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I spent a nice day down on Peak grit yesterday but noticed a lot of people walking around in their rock shoes then just start climbing without cleaning the soles of their shoes.
DON'T DO THIS!!!!!!!!!
Having the soles of your shoes full of bits of grit is only going to polish and wear away the rock. It's also going to make it harder for you to climb as you've effectively got ball bearings under your feet.
Also the number of teams where both the leader and the second were climbing with a rack big enough for El Cap. What's that all about on a ten metre gritstone pitch? You only need one set of gear at the crag and you can see from the ground most of what you need on any given pitch.
ALC
DON'T DO THIS!!!!!!!!!
Having the soles of your shoes full of bits of grit is only going to polish and wear away the rock. It's also going to make it harder for you to climb as you've effectively got ball bearings under your feet.
Also the number of teams where both the leader and the second were climbing with a rack big enough for El Cap. What's that all about on a ten metre gritstone pitch? You only need one set of gear at the crag and you can see from the ground most of what you need on any given pitch.
ALC
In reply to a lakeland climber: I see that all over, in Northumberland where lots of the routes are really short , with maybe a half dozen placements people must think they are on a massive multi pitch. I think it's back to the old "all the gear no idea" thing, when I worked at a wall the same prats would be climbing auto belays with 10 extenders, slings neatly platted, a belay device, some tat for prussics and maybe a knife
In reply to a lakeland climber:
"DON'T DO THIS!!!!!!!!!"
YES SIR, NO SIR, THREE BAGS FULL SIR.
Get over yourself, who are you to tell anyone what to do? if you don't want to see it happening fXXk off and climb somewhere else.
If you cam up to me and had a go in the tone of this post I can tell you where I'd be sticking my nice clean rock boots.
Regarding gear, what effect does it have on you if someone is climbing a route with 20 cams and 50 quickdraws or climbing with a single nut on their harness?
Again, get over yourself !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (added for extra impact factor)
"DON'T DO THIS!!!!!!!!!"
YES SIR, NO SIR, THREE BAGS FULL SIR.
Get over yourself, who are you to tell anyone what to do? if you don't want to see it happening fXXk off and climb somewhere else.
If you cam up to me and had a go in the tone of this post I can tell you where I'd be sticking my nice clean rock boots.
Regarding gear, what effect does it have on you if someone is climbing a route with 20 cams and 50 quickdraws or climbing with a single nut on their harness?
Again, get over yourself !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (added for extra impact factor)
In reply to gethin_allen:
I think you are out of line with the get over yourself comment, it is very important to clean your feet before climbing as otherwise the rock will wear away much faster, regarding the gear, agreed, who cares how much gear people are carrying.
I think you are out of line with the get over yourself comment, it is very important to clean your feet before climbing as otherwise the rock will wear away much faster, regarding the gear, agreed, who cares how much gear people are carrying.
In reply to a lakeland climber: Agree with the foot cleaning, but how could you possibly know what gear you need? Horizontal breaks can take anything... Also it's much more important to have the right gear if the crux is 30 foot up, 300 foot up and a 10 foot run-out isn't such a problem.
In reply to MattG:
"it is very important to clean your feet before climbing as otherwise the rock will wear away much faster"
It's a fair point but it's the tone that makes the OP all wrong. Shouting "DON'T DO THIS" at people just isn't the way to go about things, try something along the lines of; "Please could people remember to clean their boots before climbing to reduce erosion of the routes.
And I'd bet that the OP wasn't watching people so closely that they could see every time the climber wipes their feet on their trousers.
"it is very important to clean your feet before climbing as otherwise the rock will wear away much faster"
It's a fair point but it's the tone that makes the OP all wrong. Shouting "DON'T DO THIS" at people just isn't the way to go about things, try something along the lines of; "Please could people remember to clean their boots before climbing to reduce erosion of the routes.
And I'd bet that the OP wasn't watching people so closely that they could see every time the climber wipes their feet on their trousers.
In reply to gethin_allen:
Another great Benefit of taking your rock shoes off between routes and only putting them on just before you set off (cleaned of course) is that this airs your feet and relaxes them, plus your rock shoes get an airing; good for reducing stinky rock shoe syndrome.
When warm I usually slip a pair of sandals on between routes or attempts.
Feels good too!
Another great Benefit of taking your rock shoes off between routes and only putting them on just before you set off (cleaned of course) is that this airs your feet and relaxes them, plus your rock shoes get an airing; good for reducing stinky rock shoe syndrome.
When warm I usually slip a pair of sandals on between routes or attempts.
Feels good too!
In reply to gethin_allen:
I have had someone point out that I should clean my soles before starting a route, only for my to point out the amout of dirt and grime on my trousers from doing just that.
> And I'd bet that the OP wasn't watching people so closely that they could see every time the climber wipes their feet on their trousers.
I have had someone point out that I should clean my soles before starting a route, only for my to point out the amout of dirt and grime on my trousers from doing just that.
In reply to Eagle River:
I have to do something to amuse myself on a long train journey!
As regards bob's other advice. On short single pitch routes it is a good habit to stand back and look at the route, work out the moves in your head and make an assessment of the gear you may need. With experience you get better at this.
The result is you will carry less gear, the gear you need, and the climbing experience will be more enjoyable, you will be lighter and more gymnastic and your chances of success will increase.
M
I have to do something to amuse myself on a long train journey!
As regards bob's other advice. On short single pitch routes it is a good habit to stand back and look at the route, work out the moves in your head and make an assessment of the gear you may need. With experience you get better at this.
The result is you will carry less gear, the gear you need, and the climbing experience will be more enjoyable, you will be lighter and more gymnastic and your chances of success will increase.
M
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
My boots could probably do with the fresh air but on grit the routes are so short that if you do this you spend half the time fiddling with your shoes.
I'm happy to just use a bit of spit and wipe my boots on my trousers.
My boots could probably do with the fresh air but on grit the routes are so short that if you do this you spend half the time fiddling with your shoes.
I'm happy to just use a bit of spit and wipe my boots on my trousers.
my 2p worth
not cleaning your boots craps up the holds for everyone else until the rock gets another washing down from the great british weather
not cleaning your boots craps up the holds for everyone else until the rock gets another washing down from the great british weather
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
birkenstocks are essential crag gear! save a lot o faffing with shoe laces and make you look like a geology professor
> (In reply to gethin_allen)
>
> Another great Benefit of taking your rock shoes off between routes and only putting them on just before you set off (cleaned of course) is that this airs your feet and relaxes them, plus your rock shoes get an airing; good for reducing stinky rock shoe syndrome.
>
> When warm I usually slip a pair of sandals on between routes or attempts.
>
> Feels good too!
>
> Another great Benefit of taking your rock shoes off between routes and only putting them on just before you set off (cleaned of course) is that this airs your feet and relaxes them, plus your rock shoes get an airing; good for reducing stinky rock shoe syndrome.
>
> When warm I usually slip a pair of sandals on between routes or attempts.
>
> Feels good too!
birkenstocks are essential crag gear! save a lot o faffing with shoe laces and make you look like a geology professor
In reply to gethin_allen:
Whilst personal behaviour and habits are an individuals choice, in your case Gethin it sounds like you are seriously under-performing because of these habits. A small amount of time airing your 'boots' would Pay dividends in increased performance and enjoyment.
Top tip: take a beer towel or small rag to clean your rock shoes rather than wiping them on your trousers. How you look and your self-image can also make you climb better.
I learnt thus many years ago off Mick the perfect man lovatt and jerry peel who always look dapper on the crag and as a result climb really well.
Ta
Mick
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC)
> My boots could probably do with the fresh air but on grit the routes are so short that if you do this you spend half the time fiddling with your shoes.
> I'm happy to just use a bit of spit and wipe my boots on my trousers.
> My boots could probably do with the fresh air but on grit the routes are so short that if you do this you spend half the time fiddling with your shoes.
> I'm happy to just use a bit of spit and wipe my boots on my trousers.
Whilst personal behaviour and habits are an individuals choice, in your case Gethin it sounds like you are seriously under-performing because of these habits. A small amount of time airing your 'boots' would Pay dividends in increased performance and enjoyment.
Top tip: take a beer towel or small rag to clean your rock shoes rather than wiping them on your trousers. How you look and your self-image can also make you climb better.
I learnt thus many years ago off Mick the perfect man lovatt and jerry peel who always look dapper on the crag and as a result climb really well.
Ta
Mick
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
..
Can't wait to tell the lads that if they bought their clothes from Carnaby Street instead of Shields Road they could have avoided all those hours of training.
Stop winding people up and go and get another beer.
..
> Top tip: take a beer towel or small rag to clean your rock shoes rather than wiping them on your trousers. How you look and your self-image can also make you climb better.
>
> I learnt thus many years ago off Mick the perfect man lovatt and jerry peel who always look dapper on the crag and as a result climb really well.
..>
> I learnt thus many years ago off Mick the perfect man lovatt and jerry peel who always look dapper on the crag and as a result climb really well.
Can't wait to tell the lads that if they bought their clothes from Carnaby Street instead of Shields Road they could have avoided all those hours of training.
Stop winding people up and go and get another beer.
In reply to JDal:
Can't get to the bar! Packed liked sardines on the 21:26 from kendal to bamford!
Seriously though, apart from dougie hall who pulled off the tramp look to great effect, what you wear whilst climbing can effect your performance. No one ever climbed 9a in Ron hills, now adidas is another matter, three stripes not only make you go faster but also pull harder, just look at sasha d!
Can't get to the bar! Packed liked sardines on the 21:26 from kendal to bamford!
Seriously though, apart from dougie hall who pulled off the tramp look to great effect, what you wear whilst climbing can effect your performance. No one ever climbed 9a in Ron hills, now adidas is another matter, three stripes not only make you go faster but also pull harder, just look at sasha d!
In reply to dan:
> (In reply to a lakeland climber) I see that all over, in Northumberland where lots of the routes are really short , with maybe a half dozen placements people must think they are on a massive multi pitch. I think it's back to the old "all the gear no idea" thing, when I worked at a wall the same prats would be climbing auto belays with 10 extenders, slings neatly platted, a belay device, some tat for prussics and maybe a knife
Let's be honest here maybe they weren't as weak as you In reply to gethin_allen:
OK, I can see a "Please" would have been nice in there but the point needs to be made forcefully. These parties were just walking up to the foot of routes and starting to climb without any cleaning of their footwear. Before too long a lot of the grit edges are going to make Stoney look rough! I had to field someone at Almscliff a couple of years ago as they decked out after just sliding off decent holds because they hadn't cleaned their soles.
As to the amount of gear, no it doesn't actually affect how I climb but each individual had more gear around their waist than did our tea of three combined. (I've plenty of gear but I don't take it *all* to the crag) For a ten metre gritstone pitch that you can view from the deck neither leader nor second require a double set of cams, a triple set of wires and fifteen quickdraws (that's each BTW not between them). For a start it's much pleasanter to climb - far less weight, much less faffing trying to find the right bit of gear(!). The usual excuse given for this is along the lines of "I don't like climbing on other people's gear".
Strange - I suppose it keeps the shops happy.
ALC
P.S. Gethin -genuine pity about Wales losing yesterday.
OK, I can see a "Please" would have been nice in there but the point needs to be made forcefully. These parties were just walking up to the foot of routes and starting to climb without any cleaning of their footwear. Before too long a lot of the grit edges are going to make Stoney look rough! I had to field someone at Almscliff a couple of years ago as they decked out after just sliding off decent holds because they hadn't cleaned their soles.
As to the amount of gear, no it doesn't actually affect how I climb but each individual had more gear around their waist than did our tea of three combined. (I've plenty of gear but I don't take it *all* to the crag) For a ten metre gritstone pitch that you can view from the deck neither leader nor second require a double set of cams, a triple set of wires and fifteen quickdraws (that's each BTW not between them). For a start it's much pleasanter to climb - far less weight, much less faffing trying to find the right bit of gear(!). The usual excuse given for this is along the lines of "I don't like climbing on other people's gear".
Strange - I suppose it keeps the shops happy.
ALC
P.S. Gethin -genuine pity about Wales losing yesterday.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
"P.S. Gethin -genuine pity about Wales losing yesterday."
I'm not a massive rugby fan having endured going to a school that had very high standards when it came to rugby (Jamie and Nicky Robinson both went to my school along with a few others of note) anyone who wasn't good at it got treated like a second rate citizen.
Saying that though I do follow it and would have liked to have seen Wales doing well in something and it's a real pain losing by one point when ten went begging due to average quality kicking.
"P.S. Gethin -genuine pity about Wales losing yesterday."
I'm not a massive rugby fan having endured going to a school that had very high standards when it came to rugby (Jamie and Nicky Robinson both went to my school along with a few others of note) anyone who wasn't good at it got treated like a second rate citizen.
Saying that though I do follow it and would have liked to have seen Wales doing well in something and it's a real pain losing by one point when ten went begging due to average quality kicking.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Other than posting what comes across as a grumpy old man style post what have you done to sort this out ? Did you speak to any of these people and educate them ? I hope you did, and i hope you didn't do it in the way you typed your post.
Other than posting what comes across as a grumpy old man style post what have you done to sort this out ? Did you speak to any of these people and educate them ? I hope you did, and i hope you didn't do it in the way you typed your post.
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
Too true Mick. Anyone who witnessed me and the shorts of ultimate power at Font this week should note that fashion and climbing grace go hand in hand.
no link available.
Too true Mick. Anyone who witnessed me and the shorts of ultimate power at Font this week should note that fashion and climbing grace go hand in hand.
no link available.
In reply to a lakeland climber: While I do agree with cleaning your shoes (It will also make the climbing easier). I think it's wrong to tell people what they should and shouldn't do in this scenario. WE as climbers erode the rock and chalk it up everytime you get on it. Unless your not going to climb on the rocks anymore then your no better than some one who climbs with dirty shoes.
As for the comment about gear, who cares what people do. Is a few extra grams really going to affect your climbing on a 10 metre route? Unless you know what your going to need, then surely its better to have more gear than you need, than risk using a poor placement because you left the rest of your rack on the ground.
As for the comment about gear, who cares what people do. Is a few extra grams really going to affect your climbing on a 10 metre route? Unless you know what your going to need, then surely its better to have more gear than you need, than risk using a poor placement because you left the rest of your rack on the ground.
In reply to nakedave:
"the shorts of ultimate power" sounds like a good route.
On a serious note, where can you buy these shorts? and are they made by Acapi?
"the shorts of ultimate power" sounds like a good route.
On a serious note, where can you buy these shorts? and are they made by Acapi?
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Totally agree regarding shoes.
1. You will climb better, rather than on bolbarings!
2. You won't knacker the rock
3. You will save money in the long term as your shoes won't knacker - pretty important as they are £100 a pop
Regarding the gear thing, it's up to the person. Not really sure why the seconds have loads though?!
Totally agree regarding shoes.
1. You will climb better, rather than on bolbarings!
2. You won't knacker the rock
3. You will save money in the long term as your shoes won't knacker - pretty important as they are £100 a pop
Regarding the gear thing, it's up to the person. Not really sure why the seconds have loads though?!
In reply to a lakeland climber: Agree about the shoes. Completely disagree about your attitude. If you came up to me and explained that in a nice way, I'd take it on board. Explain it the way you did on the thread and I'd tell you to eff off.
Re rack;
(1) Really, what does it have to do with you and why does it spoil your enjoyment?
(2) They might be decent climbers on a quick climb wishing to climb heavy
(3) They might be utterly crap climbers completely unsure of what they might need so carry everything while they learn rather than be short
(4) They might have far more money than sense and just like the clinking of the rack. So what? I am pretty sure almost every person on the planet does at least one thing better than you do it.......... but don't get holier than thou about it.
Just my thoughts.
Re rack;
(1) Really, what does it have to do with you and why does it spoil your enjoyment?
(2) They might be decent climbers on a quick climb wishing to climb heavy
(3) They might be utterly crap climbers completely unsure of what they might need so carry everything while they learn rather than be short
(4) They might have far more money than sense and just like the clinking of the rack. So what? I am pretty sure almost every person on the planet does at least one thing better than you do it.......... but don't get holier than thou about it.
Just my thoughts.
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
I guess I'm going to climb badly in my new berghaus velum jacket then? ;(
Bright blue and bright red....
> How you look and your self-image can also make you climb better.
I guess I'm going to climb badly in my new berghaus velum jacket then? ;(
Bright blue and bright red....
In reply to gethin_allen:
It would have been oh so different if they had thought to clean their shoes properly.
> (In reply to a lakeland climber)
> Saying that though I do follow it and would have liked to have seen Wales doing well in something and it's a real pain losing by one point when ten went begging due to average quality kicking.
It would have been oh so different if they had thought to clean their shoes properly.
In reply to a lakeland climber: At least you didnt see people cleaning their shoes by scraping the mud off on to the rock. what made it worse is they were the starting foot holds.
In reply to a lakeland climber: This is getting far more to the front of all our minds these days as we watch the craigs get ever more polished. I would think that the OP is getting a bit more shirty about it as he has probably noticed a big decline in a few years, as I have.When I saw someone seconding a route at stanage the other week not even thinking to even wipe his shoes with his hand it becomes ever more evident what is polishing the routes. I did tell him his boots had grit on them and he thanked me. Job done. A good plan to come on here and tell all I think.Also an indication of the building frustration of the people that have witnessed a big decline.Well said ALC.
The bit about the gear though! We have to watch allsorts of incompetence at the edges, that to me is a sign of not being too sure what your doing but not realy hurting anyone or anything.As for clothes I have seen both extremes of that with people climbing hard in mucky old gear, and people in spanking gear looking the part but havent a clue,but both having as much fun.Who cares about that it's surely the fun you have not the way you look.
The bit about the gear though! We have to watch allsorts of incompetence at the edges, that to me is a sign of not being too sure what your doing but not realy hurting anyone or anything.As for clothes I have seen both extremes of that with people climbing hard in mucky old gear, and people in spanking gear looking the part but havent a clue,but both having as much fun.Who cares about that it's surely the fun you have not the way you look.
In reply to Wonko The Sane: good shout better safe than sorry. Also if people at bottom look dodgy u might not want to leave half a rack stashed to be nicked if u can't to afford to replace it.
In reply to a lakeland climber: Buy an extra large pair of crocs from TKmaxx for £5. Wear them over your rock shoes when walking about.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Climbing with clean shoes certainly makes things a lot easier.
Don't know why seeing people carrying loads of gear bothered you. I often end up seconding with my rack on for short grit routes. Most of the guys I climb with have their own racks and it saves time not re-racking all the gear between routes. Although I usually pare my grit rack down to a set of nuts, about 6 draws, a few slings and screwgates, and whatever cams & hexes I thought looked useful from the bottom.
Climbing with clean shoes certainly makes things a lot easier.
Don't know why seeing people carrying loads of gear bothered you. I often end up seconding with my rack on for short grit routes. Most of the guys I climb with have their own racks and it saves time not re-racking all the gear between routes. Although I usually pare my grit rack down to a set of nuts, about 6 draws, a few slings and screwgates, and whatever cams & hexes I thought looked useful from the bottom.
In reply to Jimbo C:
In reality your just a gear fiend aren't you Jimbo.
We'll have to try and get out climbing some time after the last North Wales washout.
In reality your just a gear fiend aren't you Jimbo.
We'll have to try and get out climbing some time after the last North Wales washout.
In reply to stvredmond: Cant believe we saw that person doing that, madness. That is why most people take a towel or use there trousers if needed not the flipping climb itself. Wonder why everything is so polished lol.
In reply to gethin_allen:
Well, there is that too.
If it gets proper cold we'll have to visit N Wales or the Lakes (Scotland is too damn far to keep missing the good conditions)
> (In reply to Jimbo C)
>
> In reality your just a gear fiend aren't you Jimbo.
>
>
> In reality your just a gear fiend aren't you Jimbo.
>
Well, there is that too.
If it gets proper cold we'll have to visit N Wales or the Lakes (Scotland is too damn far to keep missing the good conditions)
In reply to Dave Warburton:
Some people prefer using their own gear and can't be bothered to take it all off their harness in between leads if they're seconding their mate.
Personally, I prefer not to have the encumberance of a rack unless I'm leading and thoroughly enjoyed climbing on coastal limestone on Saturday without any cams on my gear loops.
> (In reply to a lakeland climber)
> Regarding the gear thing, it's up to the person. Not really sure why the seconds have loads though?!
Some people prefer using their own gear and can't be bothered to take it all off their harness in between leads if they're seconding their mate.
Personally, I prefer not to have the encumberance of a rack unless I'm leading and thoroughly enjoyed climbing on coastal limestone on Saturday without any cams on my gear loops.
In reply to Dan1984:
I'm sorry but this argument is ridiculous. By extension you're arguing that there's no difference between climbing a route & smashing it apart with a hammer because they both cause damage.
There is a difference. In the latter case you are deliberately & avoidably spoiling many, many other people's enjoyment.
Refusing to clean shoes (along with chipping & drytooling at established venues) are all the behaviour of a small child who, instead of just taking a sweet from the shared bag, throws it on the floor so nobody else can have any. That's why it makes people so amgry.
FWIW if some knob were to react to a reasonable request (however phrased) with violence as gethin-allem suggests I for one would be wading in to defend the OP.
> While I do agree with cleaning your shoes (It will also make the climbing easier). I think it's wrong to tell people what they should and shouldn't do in this scenario. WE as climbers erode the rock and chalk it up everytime you get on it. Unless your not going to climb on the rocks anymore then your no better than some one who climbs with dirty shoes.
>
>
I'm sorry but this argument is ridiculous. By extension you're arguing that there's no difference between climbing a route & smashing it apart with a hammer because they both cause damage.
There is a difference. In the latter case you are deliberately & avoidably spoiling many, many other people's enjoyment.
Refusing to clean shoes (along with chipping & drytooling at established venues) are all the behaviour of a small child who, instead of just taking a sweet from the shared bag, throws it on the floor so nobody else can have any. That's why it makes people so amgry.
FWIW if some knob were to react to a reasonable request (however phrased) with violence as gethin-allem suggests I for one would be wading in to defend the OP.
In reply to i.munro:
I'd be with you. I know that the psychology is wrong giving direct orders and being so strident but how many times do people need to be told ffs?? The situation with dirty shoes is getting beyond a joke and the idea of someone threatening violence to someone pointing this out would cause me to assist on behalf of the person defending the rock.
I'd be with you. I know that the psychology is wrong giving direct orders and being so strident but how many times do people need to be told ffs?? The situation with dirty shoes is getting beyond a joke and the idea of someone threatening violence to someone pointing this out would cause me to assist on behalf of the person defending the rock.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
FWIW in the past I've told a fair few people to clean their shoes and I've never been punched or abused, normally a simple "sorry mate" and then they do the problem because their foot stuck on the hold they slid off last time. Funny how the vale of the internet makes people act.
It is fine to tell someone, and not beyond your perch, it damages the rock, and I want that to be sustainable, not just for me, but the people that come after me.
Who cares about the gear, sure it makes it easier, but if they make that judgment it's their call, doesn't do any damage apart from making them more pumpred.
FWIW in the past I've told a fair few people to clean their shoes and I've never been punched or abused, normally a simple "sorry mate" and then they do the problem because their foot stuck on the hold they slid off last time. Funny how the vale of the internet makes people act.
It is fine to tell someone, and not beyond your perch, it damages the rock, and I want that to be sustainable, not just for me, but the people that come after me.
Who cares about the gear, sure it makes it easier, but if they make that judgment it's their call, doesn't do any damage apart from making them more pumpred.
In reply to gethin_allen:
Average Quality? What would they have had to do to make it Poor? Same old story, we had our chances and didn't take them. Anyway, sorry to hijack your thread...
>
> Saying that though I do follow it and would have liked to have seen Wales doing well in something and it's a real pain losing by one point when ten went begging due to average quality kicking.
> Saying that though I do follow it and would have liked to have seen Wales doing well in something and it's a real pain losing by one point when ten went begging due to average quality kicking.
Average Quality? What would they have had to do to make it Poor? Same old story, we had our chances and didn't take them. Anyway, sorry to hijack your thread...
In reply to a lakeland climber:
It's sensible to not carry the weight of a rack of gear when seconding on grit.
Not sensible to copy me when doing so
1, Last route of the day, seconding Great Slab at Froggatt, realising I needed to shed as much weight as possible; clipped a load of gear onto a sling & left it at the foot of the route, fine except we didn't walk back past the foot of the route & I forgot about it until the next day when I unpacked my sack at home, lost around £350 quid's worth of gear
2, A mate failed to lead Cave Arete & lowered off, I wasn't planning to do it but was persuaded, so pulled the ropes down, tied on & set off, I clipped his 2 friends just below the crux and managed it surprisingly easily. I reached on my harness for a wire for the next runner & found nothing, cue a spot of faffing about lowering a loop of rope for some gear for the rest of the route.
It's sensible to not carry the weight of a rack of gear when seconding on grit.
Not sensible to copy me when doing so
1, Last route of the day, seconding Great Slab at Froggatt, realising I needed to shed as much weight as possible; clipped a load of gear onto a sling & left it at the foot of the route, fine except we didn't walk back past the foot of the route & I forgot about it until the next day when I unpacked my sack at home, lost around £350 quid's worth of gear
2, A mate failed to lead Cave Arete & lowered off, I wasn't planning to do it but was persuaded, so pulled the ropes down, tied on & set off, I clipped his 2 friends just below the crux and managed it surprisingly easily. I reached on my harness for a wire for the next runner & found nothing, cue a spot of faffing about lowering a loop of rope for some gear for the rest of the route.
In reply to a lakeland climber: Good points clearly (if abruptly) made. But be fair to the climbing population - most people out on the peak grit on the weekend were uni freshers...
In reply to jacobjlloyd: The university clubs know about ethics (or should do) there are far too many others involved to cheaply blame it mainly on students.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
As this is always a rather pleasant forum for the discussion of different ideas
Re: carrying a large rack on short climbs
There are definitely days out at almscliff where I’ll put the whole rack onto my harness for what is roughly a 15m route. I know it's enough to run all 4 pitches of dream of white horses together but:
Most of the time when climbing it's practising for other days when I'll be on sighting a proper climbing somewhere( I suppose I mean a route on a big wall or a difficult route where I’ll be at the top end of my skill level). I want to have practised every part of my climbing and that includes knowing exactly where every piece of my gear is exactly on my harness.
I want to have the minimum faff and practising every part of climbing helps.
Re: cleaning boots
You just spent £100 for the most high friction rubber on the market and then wonder up to the bottom of the crag with cow sheet and water all over the soles?!?!
For the love of god, CLEAN YOUR BOOTS!
As this is always a rather pleasant forum for the discussion of different ideas
Re: carrying a large rack on short climbs
There are definitely days out at almscliff where I’ll put the whole rack onto my harness for what is roughly a 15m route. I know it's enough to run all 4 pitches of dream of white horses together but:
Most of the time when climbing it's practising for other days when I'll be on sighting a proper climbing somewhere( I suppose I mean a route on a big wall or a difficult route where I’ll be at the top end of my skill level). I want to have practised every part of my climbing and that includes knowing exactly where every piece of my gear is exactly on my harness.
I want to have the minimum faff and practising every part of climbing helps.
Re: cleaning boots
You just spent £100 for the most high friction rubber on the market and then wonder up to the bottom of the crag with cow sheet and water all over the soles?!?!
For the love of god, CLEAN YOUR BOOTS!
In reply to Hat Dude:
Darwin awards etc.
> 1, Last route of the day, seconding Great Slab at Froggatt, realising I needed to shed as much weight as possible; clipped a load of gear onto a sling & left it at the foot of the route, fine except we didn't walk back past the foot of the route & I forgot about it until the next day when I unpacked my sack at home, lost around £350 quid's worth of gear
>
>>
Darwin awards etc.
In reply to i.munro:
Obviously a hammer is a bit extreme as that causes extensive damage. But just climbing the rocks erodes it more than natural weathering would. Most rock climbers can be quiete arrogant towards the sport and what they think they have the right to do... placing bolts, chalking holds, eroding rock etc.
I'm not saying you shouldn't clean your shoes and try to preserve routes (I agree with that completely), but for someone to scream at people to clean their shoes is a bit over the top, i'm sure if you educated people then they'd be more than happy to wipe them. Did anyone ask the people to clean there shoes or is this just another case of having a rant on UKC but no one was actually informed at the time. I bet it's probably the latter.
I bet there are plenty of non climbers out there who feel we are ruining the rocks just by being there, did you think that you may be spoiling their enjoyment before wiping chalk all over the rock, placing bolts, breaking flakes etc?
>
>
> I'm sorry but this argument is ridiculous. By extension you're arguing that there's no difference between climbing a route & smashing it apart with a hammer because they both cause damage.
> There is a difference. In the latter case you are deliberately & avoidably spoiling many, many other people's enjoyment.
>
> Refusing to clean shoes (along with chipping & drytooling at established venues) are all the behaviour of a small child who, instead of just taking a sweet from the shared bag, throws it on the floor so nobody else can have any. That's why it makes people so amgry.
>
> FWIW if some knob were to react to a reasonable request (however phrased) with violence as gethin-allem suggests I for one would be wading in to defend the OP.
>
> I'm sorry but this argument is ridiculous. By extension you're arguing that there's no difference between climbing a route & smashing it apart with a hammer because they both cause damage.
> There is a difference. In the latter case you are deliberately & avoidably spoiling many, many other people's enjoyment.
>
> Refusing to clean shoes (along with chipping & drytooling at established venues) are all the behaviour of a small child who, instead of just taking a sweet from the shared bag, throws it on the floor so nobody else can have any. That's why it makes people so amgry.
>
> FWIW if some knob were to react to a reasonable request (however phrased) with violence as gethin-allem suggests I for one would be wading in to defend the OP.
Obviously a hammer is a bit extreme as that causes extensive damage. But just climbing the rocks erodes it more than natural weathering would. Most rock climbers can be quiete arrogant towards the sport and what they think they have the right to do... placing bolts, chalking holds, eroding rock etc.
I'm not saying you shouldn't clean your shoes and try to preserve routes (I agree with that completely), but for someone to scream at people to clean their shoes is a bit over the top, i'm sure if you educated people then they'd be more than happy to wipe them. Did anyone ask the people to clean there shoes or is this just another case of having a rant on UKC but no one was actually informed at the time. I bet it's probably the latter.
I bet there are plenty of non climbers out there who feel we are ruining the rocks just by being there, did you think that you may be spoiling their enjoyment before wiping chalk all over the rock, placing bolts, breaking flakes etc?
In reply to a lakeland climber: I agree with you about shoe-cleaning, as it affects other people. Can't see what it matters to you what gear people carry with them though.
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
Whilst I 100% agree about shoe cleaning, I'll reiterate, someone TELLING me to do so would be met with short shrift. Someone asking/explaining it would be given complete courtesy and understanding.
Even if you dislike what someone is doing, the fact is, you no more own those rocks or have any more claim to them than they do. Politeness costs nothing.
> (In reply to a lakeland climber) I agree with you about shoe-cleaning, as it affects other people. Can't see what it matters to you what gear people carry with them though.
Whilst I 100% agree about shoe cleaning, I'll reiterate, someone TELLING me to do so would be met with short shrift. Someone asking/explaining it would be given complete courtesy and understanding.
Even if you dislike what someone is doing, the fact is, you no more own those rocks or have any more claim to them than they do. Politeness costs nothing.
In reply to Wonko The Sane:
What I was trying to say, you just put it alot better
> Whilst I 100% agree about shoe cleaning, I'll reiterate, someone TELLING me to do so would be met with short shrift. Someone asking/explaining it would be given complete courtesy and understanding.
>
> Even if you dislike what someone is doing, the fact is, you no more own those rocks or have any more claim to them than they do. Politeness costs nothing.
>
> Even if you dislike what someone is doing, the fact is, you no more own those rocks or have any more claim to them than they do. Politeness costs nothing.
What I was trying to say, you just put it alot better
In reply to a lakeland climber:
I like leading on my own rack, I know it and I know wheres it's been and how it's been cared for, and plenty of people I climb with feel the same way. Unless the route I'm seconding is hard I'd hardly be bothered to take it off between leads.
I like leading on my own rack, I know it and I know wheres it's been and how it's been cared for, and plenty of people I climb with feel the same way. Unless the route I'm seconding is hard I'd hardly be bothered to take it off between leads.
In reply to Dan1984:
Your sensitivity to the OP's turn of phrase is obvious and forms the major part of your posts.
The content of the OP does not get the same level of attention in your posts.
Couldn't you do something more constructive than clutter a thread about taking steps to reduce erosion with your sensitivities?
Your sensitivity to the OP's turn of phrase is obvious and forms the major part of your posts.
The content of the OP does not get the same level of attention in your posts.
Couldn't you do something more constructive than clutter a thread about taking steps to reduce erosion with your sensitivities?
In reply to mrjonathanr: Maybe my post came across worse than I was trying to make it sound and sorry if that is the case as I didn't mean to offend anyone. Not always easy on the internet. But i'll stop "cluttering" the thread if that's how you feel.
But like previously stated by someone else, that unless you own the rock then you have just as much right as someone else in what you do. While the OP may feel that it is really bad to climb with dirty shoes, I am sure there are plenty of things that all of us do that other people disagree with... Lots of trad climbers hate people who put bolts up... A lot of people hate the use of chalk etc... we are all at fault in causing damage to the rock.
But like previously stated by someone else, that unless you own the rock then you have just as much right as someone else in what you do. While the OP may feel that it is really bad to climb with dirty shoes, I am sure there are plenty of things that all of us do that other people disagree with... Lots of trad climbers hate people who put bolts up... A lot of people hate the use of chalk etc... we are all at fault in causing damage to the rock.
In reply to a lakeland climber: Lol, I've just read a few posts, it does sound ridiculous, in essence, fighting over a few pebbles on a shoe.
Can't be that hard to take a small brush and give them the once over before you fly, I do, well, the once over; the only way I fly is towards the ground heading for terminal velocity.
Can't be that hard to take a small brush and give them the once over before you fly, I do, well, the once over; the only way I fly is towards the ground heading for terminal velocity.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
I've felt for a long time that climbing trousers should have some towelling stitched to the inside of each leg, between the ankle and the knee.
Y.
I've felt for a long time that climbing trousers should have some towelling stitched to the inside of each leg, between the ankle and the knee.
Y.
In reply to Dan1984:
People who are eroding the rock through bad practice have no equal rights to those who don't. Talk to a tribologist: a sandy shoe will have an eroding effect hundreds or even thousands of times more than a clean shoe. Hence clean your shoes, lightly brush sandy holds, avoid climbing on damp soft sandstone, concentrate on precise footwork on soft sandstone etc. Chalk damage is trivial in comparsion but is also best avoided. Be a good ninja.
People who are eroding the rock through bad practice have no equal rights to those who don't. Talk to a tribologist: a sandy shoe will have an eroding effect hundreds or even thousands of times more than a clean shoe. Hence clean your shoes, lightly brush sandy holds, avoid climbing on damp soft sandstone, concentrate on precise footwork on soft sandstone etc. Chalk damage is trivial in comparsion but is also best avoided. Be a good ninja.
In reply to Offwidth:
Erm, I studied a block of tribology as part of my degree. You are mixing up relative wear with legislation protecting rock faces and deeds of ownership mate.
Someone eroding the rock more than another person has every much as much right as someone not doing so unless they own the rock or legislation prevents such actions.
Completely missing the point anyway. Practically no one is arguing that it's right to wear mucky shoes, just that being 'told off' by some Victor Meldrew type is not going to win hearts and minds. Certainly not mine.
> (In reply to Dan1984)
>
> People who are eroding the rock through bad practice have no equal rights to those who don't. Talk to a tribologist:
>
> People who are eroding the rock through bad practice have no equal rights to those who don't. Talk to a tribologist:
Erm, I studied a block of tribology as part of my degree. You are mixing up relative wear with legislation protecting rock faces and deeds of ownership mate.
Someone eroding the rock more than another person has every much as much right as someone not doing so unless they own the rock or legislation prevents such actions.
Completely missing the point anyway. Practically no one is arguing that it's right to wear mucky shoes, just that being 'told off' by some Victor Meldrew type is not going to win hearts and minds. Certainly not mine.
In reply to Wonko The Sane:
You didn't study very well then: the enhanced erosion is a fact and there is more to morals, rights, wrongs and responsibility than the law. Although I take your point on the VM issue who cares if the victim is an ignoramous damaging the rock.
You didn't study very well then: the enhanced erosion is a fact and there is more to morals, rights, wrongs and responsibility than the law. Although I take your point on the VM issue who cares if the victim is an ignoramous damaging the rock.
In reply to Offwidth:
And you don't appear to read too well. I've not seen a post saying the erosion isn't happening. Just lots of posts saying the tone of the 'request' is bang out of order, not to mention counter productive. Someone offering me advice at a crag would be given the utmost courtesy. Someone coming across like some of you lot would be told to eff off, probably with a 'who the f*ck are you?' and a 'do you own this place then?' thrown in.
> (In reply to Wonko The Sane)
>
> You didn't study very well then: the enhanced erosion is a fact
>
> You didn't study very well then: the enhanced erosion is a fact
And you don't appear to read too well. I've not seen a post saying the erosion isn't happening. Just lots of posts saying the tone of the 'request' is bang out of order, not to mention counter productive. Someone offering me advice at a crag would be given the utmost courtesy. Someone coming across like some of you lot would be told to eff off, probably with a 'who the f*ck are you?' and a 'do you own this place then?' thrown in.
In reply to Wonko The Sane:
It could be tricky to talk about wiping shoes at the crag in a harmonious way.
I guess something along the lines of it aiding friction on holds as well as lessening rock erosion would be best.
It could be tricky to talk about wiping shoes at the crag in a harmonious way.
I guess something along the lines of it aiding friction on holds as well as lessening rock erosion would be best.
In reply to Timmd:
You're right, but I susopect many of those climbing with dirty shoes don't even realise they're doing wrong and a friendly word explaining it would be met quite reasonably. Of course there are always idiots, but explaining to them or telling them probably wouldn't work.
> (In reply to Wonko The Sane)
>
> It could be tricky to talk about wiping shoes at the crag in a harmonious way.
>
> I guess something along the lines of it aiding friction on holds as well as lessening rock erosion would be best.
>
> It could be tricky to talk about wiping shoes at the crag in a harmonious way.
>
> I guess something along the lines of it aiding friction on holds as well as lessening rock erosion would be best.
You're right, but I susopect many of those climbing with dirty shoes don't even realise they're doing wrong and a friendly word explaining it would be met quite reasonably. Of course there are always idiots, but explaining to them or telling them probably wouldn't work.
In reply to a lakeland climber: I had never thought of dirty shoes polishing rock before, always do it to maintain friction on hard routes, but never thought of the damage I've been doing soloing about on classic grit VSs in my mucky trainers. Thanks for the lesson UKC!!! I shall pass on this sage advice, and take it to heart.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
The idea that a small rack makes you climb better should be viewed with caution. I don't think advice like leaving half your rack at home should be taken seriously.
Yes you should select a rack specific to the route you are going to do but if in doubt about a piece carry it rather than leave it behind.
I very much doubt people fail routes because they carry a few extra grams of gear. More often they fail because they don't immediately locate the correct piece of gear. Faffing and trying to place the next best option wastes energy and can lose you the onsight. Climbing with unfamiliar gear from your mates rack can have the same result. The perfect piece of gear doesn't do you much good if it is sitting in your pack at the foot of the route.
On short grit routes there are very few gear placements so having the correct piece for each placement is crucial. For this reason when I visit grit I often take extra duplicate cams to the crag. I take a big rack to the crag and then select from it.
The idea that a small rack makes you climb better should be viewed with caution. I don't think advice like leaving half your rack at home should be taken seriously.
Yes you should select a rack specific to the route you are going to do but if in doubt about a piece carry it rather than leave it behind.
I very much doubt people fail routes because they carry a few extra grams of gear. More often they fail because they don't immediately locate the correct piece of gear. Faffing and trying to place the next best option wastes energy and can lose you the onsight. Climbing with unfamiliar gear from your mates rack can have the same result. The perfect piece of gear doesn't do you much good if it is sitting in your pack at the foot of the route.
On short grit routes there are very few gear placements so having the correct piece for each placement is crucial. For this reason when I visit grit I often take extra duplicate cams to the crag. I take a big rack to the crag and then select from it.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Weren't me Guv. But if climbing 10m trad routes is practice for larger multi-pitch then climbing fully encumbered with gear and tat can be a good thing.
Not something I would get arsy about. Although there was a guy at the Castle once climbing with a full rack, all the shiny bits of gear held with rubber bands so they wouldn't get tangled.
> What's that all about on a ten metre gritstone pitch?
Weren't me Guv. But if climbing 10m trad routes is practice for larger multi-pitch then climbing fully encumbered with gear and tat can be a good thing.
Not something I would get arsy about. Although there was a guy at the Castle once climbing with a full rack, all the shiny bits of gear held with rubber bands so they wouldn't get tangled.
In reply to Dan1984:
It's not just you.
Wonko- if you were that tough you wouldn't get so threatened by a couple of capital letters on a keyboard.
It's babyish, just hear the message and take care of the place.
It's not just you.
Wonko- if you were that tough you wouldn't get so threatened by a couple of capital letters on a keyboard.
It's babyish, just hear the message and take care of the place.
In reply to mrjonathanr:
Maybe it's the internet: some get really angry that people get really angry about being really angry! Sad thing is, in the ensuing 'hot air' the message can get missed...
I'm pretty sure dirty shoe problems would all but disappear from our crags if we all politely reminded our peers when they seem to have forgotten. I'm sure most of these climbers (who have forgotten or never been told why its important) are not pent up with testosterone, waiting to punch someone delivering this message.
Maybe it's the internet: some get really angry that people get really angry about being really angry! Sad thing is, in the ensuing 'hot air' the message can get missed...
I'm pretty sure dirty shoe problems would all but disappear from our crags if we all politely reminded our peers when they seem to have forgotten. I'm sure most of these climbers (who have forgotten or never been told why its important) are not pent up with testosterone, waiting to punch someone delivering this message.
In reply to Offwidth:I am sure people just hang about on this and other forums, looking for someone to despise and shoot down in flames. We all know wiping your feet is a good idea now. But some people have just picked up on how it was said and thought they would have a go, even though they know he is talking more sense than they were born with." I don't like the way you said that so I am going to trash the place if I want to, you can't tell me what to do" in a typicly childish manor. GROW UP.
In reply to Offwidth:
Southern Sandstone, is a 'canary in a coal mine' for a lot of overuse issues like this & there ignorance really is no excuse as the code of practice is in all the guides & on signposts at all the sites etc,
There, my experience has been that you very often get the same 'make me then!' reaction in person.
I have found that offering to lend someone the crucial piece of equipment
is less confrontational but even then they often make a point of conspicuously carrying on with whatever they were doing ie stepping straight from mud to rock carefully avoiding the carpet that you've just lent them.
> Maybe it's the internet: some get really angry that people get really angry about being really angry! Sad thing is, in the ensuing 'hot air' the message can get missed...
>
> I'm pretty sure dirty shoe problems would all but disappear from our crags if we all politely reminded our peers when they seem to have forgotten. I'm sure most of these climbers (who have forgotten or never been told why its important) are not pent up with testosterone, waiting to punch someone delivering this message.
>
> I'm pretty sure dirty shoe problems would all but disappear from our crags if we all politely reminded our peers when they seem to have forgotten. I'm sure most of these climbers (who have forgotten or never been told why its important) are not pent up with testosterone, waiting to punch someone delivering this message.
Southern Sandstone, is a 'canary in a coal mine' for a lot of overuse issues like this & there ignorance really is no excuse as the code of practice is in all the guides & on signposts at all the sites etc,
There, my experience has been that you very often get the same 'make me then!' reaction in person.
I have found that offering to lend someone the crucial piece of equipment
is less confrontational but even then they often make a point of conspicuously carrying on with whatever they were doing ie stepping straight from mud to rock carefully avoiding the carpet that you've just lent them.
In reply to i.munro: I find a lot of old timers who call bouldering mats cheating. When it's the same old timers moaning about dirty feet. I find that a bit of a contradiction, when if you use a bouldering mat, the need to touch the ground between attempts is very much eradicated altogether when bouldering.
In reply to Phill Mitch:
Well I'm an old timer & I've never heard a pad described as cheating (at least in bouldering) I've got 3.
They don't , however, eradicate the need to touch the ground except on the minority of easy angled problems with no traversing . Nor are they any good for cleaning shoes.
I reckon cosiroc have it bang on here
http://www.cosiroc.org/spip.php?article11
Shoes, carpet & a rag are crucial bouldering kit. A pad 's a nice extra.
Well I'm an old timer & I've never heard a pad described as cheating (at least in bouldering) I've got 3.
They don't , however, eradicate the need to touch the ground except on the minority of easy angled problems with no traversing . Nor are they any good for cleaning shoes.
I reckon cosiroc have it bang on here
http://www.cosiroc.org/spip.php?article11
Shoes, carpet & a rag are crucial bouldering kit. A pad 's a nice extra.
In reply to Offwidth:
It baffles me that anyone would choose to boulder at a lower standard for the trouble of cleaning and squeaking their boots. But some do. The ubiquity of walls creates a different introduction to climbing and its skills than previously.
> (In reply to mrjonathanr)
> I'm pretty sure dirty shoe problems would all but disappear from our crags if we all politely reminded our peers when they seem to have forgotten.
> I'm pretty sure dirty shoe problems would all but disappear from our crags if we all politely reminded our peers when they seem to have forgotten.
It baffles me that anyone would choose to boulder at a lower standard for the trouble of cleaning and squeaking their boots. But some do. The ubiquity of walls creates a different introduction to climbing and its skills than previously.
In reply to i.munro: pads are often said to reduce the grade of badly protected routes. If that's not calling pads cheating, then what is it?
I was not suggesting they are good for cleaning your shoes, but to keep them clean.If you have three pads then you need never touch the floor again.
I was not suggesting they are good for cleaning your shoes, but to keep them clean.If you have three pads then you need never touch the floor again.
In reply to Phill Mitch:
It's calling them a form of protection.
> (In reply to i.munro) pads are often said to reduce the grade of badly protected routes. If that's not calling pads cheating, then what is it?
It's calling them a form of protection.
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