UKC

yees! needed another on my rack, a pretty nice one at that :P

In reply to anomm:
Post on the lost and found and see if someone else lost it.

In reply to anomm: cue the battle of the "its crag swag" and "every minute item found abandoned must be returned" mobs (puts tin helmet on)

In reply to Daniel James: have i opened up an old war? ahhh god, it better not turn out like those religious threads :L

In reply to anomm:

Far worse than religious threads im afraid. Religion isnt shiny and cool lookin.

Whered you find it?
On the ground and its probably dropped, so report it.
Clipped, then good chance its booty.

If you keep it, its only fair to sacrifice them yourself as anchors/lower offs.
Keeps em moving freerange in the system.

What comes as booty goes as booty. For that is the only law.

In reply to anomm:

you're not allowed to have an opinon, now stop it!

In reply to anomm:

Everyone has their view, and it's usually different to someone else's.

If I found a quickdraw, then I'd consider it mine, shoe's I'd post in lost/found.

I think the important thing is to be consistent, i.e. if I lost a quickdraw, then I wouldn't post in lost/found asking for it back

In reply to Tiberius: A very complex area of ethics I think. Worth some very detailed discussion and debate.

I think that the quickdraw lies on the very cusp of swag - lost & found. And as has been raised, whether it was sacrificed or not comes into play.

I would say: sacrificed = swag. Dropped/forgotten, up to the finder to search their soul for the answer. In these hard economic times, I think there's a good case for the Lost and Found. If you could be arsed.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Dropped/Lost I usually ask myself if I'd go back for it.

Last week I left a pair of shoes at the foot of horseshoe, realised when I got to the car and went back for them, a quickdraw I wouldn't have bothered.

Abandoned, if I need to abandon gear, that's my active decision, hence I would regard that I'm donating it to someone with more time/skill than me. If I actively abandon something then I don't see I have a claim on it once I've done so.

In reply to Tiberius:

But as I said, the important thing is to be consistent. If I find a quickdraw, then I'm keeping it, but if I leave on then I'm not asking for it back. Equally if I abandon gear, then I'm not going to say it's mine if someone retrieves it.

In reply to Tiberius:


Are you being serious? Jesus. This is why the system of 'do what you would want doing to you' doesn't work. I'd be well upset if i lost a QD and if I found one, i'd find it pretty difficult to risk losing it by offering it up to the person who left/lost it. Bottom line is that some people value gear more than others. If you value it more, you'll take better care of it, so the cycle of lost and found gear acts like a welfare state for poorer climbers.

In reply to ice.solo:


Which I suppose shows why this argument is rarely solved - single krab on a bolt says "bail crab, abandoned" to me, whereas I probably wouldn't remove a whole draw because, depending on location, grade etc, that says to me "left in situ for working" - obviously there's a grey area if it's on an easy route or in an easy to clip position, but on a hard route my default assumption would probably be that someone would be coming back to the route...

In reply to Franco Cookson:

The aesthetic value of a crag if far more important that a little debate of ownership! It's simple, just follow these two rules as often as possible:

Never leave gear behind

Always remove and keep any gear found

In reply to anomm:

it's all part of the climber kit exchange system. SCUBA diving has a very similar one.

In reply to anomm:

If you kept quiet it would have been legit swag but now you've boasted about it give it back!

In reply to anomm: it was at the top of a grade 6a sport climb, if it was anything more expensive i would post in lost and found but its only one draw.. Anywhays its MINE

In reply to anomm: I like the "welfare state for climbers" attitude a single QD at the top of a root suggests abandonment anyway. Enjoy!

In reply to Daniel James:

Top of a sport route suggest one of two things. Either they don't know how to re-thread (6a, it's possible, someone come from an indoor wall and was shocked to find no screwgates at the top )

Or, they got to the top of the route with only one QD left, now what you gonna do? Trust the one to hold you while you re-thread? Or just lower off it and abandon it?

Either way, it's legit swag in my view. I wouldn't ask for it back in either situation.

In reply to Tiberius:

Bloody hell mate, loaded much?! I was scrabling about at midnight round the dewerstone a few weeks back looking for a single nut that I left behind. It was a great feeling when I found it! Similarly spent an hour getting a nut out that I placed badly the other week. It's all part of the adventure and I can't be doing with the money to replace stuff.

Mine, Mine, Mine, Mine...

In reply to anomm:

I found a dropped prussic loop at Barcud last weekend, paid for my trip! :0)

In reply to anomm:

I always post lost/found gear, whatever it is.

Simply because I know how happy I am if i've lost gear and someone give's it back. I get a warm fuzzy feeling whenever I do it, and I value that more than another piece of gear......also because it's a random piece of gear, it wont fit perfectly in place on my size/colour arranged system on my harness and that would be madness!

In reply to Tiberius:


Normally, yes. (along with rope pulled up and tied off to belay loop so if the QD fails I'll be caught by the next bolt).

In reply to Kemics:

do you tuck your shirt into your underpants too?

In reply to ice.solo:

Yes. But my underpants are PVC and covered in rhinestones, so it balances out

In reply to anomm:

My views are reasonably well known on here I would suspect. I'll leave it up to your conscience, and that doesn't sound like its too bothered.

For what its worth I'll post here if I find anything that's not mine, not least becasue I don't know the history of someone else's gear and hence would never be really able to trust it. Personally I'd rather give it back to the owner than find out the hard way (wheeeeeeee... splatttt) that its been sitting in a pool of brake fluid for the last six months.

I still wonder occasionally if the person who nicked my rope from Manchester wall had a nasy accident as a result. I was about to retire it as I'd found some unpleasant wear on it and it had taken a lot of really quite impressive falls. Ah well, not my problem

In reply to anomm:

I think in this case we should try and establish who the rightful owner is, as a sort of piece of 'swag debate' fieldwork. We could ask the owner his (women don't climb) view on the topic?!

In reply to teflonpete:

Has anyone found one washed up near Astral Stroll, end of August onwards? I really could do with it back!

In reply to Kemics:

hey, did we meet last thursday at the crazy horse club?....never mind....

all class. im correct in assuming these rhinestones match the colour coding system of your quickdraws and rack, right?

In reply to Merlin:

worthwhile for the exercise.

like most here, ive both lowered off stuff i knew i wouldnt get back, plus dropped things and not realized till much later.

yeah, its a slight bummer, but ive always shrugged it off to the the lucky climber who finds it. its just part of the process.

in japan the common rule is you just either leave it, or if on the ground put it somewhere a returning climber may find it.

In reply to ice.solo:


Of course, I'm not a thug now am I.