UKC

I have really bad circulation, and it seems every time i go out I get horrible hot aches within about 20 mins of being on the hill.
After dancing around like a mad man for a few minutes, they go away, an i generally only get them once or twice more throughout the course of the day.

Am i being a woos, or is there something to do which might prevent them all together and really improve my days on the hill!

I wear mountain hardwear powerstretch gloves as liners, with mountain equipment randonee gloves over the top.

Cheers!

In reply to euanryan:
you are not being a lightweight I've seen grown men on the verge of crying with hot aches!

In reply to euanryan:
The screaming add dabbs AARRHH!!
I used to suffer but when i sat and thought about the problem and its causes, I adjusted myself to cope and found it works rather well. The thing that caused my hot aches was my hands getting too cold all at once and then once gloves were back on and they warmed, the aches kicked in as the blood vessels started to open and enlarge again. The trick I found is not to let my hands get so cold as to make the blood vessels shink. It was always just after gearing up I got them so thats where I looked. I now put on harness and helmet and have a few mins back in gloves, then cramps on and again, a few mins back in gloves finally tie on and gear up and again, gloves to re-warm. Takes 5 mins longer than usual but its worked fine ever since. At about the same time I went leashless and that has helps greatly too.
another trick i learned in Scotland is when removing gloves to put belay jacket on, have a fag, take photos etc etc - put the gloves under your armpits inside your coat. My gloves were freezing up nearly instantly when removed due to the moisture from the sweat inside the gloves. Keeping them under your arm pits keeps them above the freezing temp.

In reply to euanryan: I used to get them loads. I still do a bit, but far less, and I put this down to a few things:
1. I always climb in thin gloves, but am very disciplined in putting thick gloves/mitts on to belay (and belay jacket too, even if I think I am hot).
2. Meanwhile the thin ones go in the over (armpits).
3. I climb leashless and shake out as much as I can.
4. Stay well hydrated (I still fail on this one).

In reply to euanryan: wearing gloves on walk in, racking up with gloves on. Doing the belay glove swap as others have mentioned. Keeping your core body temp where it should be. Being well fueled and watered, and remember, you are touching metal on tools, so perhaps a bit of grip tape on shafts. A good tip when shaking out is to raise your hands when shaking out, then lowering them. Easier path for quick blood replacement. Try it it does work!

In reply to euanryan:
A few years ago I read about people using neoprene cycling gloves which were supposed to keep your pinkies toasty, so I bought a pair. What I found was they cut the circulation off so the cold hands syndrome was 10x worse; hence my tip is to check your gloves and other layers aren't restricting your circulation (I noticed my watch was doing this so now take it off when wearing gloves). Also it's worth learning to do stuff like gearing up wearing mitts so they come off less often.

In reply to euanryan:

I have sh*t hands as well, and I think you have to take a proactive approach to keeping them warm. Your hands get cold when the blood vessels constrict the bloodflow, but think of them like any other bit of tubing, you can force more blood into them. I do this by swinging my arms down in a flicking motion as soon as I feel them cool down, and you can really feel the pressure build up as the blood is forced back into them. I do this five or six times, then pump my fists really quickly 10 or so times to mechanically move the blood around. Repeat this for as long as it takes, but I find my hands are warm after three to five rounds of this.

Also remember that all gloves can do is stop heat from leaving, they can't generate heat themselves. Putting gloves on over cold hands will help to an extent but you need to work to get the blood flowing again.

In reply to Taurig: I also find having wrist warmers (think Fame but on your arms) helps as I tend to use thin gloves except at belays. I think someone (?marmot) makes some but they are easy enough to fettle with some old walking socks

In reply to euanryan: thanks for the tips everyone, I'll certainly try a few of them when Im next out and about definitely trying the swinging arms thing!

In reply to euanryan:
Try these http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Technical-Clothing/Hands/Liner-Gloves...

I've been in tears on teh slopes with aches and not even been able to do my harness up with cold hands, but trying these this season with some new gloves, 5 winters climbing...5 different glove combos

In reply to euanryan:
I suffer from hot aches, but haven't since buying these - http://www.tiso.com/shop/mountain-equipment/couloir-glove-mens-aw10/?utm_so...

In reply to euanryan: Might seem silly to mention as you're probably doing this already for winter climbing but wear a good pair of leggings, under your regular pants, under your shell pants. Your legs might not be cold without them but if you wear them any excess heat generated will get sent to your extremities, i.e. hands. Works for me for rock climbing anyway and I sport climbed in -10C last year.

In reply to richardcreagh: Yeah I already wear leggings as a base layer

I'll try the non-costly tips first before i shell out for ne gloves, I only just bought the randonees last month!

In reply to euanryan:

Definately useful what lardbrain said there. Lots of blood vessels close to the skin at wrists. Wrist warmers are a great idea-home made probably just as good. Also, probably a daft question but do you were a scarf or neck warmer? For the same reason we lose a lot of heat around the neck.

I get hotaches now and then but not so often now. I think this is because I look after myself a bit better at belays. Wee snacks, mitts and a belay jacket occasionally BEFORE I get too cold. Also, a good technique when its really cold is leading in blocks of 3 or so rather than alternating leads. Obviously you dont have the same length of time shivering at the belay this way-cordellete's are useful.

cheers

Jon

In reply to euanryan:

Get some mitts!

In reply to euanryan:
Have you tried weeing on your hands? Always warmed me up when I let go in my wetsuit when caving......

In reply to euanryan:

Are you sure you're not wearing your gloves too tight? I pretty sure randonee gloves are designed to be worn next to the skin and are sized pretty tight as the pile packs out. They might be warmer without the liners?

In reply to galpinos:

Got there before me! If I wore liners under my randonees my hands would come out two sizes smaller.....if they hadn't melted.

In reply to galpinos: They are pretty tight with the liner, I might try them without the liner next time and see how i get on

In reply to euanryan: Within 20 minutes does sound either weird or worrying. Presumably you are still just starting the walk-in? Don't wear any gloves & bury your hands deep in pockets. At 18yo you certainly don't need to be carrying poles or anything else in hands.
Mitts, especially dachsteins, are where it's at for anything you need to do before kitting up. Before reaching the route do any fiddly stuff like harness, helmet & crampons then walk again to the foot of the route. Do them in more than 1 stage if its getting too cold.
Learn to do as much as possible with mitts/gloves on.
Opting to lead the 1st pitch is always a good one as the 2nd has to chill down from the walk-in while you fanny around (which you should always be mindful of, of course- partners in pain ain't good). Choose a route with a quick 1st pitch & obvious belay to speed this all up; this is easier than it sounds if you think ahead.

Loads more tips are possible but the theme is all about preparation & practice so that the climb's the hard bit not the faffing.

In reply to euanryan: I've suffered from cold hands for years and really do know how you guys feel on a belay, even more so after gearing up on a cold morning at the botton of a route.
Something I tried years ago but hasn't been mentioned yet is taking asprin to make your blood thinner and so flow though your hands more easily. I had this idea of taking asprin and took one asprin every morning without fail for weeks before the season started. First climb of the season was on Lochnagar. I looked forward to climbing with feeling in my hands on a winter route for the first time ever.
Unfortunatly my hands were frozen for five hours that day, but do you know what? I didn't give a shit,
Do you think Pattey took asprin?

Foxy

In reply to Mike Lates: sorry, i meant 20 mins of being in the snow line, or just completing the walk in.

In reply to euanryan: Disposable, one-use hand warmers. Little packets about 2cm x 3cm which cost about £1.50 a go. My hands don't seem to produce their own heat and these save me. Keep them in your belay gloves or, if you're wearing the same gloves for the whole route, just push them to the back of your hand while you're climbing. They last about 8 hours. Sometimes they go a bit cold but if you knead them a bit they warm up again.

In reply to FOXY55:

It is my understanding that aspirin doesn't affect the viscosity of the blood like you say, it just stops platelets forming clots. This is good if you have just survived a heart attack, but for an otherwise healthy individual I don't think it should be recommended. Especially considering aspirin increases the risk of gastrointestinal bleeding, and the fact that you have lots of spiky things on you when climbing, which may result in the need for your blood to be able to clot!

In reply to euanryan:
As suggested, wear the randonees against the skin. Equally in winter your heavier pack will be reducing the circulation in your shoulder area which will be reducing the bloodflow to your hands. This will probably be noticed about twenty minutes into the walk in. Rotate your arms about as you walk, change where your straps lie by altering your chest strap and if necessary take your pack off for a minute. I'm sure the key to this is blood flow and not wearing overly tight gloves. Hope that helps.

In reply to euanryan:

Just for those who have not seen this.

Here is a hot aches classic

youtube.com/watch?v=DDGf-LF3jh4&

(warning does contain swearing)

cheers

Gaz