UKC

Following on from this thread http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=493957, I thought it would be of general interest (not for any formal academic study) to run a quick survey. It's here: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FFLL7B5

The questions are:

1. How often do you wear a helmet to lead or belay while sport climbing? [Choose one]
Always
Sometimes
Never

2. If you wear a helmet for leading or belaying while sport climbing, why do you do so? [Choose as many as you want. If 'sometimes', also choose options in 3]
Risk of rock fall
Risk of inverted fall
Have experienced/witnessed an incident in which a helmet did protect/would have protected
Have been told about an incident in which a helmet did protect/would have protected
Risk of ground fall
Not wearing a helmet is a pointless risk
For multi-pitch climbing
Modern helmets are light and comfortable
Standard procedure with youth groups
The people around me generally wear helmets
Other (please specify)

3. If you do not wear a helmet for leading or belaying while sport climbing, why not? [Choose as many as you want. If 'sometimes', also choose options in 2]
Low risk (e.g. of rock fall, inverted fall, ground fall; single pitch)
Not witnessed any incidents in which a helmet did protect/would have protected
Not been told about any incidents in which a helmet did protect/would have protected
Helmets don't protect you from big rocks
People around me don't generally wear helmets
Helmets are uncool
Helmets are uncomfortable
Climbing without a helmet is more enjoyable
Climbing with a helmet impedes my performance
I would take increased risks (e.g. be less vigilant about rock fall) that would cancel out the value of a helmet
Other (please specify)

In reply to ericinbristol:
1. How often do you wear a helmet to lead or belay while sport climbing? [Choose one]

'Always' and 'never' are pretty extreme answers. I don't know anyone who always wears a helmet, and I don't know many people who never wear one. So 'sometimes' it has to be, which isn't very useful if it applies to 98.74% of the population.

In reply to Richard Alderton:

As the survey then lets people specify the circumstances in which they do/do not wear a helmet, a more fine-grained approach understanding is possible. And I know lots of people who never wear a helmet when sport climbing.

In reply to Richard Alderton:

And the survey results are already running at 40% 'always' (4 out of 10), so you are way out thus far.

In reply to ericinbristol:

Er. Ok.

I wouldn't be rushing to report those results to the scientific community based on a sample size of 10, but go ahead.

In reply to Richard Alderton:

Gratuitously snide. I have no intention of going ahead on that sample size: hence my comment 'thus far'. For your initial assertion to be right, there would now need to be not far off 400 'Sometimes' responses and zero always/never. I think that is highly improbable but of course we shall see.

In reply to Richard Alderton:

haha. Loreal don't mind

In reply to ericinbristol:

"1. How often do you wear a helmet to lead or belay while sport climbing?"

Always be wary of ORs in surveys questions as it sometimes (in your case) hides something which should possibly be broken down.

I would think

* Always while Leading
* Always while Belaying
* Never ...

would be more appropriate.

A clear gap in the survey pointed out by a respondent is risk of dangerous falls other than inverted or ground falls. In responses please subsume these other dangerous falls within inverted or ground falls or use the Other category and comment.

In reply to Milesy:

Yup, I see the value of that. Trying to keep it reasonably simple while allowing some space for that to emerge in comments and circumstances eg inverted falls only apply to leading, but certainly some is ambiguous.

In reply to ericinbristol:

I'm going to suggest a survey about helmet use may be self selecting towards people who wear them, or feel strongly about it (either way).

In reply to ClimberEd:

I agree, and pointed out in the earlier thread that the pro helmet group was the most vocal. This is also coming out in the survey: the proportion indicating 'always' re wearing a helmet is much higher than you'll see on the crags. Self-selection is a major biasing issue in surveys.

In reply to ericinbristol:
>hence my comment 'thus far'

But there is no 'thus far'. A sample of 10 isn't big enough to mean anything.

I don't believe there are 4 sport climbers in the world who 'always' wear a helmet - every single time, every crag, every route, every time they belay someone...

In reply to Richard Alderton:

I should explain that I don't argue on the internet. Truly it is among the world's most pointless activities. So I won't be engaging with your posts. I'm happy to respond to thoughtful critical comments (e.g. posts by Milesy others).

In reply to ericinbristol:

Do you wear a helmet whille driving to the venue, would have thought way more chance of a head injury in a car accident.

In reply to Conquistador of the usless:

No, never (unlike Walter Matthau in whatever old movie that was), and mostly don't wear one sport climbing.

In reply to ericinbristol:

Fair enough.

You have engaged so far, though.

All I was trying to do was point out a flaw in what could otherwise be an interesting survey. I thought that would be helpful. I genuinely don't think your first question will yield any useful data whatsoever.

Then you went all defensive, and quoted results from a meaninglessly small sample size.

What I said before wasn't being facetious. 'Always' and 'never' are such strong words - they are absolutes. Anyone who has ever taken off their helmet to eat a cheese and chorizo sandwich at Sella and then been dragged away to belay their mate can no longer answer 'always'.

In reply to Richard Alderton:


I'm happy to discuss not argue. On this substantive point, 14 people have ticked the always or never box. The possibilities are that they actually absolutely have/have not; think they absolutely have/have not; or interpret the question to mean closer to always or never than sometimes. My sense of it is the third, though I cannot know that for sure. Language is subject to interpretation and is more flexible than you suggest.

In reply to Richard Alderton:

I bet there are. I know at least a couple of people who will always wear a helmet when at a crag.

35 responses up to now.

In reply to ericinbristol:

I'm in the always camp on this one, I'm quite old and have many experiences of the consequences of not wearing one (not me, others that is).

I did think though that there might be a trend for people that do wear a helmet to more readily answer the survey, as against those that don't to not answer the survey. And that might slew the results, if you see what I mean.

In reply to escalator:

Yes, I'm sure it's right that the more pro-helmet you are the more likely you are, other things being equal, to fill in the survey. That is coming through in the results: of the 38 respondents so far, 14 have ticked always for helmet wearing, 17 sometimes and 7 never.

In reply to ericinbristol:

It's strange, i've never climb trad without a helmet, and i've never climbed sport with. The objective risks arn't massively different.

Climbing last weekend, did see a guy invert and crack the back of his head. Completely wrecked his helmet, hard to imagine he'd not still be in hospital/morgue if he hadn't been wearing it. Made me think a bit more about why I do/dont wear helmets.

In reply to ericinbristol:I say as long as it's our FREE choice as that is what climbing is all about i,e FREEDOM , NO RULES! pretty simple really Wear one or dont - i cant really see the point in your survey unless you work for Health & Saftey and are trying to collect some sort of evidence ??

In reply to ste53:

I completely agree that it should be our free choice, without rules. It is one of the great things about climbing that we choose our own risks.

The point of the survey is knowledge for its own sake: understanding our free and indeed diverse choices I find valuable in itself. Our choices and the reasons for them vary and I am curious.

In case it needs to be said, I am not advocating wearing a helmet for sport climbing.

In reply to Kemics:

Interesting (and hi btw, hope all's well). I think that what this brings out is that self-reported motivations are probably at pretty wide variance from what I expect is one of the best predictors of helmet wearing i.e. conforming to the group norm - fitting in with what those around us generally do (so, tending towards helmet for trad, no helmet for sport). We don't like to admit we are conforming or even see ourselves as conforming, but we probably are quite a lot.

49 responses so far - many thanks.

In reply to ericinbristol:

I agree that there are too few categories for the first question, I think a wider range of options and splitting the question for lead and belaying would have been more useful.

For example I had to put "sometimes" because I've climbed a few times at quarries where I'd wear one belaying but the vast majority of the time I don't wear one for leading or belaying.

Hope that's constructive and you get what you're after from the survey.

In reply to Eagle River:

Yes, I agree that more categories would have been helpful. It would have been useful filling in the survey for myself (!) as I wear a helmet for sport belaying much more often than I wear one for sport leading.

The survey is just for interest/insight rather than for any practical purpose.

In reply to Kemics:


Inversion is normally due to schoolboy errors. Which is why I'm far more paranoid about having the rope behind my leg than wearing a helmet on a (solid) sport route.

In reply to jonny2vests:

And other factors - nature of fall, rock-face morphology, belaying etc...you can't cover them all

In reply to jonny2vests:

I've never had an inverted fall in over 20 years of climbing. Also never seen one. Not saying they don't happen of course.

(Guess I can expect to end up inverted next time I go climbing now that I have said that....)

74 responses so far - many thanks.

I will of course post a summary and analysis of the results once responses slow down.

In reply to ericinbristol:

Never had one either, seen plenty.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Yeah, but its NORMALLY, due to having the rope behind your leg.

83 responses now, many thanks - one last bump for tail enders.

In reply to ericinbristol:

Really? I have them quite often. Falling while you have a heel hook is pretty much guaranteed to cause one.

In reply to ericinbristol:
I never wear a helmet but the reason is simply because I don't have one. As soon as I can afford one I'll be wearing it for every outdoor climb/belay I'm involved with.
If its a case of look goofy in headgear or brain damage then I know what I'd choose