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Hi
While climbing at the "Cuttings main cliff" I noticed the top lower off bolts were "well" worn on the route.
"The great American hamburger disaster" F5
I will let the BMC/ whoever the guidebook says know about this and would advise not climbing this route (especially with top roping groups) until they have been checked further.
Rob
While climbing at the "Cuttings main cliff" I noticed the top lower off bolts were "well" worn on the route.
"The great American hamburger disaster" F5
I will let the BMC/ whoever the guidebook says know about this and would advise not climbing this route (especially with top roping groups) until they have been checked further.
Rob
In reply to rg12g09:
Hopefully some pigs tails lower-offs can be added to these, if they're not too well worn already. The Dorset Bolt Fund has a small stock of these. Sadly, if they are too worn, then the staples will have to be replaced.
Still - if people top-roped on their own quickdraws, none of this would be necessary.
Hopefully some pigs tails lower-offs can be added to these, if they're not too well worn already. The Dorset Bolt Fund has a small stock of these. Sadly, if they are too worn, then the staples will have to be replaced.
Still - if people top-roped on their own quickdraws, none of this would be necessary.
In reply to rg12g09: They have been 'well worn' for several years now.
Unfortunately the quick solution of adding pigstails is rather expensive. In fact it could be about 5+ times the cost of new staples and pretty much the same as the cost of a new bombproof 12mm belay bolt.
At some point it might rise up the priority list of the local climbers involved with the Dorset bolt fund but given that fact that one for one replacement of the staples will probably result in exactly the same erosion within another few years I don't see there being much enthusiasm for resolving this when there are dozens of infinitely better routes needing attention that don't need special consideration.
That said, if someone came up with the money to buy some proper belay bolts (such as Jim Titt's 12mm Monster Belay Bolts http://www.bolt-products.com/BelayBolts.htm ) and the resin then I'm sure there would be some people around willing to install them.
Unfortunately the quick solution of adding pigstails is rather expensive. In fact it could be about 5+ times the cost of new staples and pretty much the same as the cost of a new bombproof 12mm belay bolt.
At some point it might rise up the priority list of the local climbers involved with the Dorset bolt fund but given that fact that one for one replacement of the staples will probably result in exactly the same erosion within another few years I don't see there being much enthusiasm for resolving this when there are dozens of infinitely better routes needing attention that don't need special consideration.
That said, if someone came up with the money to buy some proper belay bolts (such as Jim Titt's 12mm Monster Belay Bolts http://www.bolt-products.com/BelayBolts.htm ) and the resin then I'm sure there would be some people around willing to install them.
In reply to rg12g09:
surely the solution is rings attached to two bolts with malions. The rotate around so never wears a groove.
surely the solution is rings attached to two bolts with malions. The rotate around so never wears a groove.
In reply to steve taylor:
Unfortunately this is very much the problem, particularly with groups under instruction. Twice last week there were sets of about half a dozen ropes left threaded through lower-offs at The Cuttings waiting for the next "class". Instructors should know better and also be setting a better example.
> (In reply to rg12g09)
>
>>
>
> Still - if people top-roped on their own quickdraws, none of this would be necessary.
> Still - if people top-roped on their own quickdraws, none of this would be necessary.
Unfortunately this is very much the problem, particularly with groups under instruction. Twice last week there were sets of about half a dozen ropes left threaded through lower-offs at The Cuttings waiting for the next "class". Instructors should know better and also be setting a better example.
In reply to johnl:
The French system of freely rotating rings last MUCH longer, I can't understand by why don't use them more in the UK on routes that get a lot of hammer.
Chris
The French system of freely rotating rings last MUCH longer, I can't understand by why don't use them more in the UK on routes that get a lot of hammer.
Chris
In reply to Kemics: Stainless steel maillons and rated welded SS rings are not cheap. In fact, having checked out prices in the past, they are probably three times the price of putting on pigstails.
As I've said already, even putting on pigstails is possibly a false economy as it is not far off the cost of buying a proper bombproof 12mm belay bolt.
As I've said already, even putting on pigstails is possibly a false economy as it is not far off the cost of buying a proper bombproof 12mm belay bolt.
In reply to johnl:
Well, if I'd been there, there would rapidly have been half a dozen ropes lying on the ground.
That sort of behavior is just not acceptable and should be challenged.
Thankfully, something like 95% of 'instructors' with groups will have a very strong incentive to rapidly change their behavior if challenged as they will ultimately be accountable to someone else who will be distinctly un-impressed to receive a formal complaint about them - that includes all AALA registered providers, Local Authority outdoor centres, MLTA/AMI instructors, the military and cadets, Scouts, School groups, University groups and BMC clubs.
> Unfortunately this is very much the problem, particularly with groups under instruction. Twice last week there were sets of about half a dozen ropes left threaded through lower-offs at The Cuttings waiting for the next "class". Instructors should know better and also be setting a better example.
Well, if I'd been there, there would rapidly have been half a dozen ropes lying on the ground.
That sort of behavior is just not acceptable and should be challenged.
Thankfully, something like 95% of 'instructors' with groups will have a very strong incentive to rapidly change their behavior if challenged as they will ultimately be accountable to someone else who will be distinctly un-impressed to receive a formal complaint about them - that includes all AALA registered providers, Local Authority outdoor centres, MLTA/AMI instructors, the military and cadets, Scouts, School groups, University groups and BMC clubs.
In reply to steve taylor: Let me guess the cheques in the post right? I was putting in a new belay at Blacknor north on Sat and the guy on the next route gave me a right quizzing as to why I would do such a thing out of my own free will and out of my own pocket, but as Damo once told me its because I'm crazy!
In reply to nealh: Crazy crazy Dude !!
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
I remember the prices being about the same as a normal bolt. Obviously you need to buy the bolt on top. But I think it's a very decent investment.
I remember the prices being about the same as a normal bolt. Obviously you need to buy the bolt on top. But I think it's a very decent investment.
In reply to rg12g09:
I for one get feed up of tell people at the crag to stop top roping through the staples. I must agree with chris the spinning rings are good i have a couple left over from a job, and i put one in with staples on the last route i bolted up. but i'm not sure if they are made of 316 and there longeverty on portland may have a impact.
But i sure one of us kind locals will take time out of there life to put right the actions of the selfesh.
But on a new note steve we need to talk about a mass rebolting of Dancing ledge there are alot down there that need attention.
I for one get feed up of tell people at the crag to stop top roping through the staples. I must agree with chris the spinning rings are good i have a couple left over from a job, and i put one in with staples on the last route i bolted up. but i'm not sure if they are made of 316 and there longeverty on portland may have a impact.
But i sure one of us kind locals will take time out of there life to put right the actions of the selfesh.
But on a new note steve we need to talk about a mass rebolting of Dancing ledge there are alot down there that need attention.
In reply to steve taylor:
Hi Steve,
I will go and have a look at the lower-off tomorrow and if needed sort its replacement while I am bolting in the area. If you have any rings available it would be a good opportunity to install them.
John.
Hi Steve,
I will go and have a look at the lower-off tomorrow and if needed sort its replacement while I am bolting in the area. If you have any rings available it would be a good opportunity to install them.
John.
In reply to The Ex-Engineer: I don't know if it would work but how about some collection pots at the climbs or text donation system with signs at the cragg on the lines of PLEASE donate £5 when you climb to replace bolts as you would pay to climb at you local wall!!
In reply to johnl, steve and everyone else placing/replacing gear:
thanks for all the good work. much appreciated!
thanks for all the good work. much appreciated!
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Jim's marine grade rings are about 10 euros each - the same price as pig tails, and cheaper than monster hooks.
The pig tails can be placed with no further drilling, so have a clear advantage in that respect. The effort to remove staples (don't want to leave worn-out staples up there) and drill for more is significant.
The monster hooks would wear out too and eventually need replacing - if any redrilling is going to be done, then it would probably make sense to add new staples with rings, but that's not cheap. The Dorset bolt fund could fund some of those, but it would soon run out of cash!!!
The Dorset bolt fund has just paid for a batch of pig tails which John Leonard will be using wisely, plus the BMC bolt fund paid for a load of them too.
I do like the idea of pulling down top-ropes that are threaded through belays for group use though - let's start that as a campaign.
Jim's marine grade rings are about 10 euros each - the same price as pig tails, and cheaper than monster hooks.
The pig tails can be placed with no further drilling, so have a clear advantage in that respect. The effort to remove staples (don't want to leave worn-out staples up there) and drill for more is significant.
The monster hooks would wear out too and eventually need replacing - if any redrilling is going to be done, then it would probably make sense to add new staples with rings, but that's not cheap. The Dorset bolt fund could fund some of those, but it would soon run out of cash!!!
The Dorset bolt fund has just paid for a batch of pig tails which John Leonard will be using wisely, plus the BMC bolt fund paid for a load of them too.
I do like the idea of pulling down top-ropes that are threaded through belays for group use though - let's start that as a campaign.
In reply to steve taylor:
Sign me up. Any way of identifying the group leaders and shaming them into contributing to the bolt fund? Apart from noisy barracking when you see it at the crag - though some people have thick skins.
> >
> 'I do like the idea of pulling down top-ropes that are threaded through belays for group use though - let's start that as a campaign.'
> 'I do like the idea of pulling down top-ropes that are threaded through belays for group use though - let's start that as a campaign.'
Sign me up. Any way of identifying the group leaders and shaming them into contributing to the bolt fund? Apart from noisy barracking when you see it at the crag - though some people have thick skins.
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Excellent idea. I've tried polite reasoning with these idiots and got nowhere: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=406321&v=1#x5818348
> (In reply to johnl)
> [...]
>
> Well, if I'd been there, there would rapidly have been half a dozen ropes lying on the ground.
> [...]
>
> Well, if I'd been there, there would rapidly have been half a dozen ropes lying on the ground.
Excellent idea. I've tried polite reasoning with these idiots and got nowhere: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=406321&v=1#x5818348
In reply to steve taylor: I got the following prices from Jim's website as a rough guide. Pretty much the only conclusion is that, as you have said, nothing much is a cheap option, either retrofit or replacement:
Retrofit options:
2x 10mm pigstails €17.10
2x 6mm maillons + 2x 12mm rings €31.44
Replacement options:
1x 12mm Monster Hook €12.50
2x 12mm Monster belay bolts €17.00
2x 6mm twisted leg bolts & 12mm rings €29.34
Inline chainset 6mm bolts & 12mm ring €24.46
Vee chainset 6mm bolts & 12mm ring €38.56
Retrofit options:
2x 10mm pigstails €17.10
2x 6mm maillons + 2x 12mm rings €31.44
Replacement options:
1x 12mm Monster Hook €12.50
2x 12mm Monster belay bolts €17.00
2x 6mm twisted leg bolts & 12mm rings €29.34
Inline chainset 6mm bolts & 12mm ring €24.46
Vee chainset 6mm bolts & 12mm ring €38.56
In reply to rg12g09:
In addition to the route mentioned by the OP I recently noticed significant wear to the bolts on "Jam" and "Chips with Everything", and this problem probably extends to other amenably graded Cuttings routes.
Thanks to all those who work at maintaining and extending the great climbing destination that Portland has become.
In addition to the route mentioned by the OP I recently noticed significant wear to the bolts on "Jam" and "Chips with Everything", and this problem probably extends to other amenably graded Cuttings routes.
Thanks to all those who work at maintaining and extending the great climbing destination that Portland has become.
In reply to The Ivanator: The scary thing is I only retroed those routes in 2004 there a lot of much older bolts on the crags, we did replace some lower offs on the ramp a few years back with y hangs but not all of them Someone (trying to avoid eye contact ) is in for a lot of work and expense.
On another note we are trying to organise a clean up operation for saturday the 28th April at Cheyne Wears carpark. Alot of rubbish has been dumped below the car park and will need to be got out on ropes hence the usual voluteers cant manage it. It is a great opportunity for climbers to show themselves in a good light and score major brownie points with the powers that be especially as there are a few acccess issues bubbling away under the surface. Anyone who thinks they can give up a couple of hours would be very welcome. I will donate enough ropes so no-one needs to trash theirs.
On another note we are trying to organise a clean up operation for saturday the 28th April at Cheyne Wears carpark. Alot of rubbish has been dumped below the car park and will need to be got out on ropes hence the usual voluteers cant manage it. It is a great opportunity for climbers to show themselves in a good light and score major brownie points with the powers that be especially as there are a few acccess issues bubbling away under the surface. Anyone who thinks they can give up a couple of hours would be very welcome. I will donate enough ropes so no-one needs to trash theirs.
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Putting cost aside though - the effort of drilling out the old belay bolts and "making good" is significant, hence the currently preferred option of pigtails - they just have to be hammered into place.
Putting cost aside though - the effort of drilling out the old belay bolts and "making good" is significant, hence the currently preferred option of pigtails - they just have to be hammered into place.
In reply to nealh: Hi Neal,
I should be available for some clean-up work and will bring along the usual suspects.
I am just in the process of sending you some mail, check in 5 minutes.
Cheers, John.
I should be available for some clean-up work and will bring along the usual suspects.
I am just in the process of sending you some mail, check in 5 minutes.
Cheers, John.
In reply to nealh: Hi Neal,
I had seen the rubbish below the car park and was thinking about clearing it up before the olympics. Like you say, good brownie points for us.
I will come along on the 28th to help clear the crap.
Is there anything we can do to ease the access issues?
I had seen the rubbish below the car park and was thinking about clearing it up before the olympics. Like you say, good brownie points for us.
I will come along on the 28th to help clear the crap.
Is there anything we can do to ease the access issues?
In reply to Adam Perrett: Thanks Chaps good to have some local support, hopefully more will muck in and make the job easier.
Regarding Dungecroft Quarry I have had an email from a Rose Gilbert who
informs me her plan is to restrict all access to the quarry. I have taken
advice on this from the Countryside service and am pretty confident this
quarry is designated CROW land whihc give public right of access for recreation. To overturn this she would have to apply to Natural England
who are likely to be reluctant to grant any restriction. More so the land does not fit the strict criteria's under which it could be excluded from Crow.
Her intention is to fence off the access, however I would suggest climbers continue to climb there and if approached be polite but state you are allowed to be there under the CROW act. If the situation worstens I will get someone from the BMC down to meet with her to see if we cant resolve this amiciably, I will also put up a seperate post here to make sure climbers are aware of the situation.
Regarding Dungecroft Quarry I have had an email from a Rose Gilbert who
informs me her plan is to restrict all access to the quarry. I have taken
advice on this from the Countryside service and am pretty confident this
quarry is designated CROW land whihc give public right of access for recreation. To overturn this she would have to apply to Natural England
who are likely to be reluctant to grant any restriction. More so the land does not fit the strict criteria's under which it could be excluded from Crow.
Her intention is to fence off the access, however I would suggest climbers continue to climb there and if approached be polite but state you are allowed to be there under the CROW act. If the situation worstens I will get someone from the BMC down to meet with her to see if we cant resolve this amiciably, I will also put up a seperate post here to make sure climbers are aware of the situation.
In reply to rg12g09:
It might be time for a 'hands up' session.
How many people who get to the top of a sport route clip the 'lower-off' with a quickdraw and lower off? C'mon - hands up! (my hand is down - it just NEVER happens)
How many people lead a route expecting that more than one person might like to try it and so rig it with a screwgate or extenders. Hmmm. I have done on a very few occasions. So a sort of 'hands up'.
How many people get their partners to follow sport routes taking out the clips and expect them to rethread and retrieve quickdraws from the top of a route - with nothing clipped in below them? (my hand is down)
How many people like to sanctimoniously blame 'top-ropers' for lower-off wear when they themselves do sod all to limit the impact that they make. (ohhh that hand is twitching....)
It might be time for a 'hands up' session.
How many people who get to the top of a sport route clip the 'lower-off' with a quickdraw and lower off? C'mon - hands up! (my hand is down - it just NEVER happens)
How many people lead a route expecting that more than one person might like to try it and so rig it with a screwgate or extenders. Hmmm. I have done on a very few occasions. So a sort of 'hands up'.
How many people get their partners to follow sport routes taking out the clips and expect them to rethread and retrieve quickdraws from the top of a route - with nothing clipped in below them? (my hand is down)
How many people like to sanctimoniously blame 'top-ropers' for lower-off wear when they themselves do sod all to limit the impact that they make. (ohhh that hand is twitching....)
In reply to nealh:
Is Rose Gilbert the owner of the land with the stable above the routes at the southern end of the quarry?? If so, I had a bit of a run-in with her when bolting in 2007. I managed to keep it amicable despite a fair bit of aggression on her part! I was told that I would make her horses go lame by climbing on the wall below the field (ultrasonic shoulder routes) even though there were no horses or stables in the field at that point in time! I would personally be gutted if a serious access issue arose at Dungecroft, I’ll be there on the 28th!
One problem I have noticed at Dungecroft during the nesting season is people getting close to the cliff edge at the southernmost end of the quarry causing obvious distress to the nesting peregrine’s on ‘Drowning on Dry Land’. It wouldn’t hurt our cause to politly encourage people to stay away from their at this time. There is no need to go anywhere near the nest to climb any of the dungecroft routes.
Is Rose Gilbert the owner of the land with the stable above the routes at the southern end of the quarry?? If so, I had a bit of a run-in with her when bolting in 2007. I managed to keep it amicable despite a fair bit of aggression on her part! I was told that I would make her horses go lame by climbing on the wall below the field (ultrasonic shoulder routes) even though there were no horses or stables in the field at that point in time! I would personally be gutted if a serious access issue arose at Dungecroft, I’ll be there on the 28th!
One problem I have noticed at Dungecroft during the nesting season is people getting close to the cliff edge at the southernmost end of the quarry causing obvious distress to the nesting peregrine’s on ‘Drowning on Dry Land’. It wouldn’t hurt our cause to politly encourage people to stay away from their at this time. There is no need to go anywhere near the nest to climb any of the dungecroft routes.
In reply to andyathome:
If no one else is doing the route after me, of course not, how would you get the draw back?
You clip in to both lower of bolts then you can thread the lower off fine and lower to the ground. No problem.
It's quite simple, if you're top roping sport routes, do it on your own gear. To lower off once the route has been stripped, thread and lower on the bolts. That way there has been minimum wear on the lower off's.
> (In reply to rg12g09)
>
> It might be time for a 'hands up' session.
>
> How many people who get to the top of a sport route clip the 'lower-off' with a quickdraw and lower off? C'mon - hands up! (my hand is down - it just NEVER happens)
>
> It might be time for a 'hands up' session.
>
> How many people who get to the top of a sport route clip the 'lower-off' with a quickdraw and lower off? C'mon - hands up! (my hand is down - it just NEVER happens)
If no one else is doing the route after me, of course not, how would you get the draw back?
>
> How many people lead a route expecting that more than one person might like to try it and so rig it with a screwgate or extenders. Hmmm. I have done on a very few occasions. So a sort of 'hands up'.
>
Yeah always, just two draws does fine and the rope feeds better anyway.> How many people lead a route expecting that more than one person might like to try it and so rig it with a screwgate or extenders. Hmmm. I have done on a very few occasions. So a sort of 'hands up'.
>
> How many people get their partners to follow sport routes taking out the clips and expect them to rethread and retrieve quickdraws from the top of a route - with nothing clipped in below them? (my hand is down)
You clip in to both lower of bolts then you can thread the lower off fine and lower to the ground. No problem.
>
> How many people like to sanctimoniously blame 'top-ropers' for lower-off wear when they themselves do sod all to limit the impact that they make. (ohhh that hand is twitching....)
> How many people like to sanctimoniously blame 'top-ropers' for lower-off wear when they themselves do sod all to limit the impact that they make. (ohhh that hand is twitching....)
It's quite simple, if you're top roping sport routes, do it on your own gear. To lower off once the route has been stripped, thread and lower on the bolts. That way there has been minimum wear on the lower off's.
In reply to steve taylor:
The trouble is, if the existing bolts are already worn, do you want to put a pigtail on one? And to include the other bolt to make a safer belay you need a length of chain and a maillon (which can be easily stolen unless you glue it shut). If the bolts are worn you're probably better putting in a new two bolt, chain and pigtail set. Expensive and runs risk of leaving a mess. Though once in place the pigtails will last much longer than bolts - and can be easily renewed. Maybe the BMC could help as this is renewing/making safe existing belays. And professionally run groups causing the damage should be requested to contribute/shamed into contributing. The longer term cost of renewing pigtails could be factored into bolt fund planning and any(?!) profit from sport climbing guidebooks.
A bit like planned maintenance of buildings!
> (In reply to The Ex-Engineer)
>
> 'Putting cost aside though - the effort of drilling out the old belay bolts and "making good" is significant, hence the currently preferred option of pigtails - they just have to be hammered into place.'
>
> 'Putting cost aside though - the effort of drilling out the old belay bolts and "making good" is significant, hence the currently preferred option of pigtails - they just have to be hammered into place.'
The trouble is, if the existing bolts are already worn, do you want to put a pigtail on one? And to include the other bolt to make a safer belay you need a length of chain and a maillon (which can be easily stolen unless you glue it shut). If the bolts are worn you're probably better putting in a new two bolt, chain and pigtail set. Expensive and runs risk of leaving a mess. Though once in place the pigtails will last much longer than bolts - and can be easily renewed. Maybe the BMC could help as this is renewing/making safe existing belays. And professionally run groups causing the damage should be requested to contribute/shamed into contributing. The longer term cost of renewing pigtails could be factored into bolt fund planning and any(?!) profit from sport climbing guidebooks.
A bit like planned maintenance of buildings!
In reply to Pekkie: not a bad plan to get publishers to add a fee to the guides to help the bolt funds
Down side is would they want to up rhe cost of aready expencive books?
Down side is would they want to up rhe cost of aready expencive books?
In reply to andyathome:
> (In reply to rg12g09)
>
>
> How many people get their partners to follow sport routes taking out the clips and expect them to rethread and retrieve quickdraws from the top of a route - with nothing clipped in below them? (my hand is down)
>
>I would never get my partner to rethread and retrieve quickdraws from the top of a route with nothing clipped below them or toprope through quickdraws with nothing clipped below them.>
>
> How many people get their partners to follow sport routes taking out the clips and expect them to rethread and retrieve quickdraws from the top of a route - with nothing clipped in below them? (my hand is down)
>
In reply to Tom Beaumont:
> (In reply to nealh)
>>
> One problem I have noticed at Dungecroft during the nesting season is people getting close to the cliff edge at the southernmost end of the quarry causing obvious distress to the nesting peregrine’s on ‘Drowning on Dry Land’. It wouldn’t hurt our cause to politly encourage people to stay away from their at this time. There is no need to go anywhere near the nest to climb any of the dungecroft routes.
Mick Ward and I put up barrier tape and erected signs the year before last when this problem arose. Climbers weren't a problem but there were still sightseers who climbed over the tape to stand on that part of the cliff edge.> One problem I have noticed at Dungecroft during the nesting season is people getting close to the cliff edge at the southernmost end of the quarry causing obvious distress to the nesting peregrine’s on ‘Drowning on Dry Land’. It wouldn’t hurt our cause to politly encourage people to stay away from their at this time. There is no need to go anywhere near the nest to climb any of the dungecroft routes.
In reply to FB:
As Alan James pointed out last time that was suggested, most of the increased price would end up in the pockets of Amazon and the like.
If you feel like contributing:
http://www.ukboltfund.org/
> not a bad plan to get publishers to add a fee to the guides to help the bolt funds
As Alan James pointed out last time that was suggested, most of the increased price would end up in the pockets of Amazon and the like.
If you feel like contributing:
http://www.ukboltfund.org/
In reply to johnl:
On some routes, by far the easiest way to strip them is to second them. However, I always assumed that people were switched-on enough retrieve all the quickdraws bar the last one, which you quickly switch to the belayers rope prior to rethreading to provide a back-up and then remove after you've finished and are being lowered.
As to top-roping just on quickdraws, I always do it when personal climbing, as do pretty much all the climbers I know, so your comment on that makes little sense.
> I would never get my partner to rethread and retrieve quickdraws from the top of a route with nothing clipped below them or toprope through quickdraws with nothing clipped below them.
On some routes, by far the easiest way to strip them is to second them. However, I always assumed that people were switched-on enough retrieve all the quickdraws bar the last one, which you quickly switch to the belayers rope prior to rethreading to provide a back-up and then remove after you've finished and are being lowered.
As to top-roping just on quickdraws, I always do it when personal climbing, as do pretty much all the climbers I know, so your comment on that makes little sense.
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Unfortunately on your average sunny afternoon down at The Cuttings you will see quite possibly the majority of climbers not doing this.
Unfortunately on your average sunny afternoon down at The Cuttings you will see quite possibly the majority of climbers not doing this.
In reply to rg12g09: Went down to take a look at these bolts today. They are indeed too far gone(over half-way through) to use pigs-tails on, so they need drilling out and replacing.
I was asked as I drilled what the problem with the bolts was by an adjacent climber. I explained that that belay was worn through by people top-roping directly through the bolts.
Incredibly, when I was packing up to leave this climber and party were doing just that!! There seems to be a disconnect between peoples actions and the consequences...
Anyhow as the Ex-Engineer above points out, you can easily back up a second with a quick-draw on the 'down rope' if they are retrieving the carabiners from the belay, so I can't think of a reason to top-rope through the anchors: other than laziness...
Happy climbing
Rob
I was asked as I drilled what the problem with the bolts was by an adjacent climber. I explained that that belay was worn through by people top-roping directly through the bolts.
Incredibly, when I was packing up to leave this climber and party were doing just that!! There seems to be a disconnect between peoples actions and the consequences...
Anyhow as the Ex-Engineer above points out, you can easily back up a second with a quick-draw on the 'down rope' if they are retrieving the carabiners from the belay, so I can't think of a reason to top-rope through the anchors: other than laziness...
Happy climbing
Rob
Hi Neal, thanks for the update. Fingers crossed for a favourable outcome. We have tried to keep Dungecroft clean and tidy, even removing rubbish from the bottom of the crag thrown down from above (perhaps). We try to make the public aware of the disturbance to the local birds when you walk to the far end during early summer. A lot of people (including climbers) walk through the quarry thinking they can get to Cheyne cliff and beyond. I got a sentence added to the new guide so climbers don’t waste time trying to get to Cheyne and Neddyfields through the Quarry.
Regarding the gereral ‘toproping through the loweroff bolts’ topic, I climbed on Portland for 10 year before I was told of the problems. It wasn’t laziness on my part, I just didn’t realise that a soft climbing rope could eat its way through a metal bolt.
I was chatting to some ‘outdoor beginners’ at our local indoor wall last week about this very subject and they were all surprised to learn that ropes over time could damage a bolt. Some of them thought I was joking at first.
I think we just need to spread the word as much as possible to try and slow the problem and also install pigtails etc. (I’ll happily help out doing this) where possible on popular routes. Perhaps we could put up laminated signs at Blacknor, Battleship and Cuttings approach paths (similar to Neal’s bird ban notices) outlining the problem and solution. It is also mentioned in the new guidebook so hopefully that will help to spread the word too.
On a separate topic, I have also seen a few groups toproping from one thin sling threaded through the loweroff with the rope running through a screwgate. All the other quickdraws had been removed from the route. I asked them what would happen if their sling broke…….”Erm….”.
Stay safe y’all….
Regarding the gereral ‘toproping through the loweroff bolts’ topic, I climbed on Portland for 10 year before I was told of the problems. It wasn’t laziness on my part, I just didn’t realise that a soft climbing rope could eat its way through a metal bolt.
I was chatting to some ‘outdoor beginners’ at our local indoor wall last week about this very subject and they were all surprised to learn that ropes over time could damage a bolt. Some of them thought I was joking at first.
I think we just need to spread the word as much as possible to try and slow the problem and also install pigtails etc. (I’ll happily help out doing this) where possible on popular routes. Perhaps we could put up laminated signs at Blacknor, Battleship and Cuttings approach paths (similar to Neal’s bird ban notices) outlining the problem and solution. It is also mentioned in the new guidebook so hopefully that will help to spread the word too.
On a separate topic, I have also seen a few groups toproping from one thin sling threaded through the loweroff with the rope running through a screwgate. All the other quickdraws had been removed from the route. I asked them what would happen if their sling broke…….”Erm….”.
Stay safe y’all….
In reply to rg12g09: On the topic of clean ups, a new piece of rubbish that has appeared by the battleship block is a mangled bike - looks like it took the quick way down ...hopefully nobody was on board!
Also a heads up about Peregrines possibly nesting at Blacknor Far South:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=500997&v=1#x6825769
Rob, did you look at the other routes I mentioned re. worn lower offs on your recce today? (Chips & Jam) Probably not half worn through, but well on the way. Thanks for checking things out.
Point made by Adam is a good one, many people toproping through the lower offs are unaware of the damage it causes. I mentioned it to a group at the Veranda yesterday as my part in spreading the word, think I was too polite as they didn't change tactics!
Also a heads up about Peregrines possibly nesting at Blacknor Far South:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=500997&v=1#x6825769
Rob, did you look at the other routes I mentioned re. worn lower offs on your recce today? (Chips & Jam) Probably not half worn through, but well on the way. Thanks for checking things out.
Point made by Adam is a good one, many people toproping through the lower offs are unaware of the damage it causes. I mentioned it to a group at the Veranda yesterday as my part in spreading the word, think I was too polite as they didn't change tactics!
In reply to Adam Perrett:
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'On a separate topic, I have also seen a few groups toproping from one thin sling threaded through the loweroff with the rope running through a screwgate. All the other quickdraws had been removed from the route. I asked them what would happen if their sling broke…….”Erm….”.'
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'On a separate topic, I have also seen a few groups toproping from one thin sling threaded through the loweroff with the rope running through a screwgate. All the other quickdraws had been removed from the route. I asked them what would happen if their sling broke…….”Erm….”.'
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If the sling is a standard 20kn sling not running over rock then I don't see the problem. Also, if the belay is multi bolt connected by a chain (and not set up as a death triangle) why have the rope clipped into quickdraws lower down? Any belay which has at least two bolts is safe in my estimation. You can get too paranoid about this.In reply to Rob Kennard:
Rob - drop me a line with some idea of how many bolts are in this state. Perhaps we can use the Big Bag of Staples with some of Jim Titt's steel rings to replace?
Rob - drop me a line with some idea of how many bolts are in this state. Perhaps we can use the Big Bag of Staples with some of Jim Titt's steel rings to replace?
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