/ First ascent citations
To acknowledge the efforts of both seconds, I have suggested an FA citation of this form:
FA 23 Oct 2012 [Leader], [second on successful attempt], [second on first attempt]
This is the format used in southern Arizona where multiple attempts on FA's are quite frequent due to the remote, multi-pitch nature of the climbing. I know of a citation with 8 different seconds listed.
The leader has chosen to remove the second on the first attempt from the citation.
Before anyone asks, I was not either of these seconds although I am friends with all parties involved in the FA.
What is the consensus here on this issue? Should the second on the first attempt appear in the citation?
Sometimes the person seconding the route on a traverse can face the adjectival crux. They certainly should be cited equally in such circumstances.
Ask them? Otherwise not really fussed!
Going to make guide books very thick if we include failed attempts and the seconds as well.
>"Should the second on the first attempt appear in the citation?"
No, if he was all that worried about getting his name in the guide he should have turned out for the second attempt. Hell mend him, I say!
Well the first ascent was the first ascent, whether you dogged it, aided it or whatever. Whether a guide author would bother with the recording the first ascent eliminating the rest point is up to them and the local style.
Well that's just silly. Going by that argument you might as well record every person who's ever tried to lead something prior to the FA!
Regarding the seconds on early attempts, they all contributed to the final success regardless of whether they dogged the route or not.
I'm going to start hanging out with Adam Ondra...the minute he has finished bolting his latest 9c project I'm going to jump on it, fall off 2' off the ground, and claim to be a party to the first ascent! Fame beckons!
Are we talking about some huge multi-pitch remote route in the UK?!
> Regarding the seconds on early attempts, they all contributed to the final success regardless of whether they dogged the route or not.
Well tradition says we donīt have a list of the hundreds of people who failed on Rays Roof for example. Nor do we list all those who contributed to the succesful first ascent, the list of porters and Sherpas for Everest would make a long book. The ones who first got from the bottom to the top get the credit, not the guy who worked the machine that made the rope that they used.
> I'm going to start hanging out with Adam Ondra...
Okay. I see where this going, but I do think the person who hangs in there putting up with the ego (and in some cases painfully slow climbing) of those on lead deserve some credit. Where would the chap be without his faithful belayer.... soloing the route?
yes but many guides have recorded 1st ascents with aid and then said who freed it too.
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