/ Anglezarke bolts again!

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monkeymark - on 24 Mar 2012
Following on from the previous post in December by Mark Collins (http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=487728&v=1#x6691771) I was down at Anglezarke today and noticed that someone had placed some new metal work in the rock directly above where the other bolts were placed.

I dont know what to call them exactly as they don't particularly look like your traditional bolts. They are more like giant screw threads sticking out of the rock. They are quite new as there is still all the residue from the drilling running down the rock face.

Three of the additions are right at the top of Nightmare at the Walts wall area.

Photo's can be found here. http://www.flickr.com/photos/77879850@N08/sets/72157629658153029/

Mark
wilkie14c - on 24 Mar 2012
In reply to monkeymark:
there're pretty substanial bits of metalwork, I wouldn't have thought they were anything from a climbing point of view, could be worth asking the ownwers what is going on. united utilites I think own zark?
Good effort mark
andyathome - on 24 Mar 2012
In reply to monkeymark:
Looks like a rock stabilisation job from your photos. Could be painful to land on them.
muppetfilter - on 24 Mar 2012
In reply to andyathome:
> Looks like a rock stabilisation job from your photos. Could be painful to land on them.

No it doesn't, I have done quite a bit of geothechnical work and this looks like 10/12mm thread bad bar commonly used in suspended ceilings and to hang cable trays.

monkeymark - on 24 Mar 2012
In reply to muppetfilter: Whatever it is it's definitely not pretty.
Dax H - on 24 Mar 2012
In reply to muppetfilter: No way are they m10/12. Its hard to say from the photos but I would say either m16 or m20.
jon on 24 Mar 2012
In reply to muppetfilter:
> (In reply to andyathome)
> No it doesn't, I have done quite a bit of geothechnical work and this looks like 10/12mm thread bad bar commonly used in suspended ceilings

Hardly seems worth it - a suspended ceiling over Anglesarke?
Pekkie - on 24 Mar 2012
In reply to monkeymark:

This is a popular route and could cause someone a serious injury. Do you reckon you could jemmy them out or would you have to hacksaw them off?
Andrew Smith - on 24 Mar 2012
In reply to jon: An indoor, outdoor climbing wall in the making?
monkeymark - on 24 Mar 2012
In reply to Pekkie: They looked like they were firmly glued in place, you could probably take them off with a hacksaw if you had the time to spend on it.
Pekkie - on 24 Mar 2012
In reply to monkeymark:
> (In reply to Pekkie) They looked like they were firmly glued in place, you could probably take them off with a hacksaw if you had the time to spend on it.

Or wack them over with a lump hammer to make them safe for climbers and piss off the perpetrators?

Kemics - on 25 Mar 2012
In reply to monkeymark:

They're obviously there for a reason, no one goes to trouble of equipping something like that for shits and giggles. Ask around and find out what they're before taking any action :)
muppetfilter - on 25 Mar 2012
In reply to Kemics: The oddest thing is that the dont appear to be either expansion bolts or decent glue in anchors either. This has been done by someone with very little idea of how to place a decent climbing bolt, the large quantity of thread exposed leads the placement vulnerable to leverage should someone stand on it.
This badly placed they should come out quite easily with a crowbar with a nut screwed down towards the base
CurlyStevo - on 25 Mar 2012
Don't you think it would be best to contact the land owner first?
Pekkie - on 25 Mar 2012
In reply to Kemics:
> >
> They're obviously there for a reason, no one goes to trouble of equipping something like that for shits and giggles. Ask around and find out what they're before taking any action :)

No, it's out of order to place bolts on a trad climb against the wishes of local climbers. And it's doubly out of order when the objects placed are dangerous. They're coming out.

JDal - on 25 Mar 2012
In reply to Pekkie:
> (In reply to Kemics)
> [...]
>
> No, it's out of order to place bolts on a trad climb against the wishes of local climbers. ...

Not if you own the quarry! I'd certainly check, looks like United Utilities.
muppetfilter - on 25 Mar 2012
In reply to JDal: I hardly thing a quarry owner would want dangerous bolts on their land leading to all kinds of avenues for litigation against them...
skygod78 - on 25 Mar 2012
In reply to monkeymark:
It looks like the start of a klettersteig.
JDal - on 25 Mar 2012
In reply to muppetfilter: I agree, but if they did put them there (can't see why mind) they'd have done so for a purpose and if they're dangerous to climbers, but they want them there, then there's a rather obvious solution!

Having said all that I can't imagine it's got owt do do with Allied Utilities, they look like a pretty amateur job.

Just a thought, do they overlook any wildlife? They could be anchors for a hide. There are bolts at the top of a Northumberland crag for that purpose.
Enty - on 25 Mar 2012
In reply to muppetfilter:
> (In reply to Kemics) The oddest thing is that the dont appear to be either expansion bolts or decent glue in anchors either. This has been done by someone with very little idea of how to place a decent climbing bolt, the large quantity of thread exposed leads the placement vulnerable to leverage should someone stand on it.
> This badly placed they should come out quite easily with a crowbar with a nut screwed down towards the base


From a climbing point of view yes.
But gluing threaded bar into holes is pretty normal for other stuff. I've done it myself - you use glass capsules full of resin then whack the bar down the hole.

http://www.us.hilti.com/holus/page/module/product/prca_rangedetail.jsf?lang=en&nodeId=-60965

E
Enty - on 25 Mar 2012
In reply to Enty:

Looks like hilti have improved on the old glass capsule methood:http://www.us.hilti.com/holus/page/module/product/prca_rangedetail.jsf?lang=en&nodeId=-61019

The rods could be for anything - take your climbing blinkers off.

E
muppetfilter - on 25 Mar 2012
In reply to Enty: Having worked as a steeplejack and also fitted a variety of different fall arrest bolts and rooftop lifeline systems as well as working on a number of rock stabilisation jobs both on railways and heritage sites.... I don't have "Climbing Blinkers" I can spot a dodgy bolt when I see one.
Enty - on 25 Mar 2012
In reply to muppetfilter:


Sorry bro - the climbing blinkers bit wasn't aimed at you - the whole thread really.

But how do you know they are dodgy from a photo without knowing what they are for?

Threaded bar glued into holes is a common thing but they certainly don't look like anything for climbing.

If they are for climbing you're right - they look wrong.

E
muppetfilter - on 25 Mar 2012
In reply to Enty: If we do assume they are for another purpose then it seems odd that every single stud has a different length exposed, either indicating different hole depths or bar lengths.. Both are quite odd, also the hole pattern and location doesn't seem to be logical for suspending / fixing something.
Mark Reeves - on 25 Mar 2012
In reply to monkeymark: My guess is maybe slackliners, rigging a high line.

If it is its a tough one, becuase why should we as climbers force our ethics onto other sports?

Controversal I know, but I am trying to find a parallel from other sports forcing ethics onto others.
muppetfilter - on 26 Mar 2012
In reply to Mark Reeves: Would that be the ethic of not drilling holes in rock and attempting to leave the crag environment pretty much as we find it... A bit like most mountain bikers not building 5ft dirt jumps on heavily used bridleways.
aki048 - on 26 Mar 2012
I saw these threaded bars yesterday - their position is prety random and I would put money on them NOT been climber installed. As for what they are for......don't have a scooby! And for the record - I had a nightmare on Nightmare!
Mark Collins - on 26 Mar 2012
In reply to monkeymark: Thanks for posting, I haven't been down there lately. That'll teach me!

I also think it's something to do with high lining as someone has already stated. The fact that there are 3 threads suggests they are trying to create a system with some redundancy, and the style is tending towards some amateur pursuit rather than a professional purpose. I think there were 3 to 4 bolts put in when I posted last time, just lower down in the same area. This suggests to me the same people could be responsible. Now the threads are near the top of the crag, it is more achieveable to link a highline to the next arete and improves accessability to it. They may have also deliberately not placed the threads on Nightmare, but just around the corner, so not to p*ss climbers off too much.

My two penneth, for what it's worth. I'll try to get down there more often.
wilkie14c - on 26 Mar 2012
In reply to Mark Collins:
Could well be a highline, its getting popular as there is often one up in the slate quarries <Wales>
pec on 26 Mar 2012
In reply to Mark Reeves:

> If it is its a tough one, becuase why should we as climbers force our ethics onto other sports?
>
Surely this would be a case of another sport imposing its ethics on climbing? The quarry has been used for climbing for decades before these bolts appeared.
Pekkie - on 27 Mar 2012
In reply to Mark Collins:
>
> 'I also think it's something to do with high lining as someone has already stated.'

If it is for high lining then there needs to be somme communication with climbers. Nightmare is a popular 'Western Grit' VS; you climb onto the ledge above which the bolts/threads are, then move onto the arete to finish - so you could use them as a belay. Also, if you fell off the final moves there is a chance that you could be impaled on them! It would be relatively easy to find a location which wouldn't affect climbs and also to suggest a safer kind of anchor.

Theho - on 27 Mar 2012
In reply to monkeymark:
Possibly some wierd homemade anchors for a activity centre abseil rig? With the last photo of a bolt used for getting the clients to the ledge by via ferata maybe? Don't know the crag very well so if the wall is 5 metres high...i take this idea back....
Phil Kelly - on 27 Mar 2012
In reply to Pekkie:
> (In reply to Mark Collins)
> [...]
>
> If it is for high lining then there needs to be somme communication with climbers.

If it's for high lining then where is the other end? Golden Tower?
ashburleigh - on 28 Mar 2012
This doesn't look like highliners the anchors position, the bolts used, the location it really doesn't add up. Most highliner's have a climbing back ground or have be taught by climber and the ethics of climbing are drilled in from an early stage. As for what they are....I don't know! If anyone is worried I would contact the owners or even the BMC!
BPT@work on 29 Mar 2012
In reply to ashburleigh:

> and the ethics of climbing are drilled in from an early stage.

Interesting choice of words :-)



high guy on 29 Mar 2012 - customer6965.105.wv.cust.t-mobile.co.uk
thanks Ash that is very true. Ther is no way us slackliners would of put them in you would strugul to rig a line from them and also we always trye to cover are boults up so there not in eye site

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