UKC

does anybody know what the conditions are like on great end in the lakes?? maybe going up that way tommorow, forecast looks quite wintry but webcams of the lakes look pretty bare!!

In reply to droberts: This was yesterday on the top of great end.

https://twitter.com/WTWilliamson/status/264068658211475456/photo/1

There won't be any ice to climb. I would imagine a bit of soft snow in the top of the gullies if that's your thing.

In reply to ablackett: cheers looks like it could just be a bit of a scramble then!!nice little warm up for the 3rd of november

In reply to droberts: I was on high st today very wet with snow above 750 meters,freezing level above 900 meters though so running with water. i expect the same over all the lakes. Helvellyn very white.

In reply to droberts: the snows only been on the ground for a few days... we've got a while to wait yet!

In reply to droberts:
I was on Blencathra yesterday and the freezing level was just above the summit. Some things were just starting to freeze in the wind, but this has mainly been on a SW, which is a rubbish direction for winter crags in the Lakes. The ground underneath the snow was very wet.

So, after a thaw and freeze a good strong cold wind from a northerly direction could eventually start to bring some things into good winter condition, if some of this snow survives the thaw next week...

NMM

In reply to droberts: I know tomorrow has gone for you but for anyone else!!!

https://twitter.com/WasdaleWarren/status/264658262559973376/photo/1

In reply to bluebealach: didnt end up going up there today so going tommorow as the weather looks better what are your plans??

In reply to droberts:
Crags on scafell looked plastered today and a good freeze tonight should see a few routes on the west face like pikes. Same with gable crag from what I could see.

In reply to droberts: Just getting out on the fells tomorrow from Seathwaite to Great End via the Seathwaite/Rosthwaite Fells and Glaramara.

Back up to Wasdale on Monday for a jaunt up there.

You??

In reply to droberts:
Looks to have been quite a drop today. Caldbecks white over, as are most of the tops on the.western fells.

In reply to bluebealach: going up to helvellyn ealry tommorow going to scout around up red tarn grove and see what gully 1 looks like then just see on the weather and conditions what we do after!

In reply to droberts:

I went up Sharp Edge this afternoon. There's a decent covering of snow from the tarn upwards and drifting knee deep in places up on top, but it's purely cosmetic and not consolidated at all. There were crampon prints around but I didn't put mine on.

The turf underneath wasn't anywhere near freezing and exposed rock was wet. Good to be out but it wouldn't have been worth the bother carrying climbing gear. Might be a bit better first thing tomorrow morning but it'd more time to freeze down properly.

Be aware of the environmental issues on Helvellyn before you thrash around with tools there in unfrozen conditions.

In reply to droberts:

Hi, was out on Helvellyn today and put some info about conditions on here -

http://mountaincircles.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/lake-district-winter-conditio...

In terms of climbing theres not a lot on offer yet, classic edges and rocky ridges will be snow covered and give a good day, nothing that depends on turf will be in though, it was soggy and insulated by snow on the tops. Great winters day though otherwise...

Helvellyn Gullies will definitely not be in condition tomorrow, they need freeze thaw cycles to harden the snow up. Better something rocky, Pinnacle Ridge on St.Sunday could be worth a look? its rocky and has no turf on the climbing sections and has a good covering of snow...

Paddy

In reply to droberts:

Second that Paddy Pinnacle ridge looks well covered, shit loads of fresh powder in the Eastern coves and the edges were fantastic, went from whiteout in the showers to blue skies, amazing views with all the hills in the distance with a good covering. Maybe going to do Pinnacle Ridge or Sharp Edge tomorrow haven't decided yet Hope this is the way this winter is going to pan out it's certainly started early.

In reply to Wesley Orvis: thanks for the update paddy great insight there into the conditions!!will take your advice and give pinnacle ridge a go and check out the conditions.

In reply to Wesley Orvis: What did you do then Wesley?? Hope you had a good day, weather was cracking

In reply to droberts:
Well it's a bracing -2 at sea level at the moment.

I'm considering to do the Coldale round this coming weekend if there's enough snow I might put my B3s on just so I can get some walking mileage done and get used to them for the season again. Any advise on what to look out for, or would it even be worth putting the big boots on at all?!?!

In reply to hfac:

Hard to say at this stage, still plenty of snow about, see today -

http://mountaincircles.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/ski-touring-helvellyn-05-11-1...

In reply to hfac:
Given the forecast my money's on everything melting before the weekend.

In reply to Toreador: I took a walk up to the top of brown cove crag yesterday evening and judging by the build-up in hollows and gully lines I think it may just hold on to a bit of snow where it has built up and remains relatively protected and out of the sun, if only it would just re-freeze there could be some reasonable sport to be had !

In reply to Petarghh:
Hope you're right. But how much powder is likely to survive a few days of freezing level well above the summits, gales force winds, and constant drizzle/rain?

In reply to droberts: Awesome! I've got a long weekend due from Thursday and had planned on some wild camping and maybe some easy gully climbs..."further north i shall head" *yoda Voice*

In reply to Toreador:
Been raining all day and much milder in West Cumbria.

In reply to Toreador:
I agree. Above 4 C and rain/drizzle = turbo thaw

NMM

In reply to hfac: You wont need big boots.

In reply to hfac:

Wear your big boots if you want to get used to them again. Not going to hurt anyone wearing them with no snow about.

In reply to droberts:

Any snow left on the tops

In reply to xplorer: None on Blencathra when I drove past it yesterday afternoon. It has been warm (for time of year) in Penrith, so can't imagine any snow left..

In reply to xplorer:
Nothing in the Coniston range, and view over Scafell showed nothing. A few tiny patches on the summit ridge of the Helvellyn range.
But to all intents and purposes, it's back to square one.

In reply to droberts:

What's the temperature been like around the lakes.

Noticed snow has fallen today?

In reply to xplorer: Snow over the tops, but not cold enough for the turf to freeze I would guess,

looks better for later in the week ?

In reply to Petarghh:

How cold has it been up there

In reply to xplorer: Was up st sunday crag yesterday and Striding Edge looked in full nick but maybe not frozen but it looked atmospheric.

the weather front looks pretty awesome for the end of the week!

In reply to Darkskys:
Hi,

What was the snow line yesterday and what was the ground like on top of St Sunday crag? I am keen to get out next weekend, but I am thinking that the higher crags on Helvellyn will be too buried and insulated by snow to freeze properly... So something lower could be on the cards!!!

Also, was there as much snow in the W Lakes?

NMM

In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey: couldn't see the Western Lakes but majority of the tops on the drive in looked covered.

Snow line was at 750m and was a half a foot deep. If the weather pans out as predicted looks like Lake District conditions thread will be pretty active soon

Have fun pal

In reply to droberts: Was in the lakes today, freezing level above summits and very, very, very wet! Horizontal rain and complete quagmire underfoot, may have to wait a touch longer for wintery fun!

In reply to robric:

Looking at the weather reports the temperatures have been pretty low among most of the mountain tops. Does anyone have any info on coverage?

Cheers, Si

In reply to droberts:

from my window looks good snow cover from about 750m in the east, and it's very cold in Kendal this morning.

In reply to droberts:

Siddaw has a good covering on the George Fisher web cam this morning as well as Fairfield on the Climbers shop web cam again all down to about 750m, fingers crossed for the weekend if these sub zero temps stick around as promised.

In reply to droberts: Does anybody have any info on the conditions on great end?
any snow or ice at all
.might be heading up this weekend trying to see if it will be worth the journey?

In reply to droberts:
Given the rain then snow onto wet ground to insulate it you may be being a tad optimistic for Greatend where the buttresses use a lot of turf and the gullies are predominantly snow climbs requiring consolidated snow to be any fun. Also remember that in poor snow conditions a quick exit in the wrong direction in the company of a lot of snow is always possible from the upper half of Central Gully. I would stick to rocky ridges/buttresses if I were you given the likely marginal condtions and environmental sensitivity of many lakes winter climbs (see new FRCC Guide for full details).

In reply to droberts:

>> There won't be much snow on Great End, some ice though.
I checked the fells at 2:30 this pm from a viewpoint to the north. There was light snow on the tops, but not enough to say, fill gullies such as Great End (which I couldn't see.) Looking west, from north to south, there was light snow on the tops of:-
Blencathra,Grisedale Pike,Grassmoor,Great Dodd,Raise,Catchedigam & Helvellyn. I think that there was snow on St. Sunday crag but by then the low sun was in my eyes, so not sure.
Also, there was an earthquake in Patterdale last night at 9:45 pm, also felt in Borrowdale, magnitude 2.1

In reply to mockerkin:

I've just uploaded a photo of Blencathra 2.30 pm today, which should appear in the next 24 hours on UKC. It shows the snow cover better than I can describe it.

In reply to droberts:

The met forecast for next five days is looking cracking

In reply to xplorer: local says rain Sunday IN WEST

In reply to stuart58:

Rain will be snow higher up.

In reply to droberts:

minus 2.5 outside in Kendal at the moment.

In reply to xplorer:

That's not what's currently forecast, but only a degree or two in it.

In reply to Toreador: fab, got this weekend in the lakes and was planning sharp edge/halls fell. Sorted , better start sharpening my tools.

In reply to avayaman:
A nippy minus 4 on the Cumbrian coast at the mo, so should be colder up top. Rain forecsst for Sunday though!

In reply to droberts:

Minus 6.5 this morning Kendal

In reply to Toreador:
forecast seems to have changed, long range on unisys improved too, ecmwf isn't working just now.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/loutdoor/mountainsafety/lakedistrict/lakedistri...

In reply to Ridge:

Seems like its freezing too much for some!!

http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2012/11/29/grasmoor-paraglider-and-robinso...

In reply to avayaman:

Sharp Edge was black yesterday, I wouldn't bother with the tools.

In reply to droberts:

Was thinking of Sharpe Edge myself, any updates much appreciated.

This still looking bare?

In reply to droberts:
Helvelyn had the most snow cover especially red tarn cove but must insist "full winter conditions" are not in. The turf is sodding wet underneath the snow and nowhere near frozen. Striding was in decent nick and would defo require crampons. Why couldn't it have froze like this for a few days then snowed!!!!

In reply to David Cowley:

Ok, so climbings out

What are the options for a wintry hillwalk? Would prefer to avoid helvellyn as always seem to end up there, can anyone comment on whether scafell pike or bow fell/crinkle crags have got much snow on them at the moment? I've tred looking for webcams, not been much help, though the one of the great gable suggested I shouldn't get my hopes up too high...

Cheers
Gregor

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:


I passed the Lakes on the train the day before yesterday. Beautiful sunshine, everything looked very white, including Sharp Edge. I've never had such a clear view of Helvellyn from the train before. Nor, from just before Oxenholme, seen Gable looming so obviously behind the Langdale Pikes.

In reply to Tim Chappell:

Thanks Tim, sounds hopeful...!

Anyone been up lagngdale in the last couple of days for a close up look...?

Cheers

Gregor

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs: I know i also get sick of the helvelyn massif but as we know it tends to hold the snow the best. The western fells appeeared to have less snow but the scafell massif did seem to have a smattering, high street st.sunday and fairfield all appeared to have decent snow at summit level

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs: I went up scafell pikes yesterday evening. some good hard snow in places where wind scoured and decent cover from great end to the pikes. some rime forming too. Nice watching moon rise from the top.

In reply to droberts:

Its still very cold, water ice is starting to form in the valley but dont know about higher up. From the south at least there looks like very little white stuff, the very tops of kentmere and out the back of great end is all i can see white. Could do with a bit of freeze thaw, might be a nice weekend for a cold wintery scramble.

In reply to Tim Chappell:very cold last night here in northern lakes my outside thermometer was reading minus 6.5 at 8am this morning took a quick walk up barrow this morming lots of running water frozen solid

In reply to Tim Chappell:

of course Sharp Edge is snowy, in a parrallel universe somewhere, it is like the Hummingbird ridge on steroids, tread carefully.

In reply to droberts: Went up Striding Edge and down Swirral today. I spoke to a guy who climbed the headwall who said the snow wasn't much good.

I dug a small snow pit in the north side of Striding Edge and found 1 - 2 inches of hard snow on top, with 3 - 4 inches of soft, powdery snow underneath, with a 1 inch thick bottom layer of compacted snow. If it's the same in the gullies, then I doubt it would be sensible or pleasant to climb in them yet. Striding Edge was in reasonable condition though.

In reply to droberts:

Fresh snow down to about 500m in the east this morning

In reply to droberts: anyone fancy working my Saturday so I can head out...packet of Quavers in it for you!

In reply to droberts: The fell-top assessors start recording daily conditions from helvellyn today.
http://www.lakedistrictweatherline.co.uk/

In reply to droberts:

My mate was out running around the edges today and reported people climbing in the gully's and on the buttress's, anyone got any feedback?

In reply to droberts:
We did Striding Edge, Nethermost Gully and down Swirral. New snow throughout the Lakes above 2400ft or so. Gullies still a little short of snow and ice. Spoke to groups on V Corner and Gully 1 who both said conditions were good. Certainly a good day out!

In reply to droberts:

Thanks for the update, exactly the two routes i needed to know about, i want to comlete v-corner as had to abb off last year above the corner as the exit slopes were unstable.

In reply to droberts:

Did a route on Rampsgill Head today which was in condition

In reply to droberts:

Engineers area on Gable was in cracking mixed nick today - not many taking advantage mind!

In reply to chris m fisher: do you know what it is like on Scafell??

In reply to droberts:

Did gully no.1 on Red Tarn Face today and was in condition wouldn't say perfect condition but definitley in, lots of water ice and the crux felt more like III.

In reply to droberts:

Dollywaggon North was also in very good condition today - one other team, (also made up of ukcers!) there too.

In reply to Wesley Orvis: That wee narrow section can be awkward in lean conditions. Anybody on Bladerunner?

In reply to droberts:

Viking Buttress looked fantastic, yes there was a couple of guides on it.

In reply to Exile: Yes, that was us. Nice to chat to you. Rescue Groove wasn't really in - first 10m frozen but then a crucial sod was not frozen so I backed off. Other things in good nick though. Jogebar Gully nowhere near formed, nor were the icefalls to its left.

In reply to droberts:

Snowing heavy in Kendal at the moment, the predicted rain has arrived as snow!

In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Got any pics you can share - good news indeed. Snow snow when do we want it now!

In reply to A Game of Chance:

Sorry turned to rain overnight, just a wet miserable mess now!

In reply to droberts: Langdale-4.5 degrees at 100m, plastered, due to cool down

Was on red tarn cove today. Conditions were good and some solid frozen turf in the gullies. Good covering on the buttresses and the edges were in great nick. As we were leaving approx 11.00 the tempreture had risen significantly so I'd expect conditions to deteriorate overnight unless there is another freeze.

In reply to Francis Charlesworth:

I think it will just get better and better over the next few days given the rising and falling freezing level and a bit more snow.

In reply to Exile: Sunday turf was good on pinnacle ridge gable (less snow less insulation)

In reply to jas wood:

are all the ridges still in condition?

Anybody got any photo's from today?

In reply to Sliabh1982: check out the lakes weatherline daily photos.....this will give you an idea of conditions on Helvellyn the ridges are in....

Do you think the gullies around red tarn cove may be in good condition by weds or thurs? Also thinking about brown cove crags or great end. Any reports or opinions would be most appreciated thanks

In reply to jas wood:

What did the rest of the crag look like Jas?

In reply to markymark31:

I think there could be a high avalanche risk in the gullys by Wednesday with all the fresh snow and more due over the next 24 hours sitting on top of the old crust, but there again it has had freeze thaw for the last few days so it's anyones guess, best you go up there and see, as it's definitley worth the visit but maybe something rocky and ridgey though there was loads of rime on the rock on Sunday.

In reply to markymark31:
Was up on Brown Cove on saturday night and did the Left Hand Buttress II and the Left Branch of Central gully II, which had a suprising amount of ice and snow ice in it although it was certainly thin. The buttress was a little sparse at the bottom, but good neve above that and good enough for soloing. Should have improved too.

NMM

Cheers ill keep an eye on here leading up to Thursday. I know a few people have climbed some gully's on red tarn cove and said in pretty good nick over weekend. Hoping that the freeze thaw might make things even better. I see on weatherline only light snow showers forecast so fingers and toes crossed all will be ok

In reply to Exile: Where the crag was steep the turf was grand but where less steep the snow was insulating it a wee bit.Engineers slab looked white-ish but not hoared up as was bottlescrue and the like.
No Idea what will have happened with more snow down on it but there wasn't a massive amount of snow on sunday.

Pinnacle is a top route and my mates first winter route :O) i see no reason why it would not still be in.

In reply to droberts: This is no relflection on anyone in particular.
Helvelyn is not the only winter crag in the lakes and is certainly far from the best ! A small amount of thought and taking a chance often gives a better day.

In reply to jas wood: I'm very tempted to go to pinnacle at gable over the weekend with a mate, just wondering, is winter pro needed on the route or will it be ok with just rocks and hexes and slings?

In reply to hfac: no ice screws needed but i think i placed a warthog in turf. Mostly slings and rock gear from memory, a few sections are run out a little but only on easy ground.

In reply to hfac: Oh green gable also looked okay from a distance

In reply to jas wood:

Ssshh!

In reply to jas wood: Right. I only really have summer gear and don't have time/transport to get to a shop to get any winter gear..Should be able to cope with pinnacle I suppose. If not I guess I'll have to order a bulldog online tomorrow! :S

In reply to hfac:

I did it without placing any turf gear - you will be fine wwith a rock rack

In reply to droberts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oY87xR7WvE&feature=plcp

In reply to hfac:

>> Believe me, if you only have summer gear, don't venture into the high lake fells now.

In reply to mockerkin: by summer gear he is reffering to his rack, not clothing. which you should be okay with to climb this route if your comfortable at the grade.

In reply to John Kelly:

I'm not sure what to make of this video. It's a slightly laughable rambo style representation of what winter running in the lakes is all about. But my overwhelming feeling having watched it is that I want to get the chap some gloves.

In reply to ablackett:

That footage is hilarious. There's more where that came from if you're after a good laugh. Appears the runner acting out Rambo is Mr Ashworth.

In reply to droberts:

Lakeland conditions yesterday were great, snow/rain today though, could be good if another freeze follows....

Update and photos on here -

http://www.mountaincircles.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/alpine-lakes-unleashed.ht...

In reply to paddy cave:
Looking pretty cold up high just now only a bit east of eastern lakes
http://www.wunderground.com/weather-forecast/UK/Great_Dun_Fell.html

mountain weather forecasts don't look like a high up thaw until saturday

In reply to paddy cave:
anyone local - is it likely to be raining or snowing on the tops at the moment? could make the difference between good conditions or avalanche central!

pissing down in carlisle all day. the hills will be getting plastered higher up.

In reply to dan bulman: Hope so! Heading to Fairfield/Seat Sandle tomorrow for a bit of early season "winter skills" stuff

In reply to droberts: It's been raining steadily in Keswick all day, with the snowline being about the 700m level on Skiddaw, though it has been snowing as low as Threlkeld (150m) at times. I would expect substantial accumulations of unconsolidated snow, which will probably need to go through a thaw and freeze before it consolidates. Hopefully the warmer weather this weekend will allow this to happen.

In reply to Toreador: raining in ambleside, ive just got down from fairfield and another group just got down from bowfell, can confirm its snowing heavily above around 700m, drifts to waist deep and generally knee deep snow on trails.

definitely avalanche conditions!!

In reply to Petarghh:
Its looking potentially awesome next week - a light thaw with some rain this weekend and then turning very cold but sunny and dry.

In reply to droberts:

Shit loads of snow falling up high, Shap Road closed up to Shap with drifts across the road, it's been swapping between heavy rain and heavy snow in Kendal all day , the mountains look plastered, avalanche city this weekend in my opinion.

In reply to Wesley Orvis:
especially if it warms up and rains!

In reply to CurlyStevo:


I'm off work next wednesday and i'm hoping its going to be awesome !

In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Is there another kendal ? not seen anything but rain in kendal today

In reply to droberts:

Well snow down to my son in laws back garden in Bowston and snowing heavy there at the moment which is no higher than 100m potter Fell covered, Potter Fell covered at about 250m snowline.

In reply to droberts:

When i woke up this morning it was white, throughout the day on Hallgarth it has swapped between rain and snow allday like i said, but not white on the ground anymore.

In reply to droberts: Does anyone know what the condtions on blencthra are like? Is there still snow on it and would it be prone to avalanches on saturday ?
Plus do you need a pair of axes for the grade 1 gullys in the lakes ?

In reply to droberts: Took a stroll out today to see what was in on Great Gable, the whole crag around pinnacle ridge was in top nick with frozen turf / snow and ice forming, shame about the 60mph wind which put pay to our days activities.

In reply to BarmyAlex118: I would imagine it would be pretty sketchy this coming weekend, you'd only need one axe for grade 1 gullies, but after today they will be loaded with fresh snow especially on north through eastern aspects. needs a good thaw and refreeze to calm it down.

In reply to Radioactiveman: I think we met in DWs last year. You still working out?

Ian.

In reply to Petarghh: It is looking very promising for next week...

In reply to BarmyAlex118: I've not been out but I'd imagine Blencathra would be in alright condition but lots of fresh unconsolidated snow. Sharp edge would be a good one to do but think the gullies will be a bit sketchy.
One axe is fine, last year I even managed Sharp edge without bothering with crampons though there were people who opted for them.

Looks like Pinnacle ridge at Gable will be a good one for the weekend then!
Anyone have anymore good ridge suggestions? (grade II or III)

Btw, (searching for a partner next weekend!)

In reply to hfac:

Looking at the forecasts, I think I'll be out next w/e too - might even get the Friday off too - expect a 'Lifts and Partners' post if I can't get any of my 'usual suspects' out.

I'm going to chance it and bide my time for better conditions rather than risk the avalanche potential and warm temps this w/e...

PP.

In reply to Ian Black:

Hi Mate

I stopped going to the gym as soon as my leg started functioning properly, moved up to Kendal now. Enjoyed the gym but preferred doing stuff outside.

Went up Skiddaw today, masses of snow coming in, waist deep in places above 700m or so. Rain down in Keswick, looking across to St Johns-in-the-Vale snow was settling.

In reply to droberts:

Anybody got reports of the Coniston old Man / Dow Crag area?

In reply to Exile: went into low water last sat, nothing was in then i know thats not very helpful as its a week old but better than nothing!!

In reply to Graham Stephenson:

Thanks Graham - was wondering if Dow was frozen enough to climb on but below the majority of the snow that fell yesterday. probably a long shot.

In reply to Radioactiveman:





Areet, aye thought it was you! Ditto, it has to be outdoors everytime. Training for the Raid Pyreneen so not doing a lot of weights at the moment. Looking forward to a good winter and remain hopeful some of the classics like Dove crag gully will be in this year again. All the best.
Ian.

In reply to droberts: Crap over Keswick/Grassmere/Seat Sandle etc today. Big thaw, rain, slush, waste of a drive over

In reply to Martin1978: the tops look plastered from Ambleside, there will have been a thaw but there looks to be snow down to around 500/600 meters I would expect mixed stuff on northern aspects might be the best things going right now, especially if the forecast re-freeze happens next week.

In reply to Martin1978:







Monday's the day!!

I was on Helvelyn (red tarn cove)on Wednesday and done V-corner and Bladerunner. There was quite a lot of ice on V-Corner, managed to get 3 ice screws in. Bladerunner was poor and not in condition, turf in areas was unfrozen. Keep to the buttresses and out of the gully and you should be fine.

In reply to Petarghh:
freezing level likely about 700 metres today
http://www.wunderground.com/weather-forecast/UK/Great_Dun_Fell.html
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/nw/keswick_latest_weather.html
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/loutdoor/mountainsafety/lakedistrict/lakedistri...

In reply to Ian Black: It will be next Friday before I get over again, hopefully be worthy of an Alpine start then

Still, got a couple of pastys in Grassmere so I'll enjoy them with a pint later! The most expensive pasty in the world? Probably!

In reply to Martin1978:
How far up the hill did you get? Weather stations seem to be confirming the forecast freezing line at 700 meters or so.

In reply to Martin1978:







I'm partial to the ones in the shop accross from Cunninghams in Ambleside, think its called the Apple Pie? Very tasty after a day on the hill, I believe they have them flown up form Cornwall.

In reply to droberts: Took a look at dolleywagon north and south crags today, loads of fresh snow, sprindrift and windy. The turf was not frozen and the buttresses were difficult due to the new snow. A word of warning, dolleywagon north crag has large cornices all along the whole crag with most cracked and sagging heavily.

Big avalanche risk all over 1 person got avalanched on bowfell today, all ok luckily. There will be more this weekend with the weather warming slightly
Be safe

In reply to boots:





It won't stop some hovering around the Gullies at the weekend. Conditions could be really good in the coming week...

Big freeze Tuesday onwards..... personally I won't be going anywhere near the gullies at the mo....looking great for next week

In reply to droberts:

In the lakes for the day tomorrow.

I know the conditions are pretty poor, but can anyone recomend me any routes, easy grade, worth doing. Ridges maybe?

In redoesply to xplorer: does anyone know if sharp edge is ok

In reply to droberts:

Nobody?

In reply to xplorer:

Pinicle ridge, St Sundays? If it gets too wrm you'll still be able to have a scramble.

In reply to xplorer:
I have just posted some photo's taken at Blea Water today (Blea Water Gill, Birkett's Gully). Conditions update too

http://www.facebook.com/AdventureToday1

In reply to droberts:

This thread is going to drive me nuts. At the moment my 85 year old mother has seen more ice action than me after decking herself on black ice going to church on Saturday. That leaves me babysitting while she has a wrist brace on for possible scaphoid fracture. When the forecast comes on I just stick my fingers in my ears and go " la la la la -not listening".

In reply to droberts:

Just back from a days walking, snow is very firm but with some interesting accumulations on south east facing slopes, at least up on red screes. Could have been firm but didnt fancy testing it. Snowing a little up high, lots of ice on paths above 500m.
Turf seemed mostly frozen but the odd pocket of unfrozen stuff.

Few more days of coldness and it will hopefully be good. Anyone go climbing today? didn't see anyone.

In reply to peas65: been on brown cove today did central gully temp gone up but plenty of good scope some ice and good turf

In reply to stuart58:

Climbed Central Gully r branch Great End today-lot of snow,turf well covered but where seen frozen-good solid placements.No one else on it while i was there-surprising but there may have been some worries re avalanche potential perhaps?-seemed fairly ok overall though-some old debris at the bottom

In reply to adrian clifford:

Four teams out on Cambridge Crag(?) North Buttress and Bowfell Buttress today. Weather and conditions started out as being very good but temp went above the tops early afternoon ish making the snow slushy, although the turf remained frozen. Also got a bit drizzly. Nobody on Bowfell Buttress, (the route,) which was quite a suprise.

In reply to droberts: what do people think conditions will be like tomorrow ? its hard to gauge from the forecasts.

shall I just wait till next week ?

In reply to Petarghh: Was out on Blencathra on Saturday, quite a few parties descending as we were going up, conditions were ok, quite a lot of snow. Also corniced at the edges along the summit plateau.

Total whiteout when we were at the summit and had to do some proper navigation to get off the hills towards the west. Snow was up to knee depth in places around the summit plateau, not too consolidated.

On the way home looking out the bus the snowline seems to have retreated significantly but I think it's gotten colder throughout the day.

In reply to Exile: just done right buttress crack on brown cove crag today

In reply to stuart58:

How was it, was planning on midweek for a sneaky solo mission.

In reply to stuart58:
I dont normally make comments on here but must say I was appalled to see people climbing on brown cove crags today. In the time I was there i saw a steady stream of turf rock and ice coming down the crag. It was not frozen at all, you should be ashamed of yourself for damaging the crag / environment.

In reply to macinboots:
Well that is rubbish, if that is true why do people do this, the routes would still be there next week, the forcast is for a good freeze again, i hope the route has not been stripped of any uasable ice/turf, freeze thaw is all part of the process, it's a waiting game, conditions come and go, show a little patience and decorum, allow routes to build.

In reply to droberts:

Did sharp edge on Blencathra today, very little snow on it or on the approach. I used crampons, the rest of my party didn't. Party behind didn't but were roped.

Windpacked crusty snow on top, maybe 30cm depth with lots of bare patches - has been stripped massively.

Friends were on central gully on great end - reported soft snow, pretty bad conditions.

In reply to macinboots:

Totally agree Mac. Quagmire is an idiot.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Wind your'e neck in, i wasn't climbing today, but asking about conditions, if everything was thawing it was evidently not in condition sherlock.

In reply to Quagmire:

I think Dave might have misread the post above and meant to write Stuart58?

In reply to macinboots: its funny how I was climbing on ice and frozen turf and snow on the rocks, im against people climbing in unsuitable conditions, I wouldnt climb on it otherwise. I ve been on roots in perfect conditions and seen ice rocks and turf fall down im climved there yesterday as well. Do ever make comments about the appalling crampon scratches on bowfell.or c route on Dow.

In reply to stuart58:
I expected you to defend your appalling ethics on here but truly you know the conditions were not right today. If you think you were correct maybe you should revisit what is and is not suitable conditions. I could squeeze water out of the snow at all levels today. On the higher and windblow faces there was a crust of a couple of cms but under that the ground/snow is very wet or at best partially frozen.
I know it is hard and frustrating waiting for the right conditions, my friends will testify to my lack of ice/snow blues.
I dont expect you to agree with this but all i would ask is that you treat the environment with a little more respect

In reply to stuart58:
just received this

Hi where you the guy that came up on tele ski ?
We skied down under the crag to check conditions out someone stoped on
there way up on skis and spoke to us.
I could not belive those guys where on that route !!

Got some pictures shocking when you zoom in !!

I think this confirms what i said

and yes it was me on the tellys ( i didnt put your name above on purpose)
Hope you had a good rest of the day, still some good snow out there for skiing

In reply to macinboots: It may not be my place to say this but...
Please could this conversation be taken up through private messages or in a more suitable forum rather then in the "Lakes Winter Conditions" forum.
So far this forum has been a useful resource, allowing people to make informed decision about where suitable winter climbing conditions are. Let's keep it that way and avoid its falling into another winter ethics/appropriate conditions debate.

Cheers!

In reply to Francis Charlesworth: to everybody who really cares climb it with crampons and axes or not, its only a f..king crag theres hundreds of them how much damage do you cause unless hurling great great lumps of turf off scratches ive seen more on my girlfriends back she dont complain theyre only temporary from enjoying yourself!

In reply to droberts:
Just got back from red tarn. Lots of black rock and soggy turf.

In reply to goose299:
looks like there could be quite a major thaw friday.

In reply to droberts:

Was up Red Tarn this morning.

It's been quite stripped up there, rock was black and turf c.750m was not frozen.

Didn't feel like winter to us, we didn't climb. Imagine the edges would be good though! Nice morning.

In reply to droberts: Was on great end yesterday (sunday) Conditions were not good, turf didnt appear to be completley frozen and snow very soft and slushy. There is very very little ice of which is very brittle. I was on great end until around 4pm and the temps were still far too warm for a major freeze. My advice is to stay away from gullies on great end until there is a good freeze.

In reply to Francis Charlesworth:

how can people make an informed decision if misleading statements go unchallenged?

In reply to Dave Cumberland:






Should have gone to Specsavers!!!

In reply to droberts: Agree with Francis, lets leave this thread to reporting conditions. Someone has set up a thread for the discussion of ethics.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=530633&lgn=43298

Sunday 9th Dec. we were round by Bowfell Buttress hoping to climb north Gully. Climbing conditions were poor so we opted out. We still had a good day out in the hills.
Images and more info at http://www.paulhorsmanphotographer.blogspot.co.uk/

In reply to paulh.0776:

Never ceases to amaze me how quickly the snow goes - Bowfell Buttress was pretty much white on Saturday morning.

In reply to luke_rob123: Gullies on great end good this morning. Central left branch in good nick and ice pitch was good, window was in good shape and icefalls complete but a tad hollow and SE gully was OK with the thin sections passable but not in brilliant nick to be honest.

Must have been shite on sunday looking at the 3ft post holes and mess people had made swimmming in the usual spots.

In reply to jas wood:


I suspect you are correct there - it was pretty mild

In reply to droberts:

Did right parallel gully and the big wide gully that you could ski down on Browncove Crags today, rock hard neve all the way, if a bit thin in places but could stick to the neve all the way up on both gullies without damaging any turf or rock, all buttress's and other gullies completely bare with only the two parallel gullies and the big wide one complete. Whoever has climbed on Central Gully yesterday or Saturday has completely fu##ed the turf at the bottom of the gully, on the ice ice pitch, the ice is not there and massive chunks of turf are severely damaged and lying at the bottom with chunks just hanging there half attached, it realy looks a state and probs will never repair. Shame on you, things are there but if not you have to be willing to change plans or not climb.

In reply to droberts:

Excellent turf up on Brown Cove today, loads out making the most of the weather too!

In reply to Stewy12: what route did u say

In reply to stuart58: sorry do

In reply to stuart58:

Right Buttress Crack & Central Gully.

Not a huge amount of snow, decent ice forming & turf absolutely bombproof. Must have been about 10+ people there. Awesome weather!

In reply to Stewy12: I got slagged of doing the buttress route on sunday but I dont want to ruin any other routes tomorrow will the summer scramble route b in you think

In reply to stuart58:

We went upto Red Tarn yesterday and chose not to climb as turf (to us) was not properly frozen. Today was completely different with rock solid turf and a fair bit of good useable ice. Didn't stick to routes, just took detours hunting for the best line.

There was 1 team on Stepped Ridge.

In reply to droberts: also at brown cove today. Did right and left parallel gully. About 30 to 40cm of really solid snow. Excellent axe placement. Loads of means out today. Turf to the side of the gully frozen solid in some places; but still bit soft in other places .

In reply to droberts: any snow in kentmere does anyone know? im not a climber, but looking for a day out tomorrow with my boots and one axe. Also has to be easily accessible for me on public transport/push bike coming from lancaster. NE ridge on ill bell likely to be holding snow-icey stuff anyone know? any info much appreciated. Cheers

In reply to droberts:

Headed up brown cove this morning before sun up. First time out in winter. did easy gully and parallel gullys rib. Turf was rock hard. Shame it wasnt as full of snow as earlier in the week but its great fun.

Nipped up to helvellyn before we came down and it looks to have held more snow on the red tarn side although the cornices are showing sign of cracking and seperation.

In reply to stuart58:

After looking in guide team who I thought were on stepped ridge were actually on Parallel Gully Rib

In reply to somethingelse:

There is lots of snow on high street but little on ill bell and kentmere pike, just whats left after the sun stripped it on saturday. Heading to great end tomo

In reply to droberts:

Nipped up one of the easy gullies on the left of Brown Cove Crags this afternoon.

Bomber neve all the way up. Turf well frozen. Most the the rock had only the lightest dusting of hoar on today. More of a day for easy gullies than harder mixed routes. It looks like the weekends mini thaw and the re-freeze of the last two days has really help things along. There's a really solid base of snow in places at the moment.

Here are a few photos showing conditions today:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.418617901540954.92978.258764527526...

In reply to droberts: thanks for the info guys, much appreciated.

In reply to Alex Willey: think to guys were in front of me up that gully. You've taken a nice action shot of me! In for the album!

In reply to droberts:
Went up to Great End tonight for a night ascent of Central Gully. Grains Gill was pretty hard going in the upper third with iced rocks and frozen puddles, manageble with walking poles but kept cramps on for coming down this section. The snow/ice in the gully was squeeky plastic neve with perfect placements every time and all the turf was solid but we never needed to use any. I don't think my mate or I had to swing a placement twice the whole way. There is some slightly spoiling steps up the middle of the easy sections but the neve was so good it was simply a matter of front pointing a foot or so away from the steps to get maximum enjoyment from this classic route. The icey step at the ampetheatre hasn't fully formed yet and it looks to have been hacked a bit but for the right hand original finish to the gully the extreme right hand side of the icey step holds enough ice and its simply a matter of hooking your way up, no need to swing the axes so please don't - give it room to fully form! The exit was somewhere like 75 deg in angle and the snow on the summit is frozen hard so not much chance to have a cornice forming but obviously make your own judgement. It was wonderfull to have to mountain to ourselves on this very dark moonless night and the stars were awesome and venus was burning brightly. No shaggy dog stories (see other thread) but we did pass a number of folk coming down as we were going up about 5/6 ish. One party had what looked to be a youngish german shep who looked to be enjoying every minute of the outing, he got a pat on the head, can't resist a german shep since growing up with one!
Great night out, hope it lasts the next few days for everyone, seems the key is to go high :-D

In reply to blanchie14c:

Hi - we met you as you were on the way up. Hope you enjoyed the gully. Our dog is actually a (female) Akita / Shepherd cross who absolutely loves the snow and cold weather.

Speaking of animal welfare issues, we have often have to prevent Suki from being "rescued" by well-meaners passers-by, even when she's only been tied up outside a cafe for a few minutes! In this country it seems as though we sometimes have our concern for animals a bit out of proportion - like having a FB page for them for example...

http://www.facebook.com/suki.metcalfe

Peter

In reply to Peter Metcalfe:
Ha! Jus gotta love a dog with its own facebook page
We had a great night cheers, back at the car for 23.20. Mark won the 'falling on your arse on the icey path' comp with an impressive score of 5 - 2

In reply to blanchie14c:

Blea Tarn anyone?

In reply to nightmonkeyuk:
I meant conditions wise...

In reply to nightmonkeyuk: I would imagine it would be decent. I went for a run up rough crag to high st yesterday. the snow was mostly frozen very solid and plenty of ice on the path. turf should be mostly frozen.

In reply to droberts:

Out on great end today, bomber conditions, awesome day, beautiful. Did central gully left/middle. Good ice and excellent placements, the right hand didnt look so good and had lots of turf showing. Window gully was also climbed and apparently was good fun, as was the left finish and south east gully

In reply to droberts: Without meaning to hijack, can someone recomend any easy grade 1 stuff to go and have a play on? Not been out in a while and fancy a solo day out! Im trying to memory map a route but too many choices!

In reply to happy_c: custs gully on great end is in great nick, apparently the stuff over dollywagon way is looking a bit soft.

Sure striding edge would be good too.

In reply to peas65: Was just looking at custs gully haha figured if we have time could look at central too if its fit, cheers for the suggestion

went up custs the other day. theres a chockstone which you have to crawl under with your ruck sack off. but otherwise its fine if your after an easy romp (our dogs managed it but thats a whole other thread/story)
central right is tricky in the middle as its not fully formed.

In reply to droberts: a mate reports that scrubby crag was in awesome nick today

In reply to happy_c:
You could do half of Central. It is only 1 or 2 up to the basin. Even a dog can get up there.

In reply to Ross McGibbon: You assuming im more capable than a dog ......... Sounds like great end has enough to keep us busy though , not too much of a walk in either

In reply to jon59:

Was his the ascent of Tongue and Groove referred to in the logbook? I may be way off the mark here so apologies if I am, but if it was this ascent then this route being in good condition does not mean that scrubby crag as a whole, (including the steeper mixed routes,) were in awesome nick. Do you know what the routes on the main face of the crag looked like?

In reply to droberts: Any info on Pavey Arc, specifically Jacks Rake?

Imagine the thaw and rain predicted for tomorrow will change things and make for a wet weekend (again!) anyway

In reply to: I was on my lonesome today so decided on Red Tarn side of Helvelyn, ended up doing No1 Gully. Very pleasant climbing, not much snow in the crux section but turf good and ice where you needed it. I suspect it'll all be gone tomorrow and certainly by the weekend...

Ian.

In reply to Exile: bit late now, but I did tongue and groove yesterday and there was another party on pendulum gully. Both lines were complete and the turf well frozen. As you'd expect,Scrubby itself was not in winter condition. Nethermost gully today was brilliant. Not too banked out with bomber neve.

In reply to MR1969:

Thanks, that's what I suspected. Glad you had a couple of good days with very few others around I suspect.

In reply to droberts:

Went into Blea Water today to attempt Blea Water Gill. Bottom pitch was running with water and only had thin patchy ice so bypassed it. Sections of half reasonable ice over some of the the short walls/steps mostly soggy fragile ice. Main pitch by dihedral was in and took 2 short screws but water was starting to run underneath the ice. Ran out of time so bailed out after the crux pitch, and looking higher up towards the top of the gully the ice was pretty sparse and thin. Doubt if it will survive the w/e thaw. Birketts gully appeared to have a fair amount of snow to half height but not much in the top pitch. Again only v thin ice in the climbs to the left of BW gully.

I went to Brown Cove Crags yesterday, the gullies have snow but the crags are a bit lacking.
images at
www.paulhorsmanphotographer.blogspot.co.uk

In reply to droberts:
Has today's thaw left ridges bare? Or am I likely to need spikes?

Any one help?
Zac

In reply to Zac: http://www.lakedistrictweatherline.co.uk/ looks like the higher stuff may still be ok. Only one sure way to find out though i'm afraid !

In reply to Zac:
It doesn't look to have been as cold as forecast and the rain has possibly been falling as snow (it certainly has in Wales where it was due to be slightly warmer).

In reply to droberts:

It's fallin as snow from about 5-600m at the moment.

In reply to Wesley Orvis: 3 degrees and wet in keswick this evening so likely to be new wet snow high up, there was snow at 500m ish today when the clag allowed you to see it. I believe it's forecast to warm up though....

In reply to droberts: Lakes winter conditions update: http://www.facebook.com/AdventureToday1?ref=hl

Not looking good!

In reply to droberts:

Anyone been out this week, out running today and it looked as though there was quite a bit of stuff that survived the thaw round great end etc. So has anyone been climbing?

In reply to peas65: Bullet hard neve on the north side of coniston Old Man today requiring crampons + a thin film of verglas on the higher rocks. Both Scafell area and Helvellyn looked plastered so would assume that gullies are looking pretty good at present. Best weather today was in the west, walking mostly in glorious winter sun and hardly any wind. It almost felt warm.
However rain forcast for later tomorrow.....

Any early predictions for this saturday?

In reply to danredcar: in the helvellyn area, thanks

In reply to danredcar: http://www.lakedistrictweatherline.co.uk/

Not worth the petrol then lol

Thinking of heading up after Christmas for a couple of days but judging by the last few wet days and the forecast I'm guessing nothing is in at the moment?

Has anyone been up recently to have a look?

Cheers (and merry Christmas)

Tom

In reply to thomaspomfrett:

Was up helvellyn yesterday, lots of wet snow above 700.

Weather looks to be staying warm over the next week aswell.

In reply to droberts:

The weather nows looks to be changing now. Aparantly going to get colder, with some snow.

In reply to xplorer: Nothing but rain in the Langdales/Coniston, certainly no winter climbing to be had. The rest of the Lake District looked similar to me, wet, and I can't see anything been "in"

Think this thread should be killed off and a new one started if we get a big freeze!!