/ Protein shakes!

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Jams - on 10 May 2012
Alright guys!

Iv been wondering this for a while, but Iv never actually looked into it. A lot of my friends use the gym and often take protein shakes in order to gain mass and just generally get bigger!

However I have seen a lot of climbers using them in the past, and i recently went to a climbing centre that served them with water or milk.

In all fairness i have heard that there are different shakes that do different things. E.G. putting on weight or helping recovery.

Now, iv been thinking about using them, but no-one can give me a straight answer. I train 3 times a week minimum and over train too much!(I know its bad).
However my question is... Is it worth using them? If so:
- what shakes are the best to use?
-Is there a different training programme you have to do in order to use them to there full extent?
- Or anything that is useful to this question...

thanks!
Edvin m on 10 May 2012
In reply to Jamesbryant: Eating protein will not give you bigger muscles, you need to stress the body through training to "make it want to build more muscle mass".

Protein is made out of 18 different amino-acids, lack just one of them and the body can't build muscles so even if you have been training and your body wants to build muscles it simply can't. A big portion of proteins will make sure that you have all the different amino-acids available to help repair and build new muscle mass. But muscles take alot of time to repair and form so make sure you get enough proteins at all time, not just straight after training.

I rather eat "real food" because it tastes nicer and you also get alot of vitamins, fibers, minerals etc but tend to eat quite a bit of protein powder anyway because of it's simplicity.
Tiberius - on 10 May 2012
In reply to Jamesbryant:

Drink a few pints of milk, will probably give you enough additonal protine...if you needed it.

Protine shakes will make you fart, and smell...basically your body can't really process it all, so it throws it out.
hillbilly - on 10 May 2012
In reply to Jamesbryant: I give milk a vote. Or chocolate milk if you prefer, stick a bottle in a little cold bag and then you have a great drink as soon as you have finished. It's very good for muscle recovery but I believe is best after the exercise for max efficiency.
long - on 10 May 2012
In reply to Jamesbryant: Some extra protein after your training session may help your recovery (and so make you less likely to over-train) but it's up to you to calculate your current total daily protein intake and see if you're consuming enough already. I don't know but you may eat chicken for breakfast, chicken for lunch and chicken for dinner, in which case I doubt you need a protein shake a day! I think you need about 1 - 2 grams of protein per kg of body weight for muscle repair but I don't know off the top of my head.

For recovery a basic shake of whey protein with some sugar is enough. You want about 3:1 sugar - protein ratio and take it after your session. Check out myprotein.com

Just judging by your picture I'd say (no offence intended) that you don't want to bulk up in the body therefore you need to watch your diet and beware the extra calories in the shake. Bulking up in the forearms and gettting stronger fingers is certainly a priority though.

Regarding training, if you're training for muscle growth protein will help. If endurance is your priority, sugar is a better supplement, to replace glycogen in the muscles.

Good luck!

Regarding the milk comments, that's fine if you can take it to the crag or climbing wall. Milk is pretty much identical in terms of protein and sugar to a protein shake, so 'Tiberius' I don't know the reason you fart and smell but I doubt it's the shake.
geordiepie - on 10 May 2012
In reply to Jamesbryant:

If you're training a lot then it certainly won't do you any harm and may help to build muscle or aid recovery.

Whey Protein Isolate is the prefered choice, especially for post workout drinks. Brand doesn't matter but look for one with as low a fat content as possible. MaxiMuscle advertises a lot, MyProtein is cheaper...I have no idea if one works better than the other.

The amounts suggested by the manufaturers are too much unless you're looking to build serious muscle (i.e. bodybuilding). One post workout and one before bed is enough or mayble 4 daily, but with half the amount of powder. It's supposedly absorbed faster if you use water (post workout), slower with milk (bedtime). Again no idea if this is true.

The only thing I have strong evidence for is that your ar$e will smell like something has dies up there...you have been warned!
54ms - on 10 May 2012
In reply to Tiberius:

A couple of pints of milk would do far worse things to my insides then a 1/2 pint with a scoop of whey. It tastes pretty good as well. :)

You don't have to go overboard with these things, but I've found they do help recovery after sessions.
54ms - on 10 May 2012
In reply to Jamesbryant:

A lot of the ones that bodybuilding types use are loaded with extra stuff like carbs - as you say for gaining mass. Look at their forums for the silly bulking/cutting cycles they do. You can however by whey by itself.

A kg of the stuff lasts me ages and the stuff at my protein is about as cheap as found, although sometimes Holland and Barret do their's half price.

www.myprotein.com/uk/cats/protein/whey-protein
jenniwat001 on 10 May 2012
In reply to Jamesbryant:
I have a protein shake with a banana and strawberries made with skimmed milk for breakfast. keeps me full until lunch. I have trimmed down and bulked up (in a good girly way). I use Holland and Barrett's own 90% soya protein, its got all the amino acids you need, no fat or carbs and is very cheap. I don't smell or fart more than before. Give it a try.
Tiberius - on 10 May 2012
In reply to long:
> ...so 'Tiberius' I don't know the reason you fart and smell but I doubt it's the shake.

I took protine shakes about 25 years ago, I farted and it smelled...as others on this thread have said. I stopped taking them, and I stopped smelling. I didn't examine the contents, maybe it was just the brand I was taking, but there was a 100% concurrence of taking the shakes and smelling.
Fishmate - on 10 May 2012
In reply to Jamesbryant:

I've been using H&B's Whey protein which you can normally get 1/2 price (16 for 1kg) and use it after climbing and running and feel very confident it helps with recovery. As you can only ever perform as well as you can recover it is certainly worth looking into, especially if you think you overtrain. I would look into that as well. Micro tears in tissue etc can turn into big problems a few years down the road.
TheDrunkenBakers - on 10 May 2012
In reply to Jamesbryant:

Makes my farts evil too which I like. My wife likes it too when I force her head under the covers. Hmmm, lovely air biscuit.
jubolo - on 10 May 2012
In reply to Jamesbryant: I'm currently using home made 'Green Monster' smoothies after a wall sesh: spinach, banana, cucumber, celery, carrot, ginger & hemp protein. Probably more like a mini meal in a glass but they taste alright and I think it helps my recovery. There's also the added bonus of no thrutching when on the loo;]

My smoothie maker is one of the best things I've ever bought.
54ms - on 10 May 2012
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
> (In reply to Jamesbryant)
>
> Makes my farts evil too which I like. My wife likes it too when I force her head under the covers. Hmmm, lovely air biscuit.

Sometimes I wish UKC had moved in to the 21st century and had a "like" button.
Rako - on 10 May 2012
In reply to Jamesbryant:
The best thing to do is go with the guidelines in any general exercise physiology text book. Tarnopolsky et al. and Philips et al. figured this stuff out about 15 years ago for all athletes. The athletes that needed the most protein (containing the 8 essential amino acids that the body can't convert from the other AAs) were the ultra endurance athletes since they actually use protein as a fuel (~1.6g/kg body mass) any more and it is either oxidized or stored as fat. Be sure to notice the units which are most often mistaken as per lb, which is incorrect. As well, regular athletes and resistance trained athletes needed no more than 1.2 g/kg.
Milk is a good bet and the chocolate variety adds the carbohydrate source for glycogen repletion post exercise.

Oh and the source of the flatulence is the ammonia/um produced from the breakdown of the protein and amino acids which produce the ammonia/um and carbon skeletons that are then burnt in the mitochondria or reassembled into triglycerides and stored.
siwid - on 10 May 2012
In reply to Jamesbryant:
I use a pint of skimmed milk with a few spoons of skimmed milk powder to up the protein and a spoon or two of nesquick to up the carbs and make it taste good. Tend to find that if I neck one of those right after a session I ache less the next day.
Eagle River - on 11 May 2012
In reply to Jamesbryant:

Without getting into the what you should or shouldn't eat post climbing (as its been covered above) I have found the time at which you eat something post exercise as really important.

For example, I live 30mins from the wall so by the time I've got home and cooked something it'd be up to an hour after finishing climbing before I could re-fuel. For that reason I use one of the "recovery" shakes from myprotein for simplicity straight after climbing to bridge that gap and give my body something to digest before I can get to some proper food. Those more organised could have an egg/tuna sandwich and proper milkshake waiting for them post-climb but I'm far too lazy for that.

Powder in bottle, add water, down in one because it's not very tasty, job done!
kell_boy - on 11 May 2012
Everyone above pretty much has covered what you need to know, I take a pure aviform protein shake, either whey or soy, soy is cheaper, I dont just use it for after climbing I also go to the gym, I dont find i smells when I take them but theres no additives in mine (hence they taste like dirt)

What I would like to clarify for those that dont understand protein for muscles or muscle MASS is that bodybuilders get big muscles from having a high CALORIE diet not just from shakes, surplus enough for their muscles to increase in size, Eating a high amount of protein or drinking protein shakes will not make you gain muscle size regardless of how much carbs etc is in them provided you are still consuming the correct amount of calories to maintain your bodyweight.
Mi|es - on 11 May 2012
In reply to Jamesbryant:

> Is it worth using them?

They're a cheap source of protein and they're convenient to consume wherever you are. It's unlikely to do any harm but I don't know the specifics of your diet so can't really answer.

> What shakes are best to use?

This depends on your own specific needs, myprotein.co.uk has a wide range of products and they all tend to have explanations of what each product does. Pick the one that you feel will assist the problems you think you have.

> Do I need to change my training program?

No. It's just another source of macronutrients, your climbing training should not take into consideration whether or not you're taking supplements.

Oh, and I've never had issues with protein shakes making my farts worse. I use the basic impact whey protein that myprotein sells and never had a problem.
Nath93 - on 11 May 2012
In reply to Jamesbryant: Really, you dont need protein shakes. All you need is good exercise (cardio, weight lifting and climbing combined) and a healthy diet. I took protein for a while but gave up on it, it can really burn a big hole in your pocket.

In regards to recovery, try a recovery shower. Hot water, then cold, then hot then cold etc. It leaves me feeling fresh after running and gym sessions.

The word "supplement" pisses me off a bit because its only doing the job that you food is supposed to. Its supplementing what your not, the money spent on protein powder would be a lot better used if it went into your weekly shopping basket.

Just my opinion though.
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Mi|es - on 12 May 2012
In reply to Nath93:
> (In reply to Jamesbryant) Really, you dont need protein shakes. All you need is good exercise (cardio, weight lifting and climbing combined) and a healthy diet. I took protein for a while but gave up on it, it can really burn a big hole in your pocket.

Find a different supplier, whey protein is far cheaper than the standard sources of protein (chicken, beef etc).



Nath93 - on 12 May 2012
In reply to Mi|es: Tried Maxi Muscle and Optimum Nurtition, neither had great effect.

Yes but supplement your normal amount of chicked and beef with things like beans and lentils and you have a fair amount of protein. Its not all about the meat !

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