/ The greatest sporting fraud
I we accept Lance Armstrong's guilt, this may be one of the greatest sporting frauds of all time both financially and in the number of people fooled.
But, what if this isn't the end of it? What is the next discovery that will trump Armstrong's fall from grace?
The discovery that the William's sisters are really men?
The Jamaican sprint team are running times I didn't think I'd see for another 1/4 to 1/2 a century. I really believe its all kosher but it's not out of the realms of possibility.
I thought athletics was relatively hot at catching cheats till the Balco scandal hit...so its possible.
I do think we've only just seen the start of betting fraud revelations in cricket... there is more to come
Calling Formula 1 a sport.
I can't believe Ondra is still managing to blag that he's human.
It's an interesting question why the same is not true of the men's events, where most records are more recent. It's unlikely that women have stopped taking drugs, whereas men still do and find a way round drug testing. So, the only conclusion is that it doesn't make so much difference in the men's events.
Interestingly I heard a sports scientist say on R4 recently that for 15 years cyclists have been turning unbelievable performances but in the last two years wattages and times for the major climbs have returned to merely beleivable. That gives me hope.
> one of the greatest sporting frauds of all time both financially and in the number of people fooled.
- that would be soccer and it's ongoing
As fascinating stories go, I'd like to nominate Donald Crowhurst's attempts to convince people back home that he was managing to sail round the world, when in actual fact he was losing his marbles somewhere far off the coast of Brazil.
The type of drugs used in the 70s and 80s had more effect on women. That isn't necessarily the case now with more sophisticated drugs, but I do think that athletics is reasonably clean these days.
The last of the East German records went at the Olympic (W 4x100m). They are creeping slowly towards Flo Jo's 10.49s, but I don't think anyone really doubts she was full of drugs. She wasn't the only one, but I am not going to get the thread deleted by naming names.
Certainly scores high when it comes to desperation and self delusion. Very sad tale.
Complete aside (but it does relate to your book thread), and I know it's not about climbing, but have you read A Voyage for Madmen by Peter Nicholls, about the 1968 round the world yacht race? If not, I'd recommend it.
I don't think we can doubt that Armstrong was an amazing athlete, but not everyone was cheating, just the ones making all the money. He robbed many great athletes of their livelihoods.
I have read a couple of accounts, one in Bonington's Quest for Adventure and one somewhere else, maybe Knox-Johnson's book. I will keep an eye out.
> I we accept Lance Armstrong's guilt, this may be one of the greatest sporting frauds of all time both financially and in the number of people fooled.
> But, what if this isn't the end of it? What is the next discovery that will trump Armstrong's fall from grace?
> The discovery that the William's sisters are really men?
That Mo realy is a robot sent back from the future to quash a future human uprising, silly droid he nearly gave the game away whilst adjusting his antenna
That jocky wilson wore a fat suit
Very sad, very moving.
>I hate all drugs cheats but consider this... if everybody was cheating yet Armstrong was still faster, surely that makes him a prodigious athlete?
I think the point is that some athletes respond better to drugs than others. (at least besides the point that Armstrong seems to have been operating on an industrial scale compared to others).
So the answer to your question, even if one granted the premise that in fact it was a level playing field where everyone was cheating equally, would be 'maybe; we don't know.'
I suspect the next thing will probably be the revelation that PED's have been widespread in football for some time.
anyone good enough to turn pro cyclist is going to be a damned good athlete. It wouldnt matter how many drugs etc i hit the tour de france would still be out of my league.
However with regards to the cheating.
a)not everyone was
b)you get different responses to drugs, people with lower red blood count would benefit most from drugs to boost it.
c)the level and professionalism of the drug taking varied. So its not a case of it being a balanced playing field.
> I don't think we can doubt that Armstrong was an amazing athlete, but not everyone was cheating, just the ones making all the money. He robbed many great athletes of their livelihoods.
He didn't rob any great athletes of their livelihoods any more than any winner robs a loser.
Though perhaps I'm wrong, and various pro cyclists have been living homeless and starving because they couldn't win the tour de france because lance was always in front.
We should always expect people to game the system if we can't adequately enforce the rules of the system.
I have to admit to being as outraged about this as I would with someone having covert plastic surgery winning a natural beauty contest. That is to say, I don't see what the big deal is. (Especially given the prevalence of performance enhancing drugs in climbing.)
> He didn't rob any great athletes of their livelihoods any more than any winner robs a loser.
If he cheated, which he did, he robbed them.
> Though perhaps I'm wrong, and various pro cyclists have been living homeless and starving because they couldn't win the tour de france because lance was always in front.
Not homeless and starving so OK, hmm.
It very sad that you don't see cheating as an issue.
I think it would be interesting to see what proportion of footballers are regularly abusing painkillers so they can train more frequently. It is supposed to be a major problem in American Football and basket ball.
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