UKC

Please also add who you voted for at the election or which party you usually support.

For me, he's probably less effective as a leader of the opposition than Iain Duncan Smith.

I really can't see anything positive about him for Labour supporters other than he's not Gordon Brown or Tony Blair.

So what's the view, dead duck or come back king?

In reply to KTT: Ineffectual.

In reply to KTT: The best leader labour could possibly have(i voted SNP)

In reply to KTT:

Voted LibDem - chance to get a referendum on PR as the FPTP voting system is demonstrably un-representative, and we need a change to the adversarial system of politics we have - but usually a Labour voter.

Ed Milliband seems, largely, to be a non-entity.

On the other hand, Rupert Murdoch has his editorial support on the side of David Cameron, and decides what angle is pushed on every political story, so it's entirely probable that seeing Milliband as a non-entity is what we are supposed to see.

In reply to Dominion: I don't think Cameron is doing a very good job and I voted Tory, I just can't imagine a weaker party leader than Milliband.

In reply to KTT:

I can, and I did before the last election. It was David Cameron.

His totally gormless interview about Michael Ashcroft, where he refused to answer a question about whether he knew Ashcroft's tax status before he appointed him to the position of Deputy Chaiman of the Conservative Party - the tax status of Ashcroft being highly controversial, and a potential embarrassment because of his (Ashcroft's) committment to pay tax as a UK citizen as a condition to his peerage, something that Willima hague negotiated, but seemed to be unaware that Ashcroft had wormed his way out of until ten years later - and there was another interview when Cameron realised he was supporting a right-wing, anti-gay agenda, and wanted the interview stopped so he could start again from scratch when he realised what he'd just indicated he supported, without even realising it.

Classic Cameron examples of moronic "hug a hoodie" playing to the press, and trying to take a line where he can show a side that he doesn't actually believe in. PR lying* wanker.

*the lying is on record in Hansard on April 27, during the "Calm down dear, calm down, calm down" incident, so I can clearly get away with calling David Cameron a liar...

In reply to KTT: He's a necessary stage in the process of becoming electable again. I don't believe he's the leader to do it, but the party may work out what it does want and stand for as a result of him being there. This will almost certainly not be to his benefit and it may take another election defeat before Labour works out what it now stands for.

I have a suspicion that the leader they need isn't someone that's yet in the frame; it may be someone that came in first at the last election.

As for saying for whom I voted last time, I take the Brian Redhead - I think that was the chap, used to do the Radio 4 today programme - position.

T.

In reply to Dominion: Yeah, most of that I agree with. But what I don't see is how Milliband is ripping into Cameron and scoring heavily, I bet Foot, Kinnock, Smith and Blair would all take Cameron to the cleaners but Milliband doesn't seem to have the balls.

In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Do you mean you voted Liberal or like Brian did not announce it to the public.


Voted Liberal, unfortunately another ineffectual conservative got in, a yes man who says one thing then changes his mind to suit the party.

In reply to KTT:

I think Ed really wants to be Seb Coe but he hasn't quite got the chin for it .

In reply to KTT:

There is a side of the argument which says that people are fed up with seeing Prime Minister's Question time being a bitch fight, and an attempt to score points.

Cameron, I think, tried to use that argument whilst in opposition, and then did what he'd said he wouldn't do. But possibly part of that was that he was then seen in the press - and at that point Murdoch hadn't decided to bias his editorial towards Cameron, so Cameron had to take action or News International would portray him - as ineffectual



<aside>
Sorry, I've got really cynical about the role of the press in politics since the phone-hacking scandal hit the scene. Although I suppose I was equally cynical back in the 80s when the press was used by Thatcher as a tool to push through Trade Union legislation (some of which was very much needed, but she seemed to use it to wage war, and create situations that she could use)

Funny how she is hated, but Murdoch is still running news services, and politicans still have to suck up to him, or get the axe - eg Vince Cable and his rant about Murdoch. Goodbye Vince...

Politics is shat on from a great height by how the press (and their editors and owners) choose to push a particular viewpoint, and how they choose the timeing of particular disclosures eg David Laws withdrawing from Question Time, and then getting shat on from a great height...

</aside>

In reply to KTT:

I would have preferred his dad.

I voted conservative but dont have a party i normally vote for.

He seems to be banking on the ccoalition digging their own grave rather than making his own mark on things. All he seems to be doing at the moment is saying any of the coalition policies are bad but hasnt said much more about how he'd make things better apart from a slower reduction in the deficit. At the moment its working according to the opinion polls but the coalition know that the bad comes now so that by the time of the next election things will be better.

IMO he should have admitted labours mistakes and what theyve learnt from them and how they plan to make things better. If he, or anyone, was in place before the last election a lot more voters would have seen it as a good move.

Seems a bit weak in PMQ's and is playing the false laugh game rather than using substance. Think he isnt the best guy to lead labour through the next election. His brother seemed to old school labour and Balls seems a liability. I liked the northern guy who went for the leadership. Then again a lot of labour (and other party) voters dont really pay much interest in politics even at election time.

In reply to KTT: He's embarrassing. And that's after a while with GB in charge - amazing. Just a weak, ineffectual fool whom you wouldn't trust to make you a pot noodle for fear of him f^cking it up. No ideas, no policies, just a total embarrassment. When the Tories (sorry, Coalition) are being so inept in power, it's not exactly the hardest job in the world, is it? His brother would have been OK, a very competent man, IMO. But I don't think he has any real values either, he's just a modern, power-driven, pragmatic politician.

I normally vote Lib Dem or Green. It'll be Green from now on (I don't think the LDs are doing anything particularly wrong in the Coalition as many others do, I just can't vote for people once I've seen them parroting their bullshit 'lines to take' on Question Time - I know when their doing it, because sometimes, I've drafted them!).

In reply to KTT: Any leader would have a hard time following Blair and Brown, between them they managed to discredit both 'New' and 'Old' labour - and the unions won't win any new supporters for them from the when they react to the cuts, however justified.

Labour are going to need to create a new vision, then sell it like hell. I'm not sure they have anyone at the moment capable of that.

In reply to KTT: I voted Tory and will again.

Ed scares me, in a different country he'd be some communist dictator "Red Ed" indeed. Luckily he’s also useless as a leader so I'm quite happy to keep him as he’s never going to let labour get back in a ruin everything.

Bit too soon to make a call but I'd be gutted if Labour took power back at the next general election. The Conservatives need one term to sort out the mess and another to bring the country back to greatness.

In reply to Lord_ash2000: What would 'greatness' look like?

In reply to KTT:

I think Ed seems ineffectual, I voted Liberal. I usually vote either Green or Liberal, more Green now though, because green(er) energy and changing our impact on the planet are the key issues at the moment I think. Whether we like it or not we need to change how we live in this country.

We need to try and work out how now, before we countribute much more towards us all being f*cked. I think it's as stark as that sadly, that the urgency can't be overstated.

Cheers
Tim

In reply to Lord_ash2000:

I'll crack the jokes.

In reply to KTT:

Ed Miliband is completely ineffective, just a caretaker frontman while Labour lick their wounds and work out how to regroup. (Lib Dem).

In reply to KTT:

Boring, spineless, wooden man.

In reply to KTT:

sorry, who is he again?

In reply to dissonance:

He's a bit like Ed Miliband, but before the redistribution of Ls.

In reply to KTT: Ed who?

I'm a reluctant Tory voter (postal vote from Aus)

My constituency is predominantly Lib Dem, Labour are no hope in the seat. Also I vote against Cornish nationalism for personal reasons.

In reply to KTT:
I voted tory and am relieved that Ed's opposition is so ineffective, considering the repeated nervous bungling of the government. We tories always knew that Cameron's main (only?) strength was to be electable, but unfortunately he didn't quite even manage that...

In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Ah, so you voted Labour then

In reply to KTT:

I scarcely know who he is, but yes, he's a dead duck.

I voted Liberal Democrat - the election result was a bit of a surprise.

In reply to KTT:

Ed who?

I voted Liberal. I think though the Coalition is the right answer for the country at present.

In reply to KTT:


Looks like the bullied kid at school. You just want to give him a dead leg and maybe flush his head in the toilet.

Regards

D

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:


They don't, there are still too many snivelling acolytes from the Blair and Brown era pulling the strings in the party and until they are put out to pasture or fecked off to the back benches their fetid stench will dominate the party and Labour will never be electable. They will go through several years of navel gazing and party infighting before someone unknown who did not study PPE at Oxbridge comes to the radical conclusion that a party that actually looks out for the working classes, champions the equality of opportunity and resists spin laden special interest group identity politics might actually be an attractive option.

In reply to Cú Chullain:
They will go through several years of navel gazing and party infighting before someone unknown who did not study PPE at Oxbridge comes to the radical conclusion that a party that actually looks out for the working classes, champions the equality of opportunity and resists spin laden special interest group identity politics might actually be an attractive option.

John Prescott?

In reply to Postmanpat:

Or god forbid, that f*cking harpy Machiavellian hypocrite Harriet Harmen

In reply to Cú Chullain:

Harman is surely the archetypal Nulabour special interest indentity politics proponent?

The problem is simply that the (Nu)Labour party establishment despises the values of the traditional tabloid reading British working class. It is precisely those values they have spent decades trying to undermine. Milliband went to school with Boris Johnson but probably has even less empathy with ordinary people.

So how are they going to be the champions of ordinary people when they despise them?

In reply to Dauphin:

I thought that, I can easily imagine his MPs behind him in the Commons flicking spitwads at the back of his head with their rulers.

In reply to Postmanpat:

When the shat upon grass root members of the party finally clean out the Augean stables that is Nu Labour. When Islington based champagne socialist wankers who cheered on NuLabour at every turn are told to shove their sanctimonious 'we know best so you thickie working class oiks better just do as we say' attitude up their pig headed arses.

In reply to Cú Chullain:

They then face the problem that the "traditional working class" of the unionised industrial sector doesn't exist anymore so what is their natural constituency? Public sector bureacrats? Binmen? (sorry,binpeople)

In reply to Postmanpat:

This is true, most 'working class' folk read red tops and vote Conservative!

In reply to KTT:

The consensus that appears to be developing on this thread is that Ed Miliband is doing very poorly. However, from reading people’s responses you would also imagine the last election was a Tory / Lib Dem hung parliament as no-one seems to have admitted to voting Labour.

I am a Labour supporter, though not party member.

I think Ed is doing okay at the moment. Bo opposition has ever come out with detailed plans so far ahead of an election, they always concentrate on mood music. So far Ed’s geekiness works for him and against him. He comes across poorly against Cameron’s PR onslaught, but likewise PMQs has been used to highlight Cameron’s superficiality and lack of grasp of the issues.

Ed needs to define what his vision of the Labour party is – so far that is woefully lacking. I suppose the results of the policy review will help here.

In reply to KTT:

I reckon Ed's just a caretaker and his brother David will come on strong in a leadership contest before the general election after next.

In reply to KTT:

He doesn't have to do much to make Cameron look like a U turning slime ball who can't stick to any single policy.

He isn't a good leader though.

Voted Lib Dem and now hate myself.

In reply to Chris James:

He is not a natural leader but apart from that his problem is that "Nulabour" is discredited and returning to "old Labour" is not a viable option. Cameron has actually stolen quite a lot of the other potential ground.

Until Labour have come up with a new alternative set of policies it is pretty difficult for any leader to lead an credible opposition. Ed may be the guy to develop the policies but one suspects somebody else will take the baton and run with it.

In reply to teflonpete:


not sure his brother really beats him in the personality/competence stakes.

In reply to KTT:

EM reminds me of Michael Foot in a sharp suit, or Kinnock without the ginger and welsh accent. Add in an insufferable nasal twang and a general disposition of Tory Boy. He plays opportunistic sixth form politics and his policies are thin on detail.

In reply to KTT:

Is Tory central office getting a bit bothered by the opinion polls?

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/category/yougov

Of course the consensus on Ed isn't that great but he's got months if not a year or two to turn that round.

In reply to Shani:


Isn't he supposed to be getting his adenoids done over the summer?
I'm sure that will make him much more effective as party leader

In reply to teflonpete:

I think that is extremely unlikely. What extra does David have to offer? A slightly more photogenic face / less adenoidal speech?

Policywise - such as it is possible to judge from any pronouncements he has made - he just seems to be the Blair continuity candidate, which scarcely recommends him to the rank and file Labour supporters and doesn't really differentiate him from the Cameroons / Orange Bookers. Admittedly Ed Miliband has yet to come up with any firm initiatives, but he at least seems to be considering what 'Labour' should mean in the 21st century.

David Cameron has settled well into the PM's job and looks the part, so it is easy to forget that his early years as Conservative Party leader were charcaterised by sections of his own party briefing against him, portrayed as a policy vacuum, and being lampooned in the national press for husky rides and hug a hoodie initiatives.

The polls are currently showing Labour ahead and the government have a very low approval rating. This is during what would normlaly be a honeymoon period for a new administration and before most of the announced cuts have even been implemented. It is arguable how good Ed Miliband will even have to be in order to do well in the next General Election.

In reply to Postmanpat:

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that a return to ‘old’ labour is desirable.

In many ways, ‘Nulabour’ has been co-opted by Cameron and Osborne, hence them bineg keen to involve, or again the improval of, Blairites like … erm … Blair!, Hutton, James Purnell, Andrew Adonis. It was, after all, Cameron who described himself as the heir to Blair.

I think there is plenty of ground that Labour can take. I agree that Ed Miliband needs to set out what he sees as the defining values and principles of HIS Labour party. That is still not clear, and in the meantime the Conservatives are happy to try to fill the blanks in by suggesting that Labour stands for financial mismanagement, huge levels of waste in public expenditure, uncontrolled immigration, soft on the unions, etc, etc

What Miliband doesn’t need to do, in my opinion, is set out specific policies until we actually get to the enxt General Election.

In reply to KTT:

My typing is dire. I hope someone can make some sense out of the two posts above!

In reply to Mark Bull:

I'd do his adenoids for him, if they let me enter from the back of his head. He strikes me as a bedwetter.

In reply to Chris James:
You might want to drop Al Evans a line

In reply to Chris James:


Ed's princple :

"I really, really, really want to be prime minister, because I feel I'm entitled to it, and people in Islington agree. I'll do or say anything, promise anything to everyone if I think (frequently totally erroneously) it will increase the chances of this happening"

as for my other principles, er, er, can you come back in 9 months and tell me what they are. Or what you (floating voters) want them to be.

Legal Note : there is no expectation that there will be any evidence of these principals surviving more than 5 minutes, in the event that I am elected, see previous court case "there is no legitimate expectation that manifesto promises will be honoured"

In reply to Simon4:

In all fairness, that's the one policy common to all political parties.

In reply to Simon4:

Exactly. He also seems to have failed to account for Labour's part in creating the financial mess this country is currently in.

In reply to KTT: Keep politics out of climbing forums.

In reply to BP:

It's not a climbing forum. It's "off belay". The clue is in the name.

In reply to KTT:

"Ed Milliband, your thoughts?"

i didn't realise he posted on UKC...

would you not be better emailing him for them...?

In reply to KTT:

Can't see anything wrong with Ed Milliband...but then again, I'm not after a "personality" in a leader. If you want a celebrity with a certain physical appearance then I gues you wouldn't like him.

Lib.Dem anway.

In reply to David Martin:

given that leadership requires a certain amount of personality, to inspire, persuade, and, well, lead, i dont think its entirely an irrelevance. as long as it is backed up by something more substantial.

strikes me as a nice enough bloke, Ed. I'd happily debate the issues of the day over a pint with him. Not sure he's got the, well, leadership qualities he needs to be a party leader

Early days, he could prove the doubters wrong; but i'm not sure he'll get the time, when the comparisons to IDS are being made on newsnight, the game is pretty close to being up