone who climbs with me would consider me to be a confident leader and I hardly ever fall.
>
> Al

Do you truly lead at your physical limit?
 spudlet70 10 Jun 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984: The only way to overcome the fear of falling (perfectly natural, we are not, as human beings, programmed to deal with this) is by falling.

Start off leading something you know you can do, climb past the lastbolt you clipped, so that it's about waist height (to begin with) and fall from there, do this until you don't feel so crap about it (falling will not feel "natural" for a while yet), then move past that bolt until it's about knee level and so on and so forth. Dont'y go all out though, if you go for a big fall first you could dint your confidence massively rather than progressing.

It will take time to become used to falling as (as i said before) we are not naturally programmed to deal with it. but do you remember your first top toped climb? you now fall as though you have been doing it forever. The same principle applies for lead falling. The more you do it, the more you become used to it's feeling and sensation.

Happy falling!!
In reply to James Oswald:
> (In reply to Al Randall)
> [...]
>
> Do you truly lead at your physical limit?

Probably not that far off on sport. I like to leave a bit in reserve on trad.

Al
 hatchleader 10 Jun 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984: I find that my fear changes with the belayer. With one of my belay partners i won't push to the limit because in the back of my mind i'm worried, however with my long term partner i'll usually just give them a quick heads up that i'm not sure about the next move and then go for it anyway! even then though i'm not at the point where i can just go for it without giving them the heads up!
 lmarenzi 10 Jun 2011
In reply to jessicajohnson1984:

Congrats on climbing 6b after 8 months of climbing!

I am more impressed by your ability to listen to your feelings though. Falling can really hurt, so it pays to be careful. If you are scared, come down.

The replies above have plenty of good advice, taken from excellent sources. But I doubt the advice applies to you. Falling practice is excellent for removing irrational fear when a fall is safe. But you need to make sure you know it really is safe first, anything else is just fooling yourself, and its your life and you want to be responsible for it, don't you? In your shoes I would want to know about shock loading, gear ratings (krab, bolt, hanger, that ridiculous looking piece of cloth that holds quickdraws together), modes of failure on gear, fall factors, different belay devices and how they work, back clipping, avoiding rope burn, dynamic belaying, longevity of rope, the welding of the structure of the wall you use, additional safety systems (backup on lower bolt, collapsible floor), swing potential, buddy check system, knots. That is just for starters. Be really 100% sure you are safe to fall before you try it. The route to practice falls on should be overhanging and you should only be falling at the top of the route. It will probably be very difficult or impossible to find overhanging routes that you can climb at all to even start you fall training at the moment.

Even once you have got an idea of the above and done some fall training feeling comfortable falling and more importantly on lead will come down to your belayer being really experienced and alert and understanding and patient. Such people are hard to find, so when you find one hold onto them.

Happy climbing

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