/ NEWS: Rare UK Guidebooks - Your Help Needed

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UKC News - on 13 Feb 2012
Welsh guidebooks over the years including Paul Williams original Snowdonia Rock Climbs (1982), 5 kbDo you frequent second-hand bookshops and are you in possession of some rare pamphlet rock climbing guidebook which you jealously guard and show only to your closest friends? If so then read on.
In 1971 George Bridge produced a Bibliography of Rock Climbing Guidebooks in the British Isles and...

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=66664
JDal - on 13 Feb 2012
In reply to UKC News:

Is there a list of what they have already? I'm not about to do this lot: "front cover scan, dimensions, number of pages, photos diagrams etc" for half a dozen old guides on the off chance that I'm the only one to have bothered.
Phil Kelly - on 13 Feb 2012
In reply to JDal: Why not contact Alan Moss and ask him?

Do you really think you'll be the only one to bother? So many people have already helped out and given a great deal of time towards this project. It's well worth taking the time to ask before consigning it to your bin.

Phil
yorkiespud - on 13 Feb 2012
Jdal,

we have close to 1400 guidebooks documented to date (that number includes reprints, binding variations etc), and two new ones today as s result of this appeal, it's pretty much impossible to document them all. Just email me what you think could be of interest and I will let you know if we already know about it.

To some people this may appear to be a boring academic process, but just think of all the hours spent, much of it volntary, that allows you to walk into a shop and buy abright shiney new guide. This project hopes to document all those hours of labour.

Mossy
JDal - on 13 Feb 2012
In reply to yorkiespud:
Just being devils advocate really. All you need is text file with the title + date and it'd be really easy for people to check.

Also, as a mater of interest, where do you stop? That's a real question BTW, not a sarcy comment. I assume my hand typed 1965 guide to Heddon Quarry, held together with Bambi staples, gestetnered half a dozen times, doesn't count.

I'll send you details of a couple of Northumbrian ones, although the current editor will likely have sent the same.

yorkiespud - on 13 Feb 2012
Jdal,

If you guide was avaiable to the public, i.e. available to be bought, or sat on a shop counter free of charge etc, then its fair game to be included. The only things I have excluded are one offs, guides in journals, and anything downloadable from the internet (frankly those are like knitting fog, here to day gone tomorrow), they are almost impossible to keep track of.

Mossy
In reply to yorkiespud:
> and anything downloadable from the internet (frankly those are like knitting fog, here to day gone tomorrow), they are almost impossible to keep track of.

Although possibly it would a thing of value to try and collect digital copies of them in the future too - although a different project of course. I guess the UK is luck that many interim guides and the like have been published in some paper form - here in the Nordic area, there is a lot of knitted fog to content with!
JDal - on 14 Feb 2012
In reply to TobyA:

I anticipate that there'll be good quality 'definitive' guides to some crags in Northumberland that are never published in printed form. See Simon Lichfields guide to Bizzle Crag at http://www.geoquest-verlag.de/sites/default/files/Bizzle%20Guide%20FINAL_0.pdf

This guide compares favourably with any guide I can think of, except in length. It seems a shame that a project which catalogues UK guidebooks has to ignore the work of authors such as these.
yorkiespud - on 14 Feb 2012
Hi Jdal,

I have just looked at the Bizzle crag guide - its great, I actually have a growing library of this kind of guide, stored as pdfs and in printed forms, with their web addresses logged away.

They are without question the way of the future, easily put together, no distrubtion / print costs etc. Available to all.

Where I have a problem for the book is:

Finding out where they are and documenting them is a nightmare.
Over half the ones I have, are no longer avaiable on the web, its very much here to day gone tomorrow.
The book had to have boundaries, thats why guides in journals have also been excluded. If someone else wants to take on the task of documentingg downloads etc, I will happily suport them, it just wont be me thats doing it.

Mossy
Offwidth - on 14 Feb 2012
In reply to yorkiespud:

Do you have Dave Bishop's guide to Wappy Spring?
yorkiespud - on 14 Feb 2012
Offwidth

I have never heard of it, would you provide some details and a cover scan as a jpg (150 or 300 dpi) please.

Where is Wappy Spring btw?

Mossy
JDal - on 14 Feb 2012
I agree it needs a new approach and a different set of rules, and I take your point that it needs someone to take the task on.
> Hi Jdal,
...
> Where I have a problem for the book is:
>
> Finding out where they are and documenting them is a nightmare.

Why do you need to know where they are? You don't care where the physical books are, you are merely documenting their existence.


> Over half the ones I have, are no longer avaiable on the web, its very much here to day gone tomorrow.

As above, the equivalent would be "out of print" I suppose.

> The book had to have boundaries, thats why guides in journals have also been excluded.

Ah well, that's the tough bit. I have no idea where to draw boundaries for this stuff.

> If someone else wants to take on the task of documentingg downloads etc, I will happily suport them, it just wont be me thats doing it.


Ditto ;)
Phil Kelly - on 14 Feb 2012
In reply to yorkiespud:
> The book had to have boundaries, thats why guides in journals have also been excluded.

Surely some of our most important guides started out in journals. I'm thinking Stanage, Laddow, Wharncliffe - all historically significant.

Phil
Offwidth - on 14 Feb 2012
In reply to yorkiespud:

Ha ha... Ill let Dave Bishop know next time I see him (I'd need permission) or you could contact him direct.
Offwidth - on 14 Feb 2012
In reply to Phil Kelly:

Some of those would be great to trace. Wharncliffe for example had over a hundred named routes in 1900 from Puttrell and co...but only about a handful remain from that time (with most easy lines renamed and reclaimed later). A copy of the original crag description would be wonderful...might be buried somewhere in an alpine club journal or similar. I've got a summary document that talks about a few highlights (linked where I could on Offwidth eg for 66 The Great Chimney, Puttrell called this Big Gully)

http://offwidth.uptosummit.com/wharncliffe.html
http://offwidth.uptosummit.com/wharncliffe_woods.html
sneaks - on 14 Feb 2012
In reply to UKC News:

im glad to finally see a ukc news piece on this after my thread ;)
yorkiespud - on 14 Feb 2012
Phil,

The first Wharncliffe guide I know of was published in the Mountaineering Journal in 1933 (I don't think it was in 'some Gritstone Climbs', but could be wrong.. This was later published as a pamphlet guide, which is in the Peak section of the bibliography.

If you would like to see a copy of the MJ article, send your email address to climbingguidebook@yahoo.co.uk.

Oh there was a corresponding Laddow guide, again in the MJ 1933 and a pamphlet, you can have a copy of that as well if you wish.

Mossy
Simon Caldwell - on 14 Feb 2012
In reply to yorkiespud:

There was a Wharncliffe guide by Henry Bishop in the CC Journal of 1910. I think this is what Offwidth was referring to, as it is a selective guide. I've no idea if a full list of routes was ever published, or if it was just known to locals.
yorkiespud - on 14 Feb 2012
In reply to Toreador: Most of the CC journals are avaiable on-line as pdf's assuming the article authors (or family) have waived copyright.

It should be eay enough to look up the Bishop article.
Simon Caldwell - on 14 Feb 2012
In reply to yorkiespud:
No, it's not on the CC site - "awaiting copyright".
I've got a copy though :-)
yorkiespud - on 14 Feb 2012
In reply to Toreador: Fair enough, the CC are hot on copyright, and I don't blame them.
Offwidth - on 15 Feb 2012
In reply to Toreador: Yep
DerwentDiluted - on 15 Feb 2012
In reply to UKC News:

Probably well known about but I have lurking on the shelves:

Wayfarers Journal 1930 Guide to Helsby rocks,
Peak Sports Climbs, Mark Pretty & John Hart 1990
Rock Climbs in Wye Valley & Cotswolds GMC 3rd ed 1965
Limestone climbs in south west england, UBMC 1955
A Climbers guide to Pontesford rocks W. Unsworth 1962.

Not seen duplicates of these in much trawling of second hand shops.
Bob
yorkiespud - on 19 Feb 2012
Bob,

Thanks but yep we have allthose logged.

Just in case anyone thinks this is a fruitless exercise, in the last 7 days, we have located 6 of the missing guidebooks list, and have found out about 14 - 15 that we didn't, we have also had 4 very much improved scans of exiting guides. To all who have replied or commented or helped in any way, many thanks

Mossy
Coel Hellier - on 19 Feb 2012
In reply to yorkiespud:

The only obscure stuff I have is (let me know if you're interested):

"Wyndcliffe", Tony Penning, 1983
"Symonds Yat New Climbs", Simon Oaker, 1986.
yorkiespud - on 19 Feb 2012
In reply to Coel Hellier: Hi Coel, thnaks we have both of those already.

Mossy
JDal - on 19 Feb 2012
In reply to yorkiespud:
How about Foinaven Supplement to CMC Interim Guide to Easter Ross

Corriemuizie Mountaineering Club Rock & Ice Gude to Wester Ross

Both 1966

Or Steve Belk's 6d guide to Crag Point, 1969?
yorkiespud - on 19 Feb 2012
In reply to JDal: The two Corriemuizie guides we already have thanks, but Crag Point is new. I have sent you a small form would you complete it and do me a scan please. Wher is Crag Point btw.

Mossy
JDal - on 19 Feb 2012
In reply to yorkiespud: Crag Point is a dodgy seacliff a couple of miles N of the Tyne.
Fredt on 22 Feb 2012
In reply to UKC News:

I have:

'Tryfan' J.M Edwards and C.W.F.Noyce - Climbers Club 1949
'Rock Climbs on the Mountain Limestone of Derbyshire' - G.West - Manchester Climbing Club 1961
'Stoney Middleton Dale' - G Birtles - 1967(typewritten and stapled)
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