UKC

Hello everyone.........Merry christmas!

Can I ask a favour?

When you are logging your winter ascents, it might be helpful for you to also record the conditions on the route in the comments. This would make the UKC winter conditions web page much more helpful than it currently is.

e.g. perfect neve romped to the top or tottering pile of rotten ice abbed of first pitch.

Feel free to agree/disagree.

Ta

Mike

In reply to mikedelderfield: AGREE! will be doing when in fort william over new year.. if there is a tottering pile of rotten ice to climb I will be pleasantly surprised!!

In reply to mikedelderfield: Agree, I have started doing this.

Cue folk getting flamed for writing "unfrozen turf", as I had to do recently.

R

In reply to Roberttaylor: Oh yeah, thanks for Menage a Trois info, did it before Christmas and it was excellent. It had really iced up in the week between our ascents.

In reply to MattG: Good to hear! Looks like it may see more ascents in one month than it has in the last five years.

In reply to Roberttaylor:


Doubt it, it's a very well-travelled route. The difference is that once upon a time it wasn't felt neccessary to tell the world about our every ascent. The end result is that logbook consumers form the (erroneous) opinion that the logged routes are the only ones in condition, which in turn has the effect of turning these routes into honey-pots.

In reply to James91: Bring your wellies and a snorkel. Arrived on Xmas eve and rained none stop. Poss snow flurries on wed. So conditions not good

In reply to fil-p: November and december are not known for being particularly reliable months in Scotland. The last two seasons were abnormally good early season.

In reply to mikedelderfield:

Giving the green light to the unimaginative drones that will descend on your prized route like a pack of hungry hyenas is just bad form, if it is a rarely forming ephemeral line, appearing once in a blue moon play the game, start spraying after the terminal thaw has set in, then watch the green eyed monsters, cry into thier pints.

The art of predicting when or if routes will be coming into nick takes years of experience and patience, fast food is for those more interested in the end result rather than that hard fought journey. Do not give these collectors of rare winter lines the opportunity to demean the craft of winter climbing with thier over inflated ego's, experience is hard won, there is nothing more soul destroying than seeing a line hacked beyond recognition, a line of steps, or perps following the hoovered groove after the event, self defeating surely..imposters.. the prize lies in the discovery of the unknown, following that pristine virgin line the outcome unsure, is surely the challenge. Adventure tourists can always spend a little of thier vast dispoable income on a guide.

Besides if you are looking for the conditions on the multitudes of trade routes, there is a plethora of available information on the web, i really can not see what is achieved by logging routes other than a stampede.

In reply to mikedelderfield:

PS the outlaws are round!

In reply to Conquistador of the usless:

Conversely, those without a vast disposable income can make a better informed decision about where to go and thus avoid an expensive waste of a trip.

And as there is already a plethora of available information, why not supplement it with further relevant and up-to-date info?

In reply to Conquistador of the usless:

That's great if you have the time and money to make an 800 mile round trip every weekend to catch the conditions or live in Scotland so can afford to waste so many days. Most people do not have this luxury and the more info that is out there will surely help the crowds spread out away from the trade routes. Oviously us 'adventure tourists' are less deserving of routes in decent nic though, and we bow down to your vast intellect and inflated sense of personal entitlement.

In reply to Conquistador of the usless: Not sure I entirely agree- a post-climb note about whether a route is 'thick or thin' is only like chatting in the boozer afterwards.

I do, however, agree with your idea that winter climbing involves applying hard won knowledge for yourself- not just for an "aesthetic" reason, but because it's a basic competence that keeps people alive.

In reply to tom_holdsworth:

His point is that it will not be in decent nick if you tell everyone about it as it will be busy, stepped out and bare. This has been seen quite a lot over the last few years, I saw the Steall Falls after someone posted to say how good they were two years ago. At one point there were 13 different people on the route at the same time.

If you have a great day on a route, telling everyone about it that evening means that the person in exactly the same position as you but a day later will not have such a good day due to the extra parties that will show up because of your recommendation.

In reply to jonnie3430:

On ice climbs it's almost become the case that you have to do the routes before they're fat as soon afterwards they're stepped out and crap.

On the plus side though, knowing that things are in nick is useful as you can then look at other stuff in the same area or on similar aspects and still have a pretty good day.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

Or, as happened recently, you could form the erroneous impression that Taxus was in condition, sketch up it on partially-frozen turf (it's a snow/ice route) and then log it so that more numpties could do exactly the same.

My own personal bugbear with the winter logbooks facility is the banner "see what's in condition, and what the prospects are". Looking at that list does neither. It tells you what was climbed between a day and five days ago, which may or may not still be there or have been any good in the first place, and which may or may not still be there in a day or two.

In reply to tom_holdsworth:

Back off, i have space issues! As the lows spiral in off the Atlantic, the pulse quickens, the autumnal limbo is broken in anticipation of early season cold.... to be fair the only info you really need, is has there been snow in the mountains and take it from there, if you are commited that is your choice, modern society places little value on perceived failure, you must embrace failure to succeed and be a better person for it.

In reply to Conquistador of the usless:

As I started the topic, I should wade in again. My point of view is pretty simple, but disjointed/rambling, as most of my thoughts are.

The info someone posts tells you the state of the route on the day, it is just one piece of information. You would need to be a bit dim to use this single piece of info alone & also assume that cos' the route was done three days before it is still in the same conditions.

As Michael G says the info can be applied to similar routes/aspects/elevations.

I live c250 miles from the highlands (perhaps I am a screaming Geoffrey or whatever you call them, tho I hope not), so I will take any info that is available. The only way I can assess conditions/best bets is remotely, I would like to have a good day out, I assume everyone goes out with the intention of doing a route (hopefully get to the top) rather than a 'hard fought journey'. Does it always need to be hard thought, perhaps sometimes enjoyable, bit of everything? A good day out can also be 'a hard fought journey' by the way.

The 'art of predicting...years of experience...patience' sounds a bit ludditesque (not a real word). Chill out, take it all in...get all the information...web...pub talk...years of experience...patience...whatever, all of them....why not?

It seems pretty easy to add a line when someone is updating their log book.

Perhaps I am wrong but I would suggest that most people have a route or a few routes in mind before they set off on the hill. Of course this should not be set in stone and reassessed once on the hill but the log books can help with the initial route choice.

As I said just information to be used as you wish. You are responsible for how you use it, if you have a good day out then good for you, if you don't then bad luck, depends how you use it.

What is 'outlaws are round'?

In reply to mikedelderfield:

'Hard thought' = hard fought.

Though perhaps the former is trickier at this time of night!

In reply to mikedelderfield: I suspect he is referring to inlaws who are out of favour.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

Ah yes, I am one often of those, tho not one of usless'.

In reply to jonnie3430:


Wow, you got one of the quiet days. When I was walking out (fortunately we'd had an early start) I counted over 60 people spread out over the route.

In fairness I think that situation would have played out with or without the internet.

I think the point about I've travelled X miles I don't want to waste a day is daft - nobody does, regardless of where they live. But that's part of the joy of Scottish Winter climbing; adapting, and it makes the great days all the sweeter, and adds to our overall experience on the hill.

I would imagine that what a lot of the wiley old mountain goats will be doing is quietly checking out the logbooks to see whats happening where and using that to supplement their own knowledge and experience, in a "well if people are going to put the info up, then I'd be silly not to make use of it" kind of way. Without feeling the need to tell everyone what they just climbed.

In reply to Paul035:
Not sure who mentioned 'wasted days out', sounds like any oxymoron to me in the context of mountains. I am happy to take crap weather & crap conditons given the alternative of doing nothing. Checking conditions info in logbooks, just like looking at the weather forecast/history, just like reading one of the local guides conditions summaries, just like looking at SAIS, just like assessing conditons on the ground & recalling past experience gives me more chance of having a great day.

By the by I assume you forgot to include 'selfish' wiley old dogs who quietly check out and use conditions info in log books whilst not contributing to them? They do not sound very community spirited, perhaps they don't actually exist!