UKC

Hello all.

Last week I asked for advice on my anchor building in the thread "please rate my anchor". Well i've been out playing again this week putting everyone's tips to good use. I even got a couple onsight leads in the bag.

Or did I?

It takes us ages to construct an anchor, we figure two heads are better than one, and we both like to check the anchor before we trust each other with it. So before climbing we constructed an anchor at the top with the crab over the edge. Then we lead the climb from the bottom and when we got to the top we threaded the rope through like you would at the top of a sports climb. Then brought the second up from the top.

Because the lead climber had a pre prepared anchor waiting for him at the top, does this still count as an onsight?

Either way they're in my logbook now

In reply to ledifer: If you brought the second up from the top then presumably the crab for the anchor should not be over the edge but a bit back from the edge?...
Or maybe I am not understanding right.
Either way I'd be quite happy to call this an on sight. I have on occasion reached the top and had to go get more gear to build a belay because I was out and I'd still count them as on sights.

As Henwardian said-- other things being equal your belay at the top should be well back from the edge. Not near it, still less over it. (Because, for one thing, if the belayer gets any pull from the second, he's liable to go over the edge and end up dangling as far below it as there is slack between him and the anchor.)

If your "over the edge" crab was protecting a dodgy mantle 20ft above you last gear, then you've cheated big time. If however it was just saving a bit of faffing about on your part, who cares? You did the climb, just be honest with yourself - did it make it easier in the head-game or not?

In reply to ledifer:

Haven't heard this one before!

A one pitch crag and you err pre-placed a belay?

It's an onsight mate; the belay had nothing to do with your lead really....more an issue for your second!

In reply to ledifer: Your still learning mate, don't worry too much about style at the moment and just do what you think is right. I think making the belay with your partner beforehand was a really good idea, I'm sure I'm not the only one who has got to the top of a climb to find there partner's belay would not have been up to the job. Gaining confidence in each others abilities if you are going to go out a lot together is important too.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Unless it was Right Unconquerable.

E

In reply to henwardian:



Well the anchor was at right at the top but there wasn't a lot of room up there (was on leigh tor, Dartmoor) so I led it, topped out, then climbed back down a little bit. There was a ledge just under so stood on that, fixed myself to the crab which was now at head height and belayed from there.

I thought you were meant to have the crab from your anchor over the edge to reduce rope abrasion and avoid having the crab on an edge (where it could snap)?

In reply to ledifer:


That really only applies to "bottom roping" although both of the risks that you mention are valid concerns.

Al

In reply to ledifer:

I'd count this if I were you. I've only done it once myself, and that was becasue the top was a large pile of crumbling cheese on top of which were precariously perched some large and heavy boulders. didn't want to disturb anything!

In reply to John_Hat: I've quite often left a belay set up on a grit crag to reuse where I am climbing two or three routes close to each other, and no-one would think twice about this. Interesting that someone would actually ask the question though. Probably worries about pulling on gear too ...

In reply to ledifer:

Did you top out?

It would be a shame to miss out on the experience of topping out, which I think is one of the most special things about trad climbing, especially if it's a bit of a fight with fall potential.

If you're still uncertain about anchor quality, why not construct the anchor together at the top but with the attachemnt point back from the edge. You could then top out, tie in with a clove hitch and belay from the top. This would be a step closer to the standard method of leading, topping out and then setting up anchor and belaying (if that's what you're working towards).

have done this before on a crag with a very overgrown and sloped top out. still claimed the onsight.

In reply to ledifer:

What's an onsight?