UKC

Hi there.

Just discussing with my housemates about possible dry tooling crags in the Lakes, We cant think of anything suitable at all !

Does anyone know of anywhere wear we can dry tool without causing damage to routes and rock that people may want to trad climb on.

Cheers.

Pete.

In reply to Petarghh: leave it! why don't you try rock climbing?

In reply to jimjimjim: we do plenty of that, we were looking for somewhere to train ready for winter ! plus you can dry tool in the rain when you cant trad climb

In reply to Petarghh:

You can trad climb in any weather; just drop the grade and enjoy

In reply to craig h: I think this misses the point of the thread somewhat

In reply to Petarghh: Have you tried those climbing wall ice axes with wooden handles and the rubber loop at the end? Great for specific training and very climbing wall friendly. I don't know where to get them at the moment but they look very easy to make if you have the skills
James e

In reply to Petarghh: I think you're missing the point of the gentle mick taking somewhat...

In reply to Petarghh:

Not realy as this is what I replied to from you;

'plus you can dry tool in the rain when you cant trad climb'

Hope that help's

In reply to jimjimjim: hahaha, no no I understood that using the UKC swear word "Drytooling" I would incur some piss taking.. But I was after genuine information, before I set off up Napes Needle, axes in hand, Darts strapped to my boots

In reply to Petarghh: well i don't think there are any places for it. Chip some morter out your house, set something up in a shed, find a dead standing tree or just go rock climbing until it gets cold like the rest of us. Millstone in the peak is popular though!

In reply to Petarghh:

Crikey, it has started already, I'd better get the sweepstake up and running.

wrt drytooling crags, there are a number of venues suitable for development. Have a look around. Some suggestions to get you started:

the road cut on the old a66 by bass lake
the caves and tunnels around tilberthwaite and little langdale (not the main quarries before someone starts!)
the tunnels in the coppermines valley
the limestone quarry above caldbeck
the cuttings/walls on the side of the keswick threlkeld cycle track
areas of bowderstone quarry (careful here)
maybe even the magnificent, classic climbing venue that is dalt quarry
Fat carol's butt cheeks (if you have to ask, you don't need to know)
My neighbour owns some land with a disused quarry on it that I will be checking out at some point. I am a selfish sod and will keep that to myself if any good.

Think off the beaten track and there are plenty places to at least look at.

Personally I would not bother equipping any of the venues mentioned, just set up a toprope and play around.

Oh dear, that is two ukc swearwords in one post.

In reply to 3leggeddog: Cheers for that !! in the mean time I've made some ghetto schmoolz out of some old fusions and car fan belts !

Got high hopes for this winter, so really need to get some specific training done !

If you mean Seat Quarry (NY 284 402), please be aware that there are quite a few established rock climbs in it (which will be in the forthcoming FRCC guide, Eden Valley & South Lakes Limestone). If you mean the quarry slightly closer to Caldbeck (NY 304 408) that off road motorcyclists muck about in then there are no climbs in that one, nor likely to be, so dry-tooling should not be a problem (at least with rock climbers).

In reply to Stephen Reid: I remember going to Hewer Hill Qy (NY 372 392) back in 1987 as it was mentioned in Stew Wilson's original North of England guide as a minor crag. I recall it being quite big and ledgy and noted it had potential for 5 or 6 routes. I never went back so it probably didn't strike me as a particularly worthwhile rock climbing venue? My map shows it as access land so you should be able to climb there although I do recall lots of broken clay pigeons on the ground (duck!).

In reply to Petarghh: the locals definitely have a DT outside venue , try the epicentre lads

In reply to Petarghh:

pick a wet day c ordinary is doable as is corvus try a scramble pinnacle ridge comes to mind as does cam crag ridge

In reply to Petarghh:

Gimmer crag is apparently in vogue these days - it used to be Gable Crag but that's become a bit old school





Ask a friendly local first though!

In reply to Karl Lunt:
>Hewer Hill Qy (NY 372 392)
here are some pics
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/776486
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/776489
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/776494

Lots of trees to top rope from.

In reply to Petarghh:
You would probably be ok at Jeffrey's Mount near Tebay where the ice climbs sometimes form in winter. There's a few lines that would be OK with a top rope from trees above. I think the finishing moves would be a bit poor if you want to lead. Just beware the geology students who sometimes gather at the bottom.

In reply to 3leggeddog:

Seat Quarry mentioned by Stephen Reid is managed by the Lake District National Park and is part of Tenants Common - I have been in contact with them re climbing there and sorting belays and possible bolting - suggest keep off for dry tooling.

Head End is another quarry near Caldbeck - used much by groups and again keep off for dry tooling

Hewer Hill looks like might be worth a look _ I went there years again to check for the guide but did not go back.

In reply to Ron Kenyon:

The quarry I was thinking of was called Caldbeck Moor quarry, I think it was mentioned in Stew Wilsons guide. I did visit once to go bouldering, I walked straight back out again without getting my shoes out of my bag, a terrible place.

It is interesting to notethat no one has jumped to the defence of the mighty Dalt Quarry. This could provide an ideal venue, already equipped, hidden from view, probably best climbed in the winter when the disgusting pond has frozen over! Good to go?

In reply to 3leggeddog: I agree with Ron and Stephen, Caldbeck Moor or Seat Quarry should be left alone as there are routes in there, though they may be short.

Someone has been dry tooling in there already and scratched and scraped their way along the bottom of many of the routes. Shame.

Its worth noting that people have also been dry tooling in Tilberthwaite and Trowbarrow. I don't think there is any reason for you to leave a scratched up mess for everybody else, especially if you have tools that you can train on inside.

In reply to CragRat11:
Really? Whereabouts? It's one of my local crags and I haven't noticed anything untoward lately (unlike at Farleton). It's a nature reserve and parts are a SSSI so damage is taken seriously.

In reply to Karl Lunt: Noticed it at Trowbarrow a while ago, so may have lichen etc on it now from winter. Along the side of the path as you walk toward the carabiner gate.

In reply to CragRat11: Thanks - I know where you mean. That may not actually be within the reserve (although it's a natural rock face, part of a fault feature called The Trough). Not that this excuses the morons who will likely care not a jot.

In reply to 3leggeddog:

We were at Seat Quarry last night.

There was a general feeling that the quarry is at the bottom end of quality scale. I have had a few sessions there and have surprisingly enjoyed myself there sometimes. The rock does require a gentle touch !! - sort of mini-adventures.

Have agreed it will be going in the new guide with a health warning and no stars - though there are some good (that is relative) routes there.

There were scratch marks along the bottom of the main buttress - I can't get my head round who would want to do this. Seems like the guy (or gal) climbing had crampons on and no ice axes as I could not see any scratches higher up.

How about a reverse situation with using ice axes and just have big boots on ?

This is similar to years ago when I remember being at the Uni Wall in Leeds and Alex MacIntyre can along to the wall with his mountain boots and climbed with them (no axes though)

Back to Seat Quarry again - with a bit more use it could become a lot better with the loose rock coming of or maybe not with the whole crag being dismantled bit by bit. Time will tell. May be use of axes will help in this process !

In reply to Petarghh: there is a tiny little quarry just outside of rydal going towards keswick. we used to use it for absailing but i know people do use it for dry tooling. If you go past the badger pub there is a car park on the right in a larger quarry. to get to the smaller one you park here and walk up the hill to the right of the car park. the small quarry is about 50m up the hill.

In reply to Karl Lunt:
I did a few routes there in about 1970, you are correct in that it is ledgy and loose, hence they were never written up. Perhaps dry toolers will be able to clean it up (or die under tons of limestone that fell on their heads?)

bowfell buttress, heaps of other folk seem like they are trying to knacker that route by srcaping it to bits. it now looks terrible.

In reply to Trevor Langhorne:

or break their ankles when they fall onto the ledges.

In reply to Petarghh: Sorry to be an old fart, but what is this 'dry tooling' all about.

I'm sure I've done my fair share in the past on big mixed routes in the alps, but that was out of necessity, not choice or desire.

Is it therefore to hone your mixed winter/alpine skills, or is it a discipline in it's own right?

Both !

In reply to jas wood: Doesn't that pose some ethical dilemmas regarding damage to crags, or do you stick to crags of no real merit for climbing?

In reply to Petarghh: I know of a secret place: mark@newroutesadventure.com

In reply to Goucho: certainly does pose some ethical questions, i would like to add although i'm a winter climber i have never dry tooled BUT if a venue was deemed acceptable by the majority i would consider using it for training.
Can see in the future though people saying "if i can tool on crag X why can i not tool on millstone" I KNOW the reasons why !

In reply to Goucho: It is indeed to train for winter mixed climbing and alpine stuff, I wouldn't go out to "Dry tool" as a sport in its own right.

and the whole idea of the thread was to build up a list of locations to tool without causing any issues.

In reply to jas wood:

you mean like newtyle or white goods or masson?

plenty of places for DT to be done. if people wanna do it they just have to understand that its not acceptable at venues used for rock climbing and this usually then requires them to get on with developing an area themselves.
this requires lots of work in terms of clearing loose rock and bolting lines, drilling placements maybe required and just generally making the crag safe (the reason rock climbing hasn't taken place there...).

it takes a lot of work to do this and unfortunately you will always get people unwilling to do the hardwork or travel to established venues and therefore hope to just "get away with it" on their local crags when people arent looking.

In reply to tom290483: never underdstood the need for bolts ? surely for training purposes a top rope is sufficient no ? I have heard of the crags you mention and would use them before winter i dare say but way to far for me to travel to !

i,m not neccasarily against dry tooling i just think *some* people can't understand climbing crags are not fair game !

In reply to jas wood:

most DT venues are on chossy rock (white goods..) or even completely featureless (the tube @ newtyle) hence sometimes the need for drilled slots for axe placements.


physiologically yes, psychologically no. i dont top rope in the winter so why should i top rope in training unless i'm attempting a redpoint?
taking falls is all apart of the training/learning process.

In reply to Petarghh:

The Coppermines tunnels near Coniston could be seen by some to be of historical importance, so perhaps not a good idea to drytool in them.

Cheers
Tim

In reply to tom290483:I personally think falling onto a bolt on overhanging terrain won't prepare you for a big lob on a winter route onto suspect tackle, i'd even suggest it could lure you into a false sense of security.

Would like to add i do understand the importance of DT and the resulting rise in standards of hard mixed routes.

In reply to Petarghh: St Bees Head. Plenty of stuff there.

In reply to jas wood:


I have banged me knee and back up a bit taking big lobs in winter ...but you would be bloody unluck to land on your tackle suspect or not ... <wince !!>

In reply to jas wood:


Nothing prepares you for that! Best avoided...

But lots of hard winter routes feature nails moves next to bomber gear, so I don't think practicing or even taking falls should be a compete taboo.

In reply to jas wood:

very true. which is why i personally tend to rather enjoy european sport mixed!

scotland is a bit too much big balls and big beards for me

In reply to tom290483:

Awe Tom loads of numbers...i was on your side for a bit then ..but now you have said that ...pft....get thee away from White goods and take your heathen axes with you ... I couldnt grow a beard if I tried

In reply to Timmd:

This is where the DT argument gets silly. A man made tunnel which few people, if indeed anyone visits and there are objections. The horse has bolted, people go DTing, objecting to the use of this sort of venue has the potential of leading to more Millstone incidents.

In reply to Petarghh: Someone mentioned Dalt Quarry, it has some lovely little lines so I would urge everyone to avoid DT here.

However, OP if you drop me a mail I noticed a quarry that I want to contact the land owners about, could be worth looking into.

S

In reply to 3leggeddog: Lol, it is starting early. The next thread will be "is ***** route in winter condition". I love this time of year when its wet and we're all itching

In reply to 3leggeddog:

Man made tunnels which are part of the industrial history of the Lake District and of the uk, they could be seen as part of our heritage.

I've seen people with head torches and caving gear going towards the tunnels on a number of occasions.

If you look online you'll see that people do go exploring down the old coppermine tunnels, there's maps and information about them.

Cheers
Tim

In reply to Ian Black:

me too. in a perverse way i almost wait for someone (hi callum) to go tool something really controversial, just to watch the sparks fly.

its funny too how boulderers, deep water soloists, sport climbers and alpinists all flock to europe, but dry toolers prefer to risk being beheaded in a british carpark for a few scratchy routes in the rain whilst the suns still out on the continent and drytooling is accepted.

In reply to sasmojo:

I really have seen it all now, that comment supercedes the "I had my best day's climbing at horseshoe" I read last year!

In reply to ice.solo: Winter is an odd sport, in the sense that you have climbing walls all over the country where you can do specific training in order to grow confidence and strength, for example if i were working towards some hard crimpy trad route, i can go to the gym set out some hard crimpy problems and get used to making similar moves on those holds.

apart from paying extortionate prices at the ice factor, there is no where to practise ice climbing, and apart from scratching your way up some choss in summer, there is no way of getting a feel of that bomber tool placement,

I dry tooled last year in Keswick walls competition and found that the one session a month greatly improved my confidence (I went from bimbling up grade III gullies to technical 5 and 6 routes in the space of a few months), and i hope to progress even further this winter.

Winter mixed climbing and dry tooling are very niche sports at the moment, and i doubt you will please everyone in saying that you can dry tool in that specific location. but it would be nice to get a few local crags where it was generally accepted to go and train, without all of these pointless arguements that seem to arise from the subject...

UKC could even include a "ticklist of crags where you wont get murdered for approaching tools in hand" on their logbook page !!

Pete.

In reply to Petarghh:

hey pete

you already know the established tooling crags so i wont list them again. as you say, winter mixed and drytooling are niche sports (drytooling is still a very new element of climbing) so it will take time for people to get used to the idea of people wielding axes in summer.

in terms of tooling crags it would be great if we had a raven tor type location that we could all use axes on but its not gonna happen. the french are gits.....http://dry.tool.style.free.fr/crbst_33.html

best thing to do is locate a suitable venue with no established rock climbs, get a crowbar, drill, bolts and go forth and create!

oh...and dont ask for permission on UKC. The worlds most chossy overgrown horror show of a crag is still too good for tooling on for a lot of people around here.

In reply to Petarghh: Hi Pete, I completely agree. Yes tooling is a niche sport, but it is a sport in it's own right. If only more people took it on like the europeans then maybe we'd have some more venues we could use without being hunted down. 1 quarry where I tool a tetanus jab is needed, but at least it gets yu on the tools. Like yu said, let's have a designated tooling spot on ukc, once the newness has worn off people will find something else to chelp about.

In reply to fil-p:

what do you mean by a designated tooling spot on ukc?

In reply to Petarghh: 3 star trad summer routes in scotland are also very popular winter routes such as finger ridge in Coire an t'Sneachda, cairngorms. Dry tooling shouldnt be accepted everywhere but you shouldnt feel guilty for practising it. well done for being so selective of your venues.

In reply to Tom290483: I mean as a forum category so people can discuss this topic for venues etc. I feel if it's there as an option where people can talk about areas being off limits or not, it might help tooling to be done properly and not wreck recognised routes/areas

In reply to Petarghh: surely there must be loads of manmade structures where a little bit of excessive pointing could produce a pick placement, railway bridges etc.