/ messi, the greatest ever..?
he's looking an odds on certainty for a 4th consecutive world footballer of the year
is he the greatest footballer ever?
On balance I think yes.
Difficult to assess Messi on a level with players in English Prem. La Liga is really a two horse race...maybe 4-5 nowadays but the quality of the teams in bottom 3/4s of table is not great, therefore can we truely say he's best ever until he plays in Prem.
He's very, very, very good, dont get me wrong. But there is no chance he'd bag that many goals in the premiership.
Van Persie up there for me. And of course the greatest ever is Eric the King
too early to say, for me
i think he still needs to put in a defining performance at a world cup to be classed in the same bracket as pele, maradona, ronaldo (the tubby brazilian one) and zidane
if he does that in brazil in 2 years, and keeps playing like he is now until then, then i think the debate will be over...
For consistent brilliance over a number of years Messi is up there with anyone, it would be great to see him really shine at the next World Cup though, it might restore a little lustre to the event.
I think a rainy Wednesday in Stoke should be arranged. See if he can do it then.
The best I've ever seen, but I'm only 30.
But I also agree re La Liga.. its no coincidence that Ronaldo and Messi both score 50-60 goals a season at club level..
But these guys aren't pure goal scorers either which shows how good they are.
However neither have won a world cup.. until they lead their international teams to that and perform at the highest level I don't think they can be called best ever.
sorry, but that is nonsense. the bottom end of the EPL is cluttered with mediocrity and comedy defending is not exactly had to find. rooney's second goal yesterday was well taken, but he shouldnt have had that sort of space in the city penalty area. and that was the top two sides- one of whom has just been dumped out of the Champions league, without even a europa league consolation ticket.
whereas malaga have just topped their CL group. barca and real are a class apart, but the rest of the league arent exactly pub sides...
i think its entirely possible he'd score more goals if he was in the EPL- the lumbering trolls that pass for centre halves in the nether reaches of the league wouldn't get anywhere near him.
van persie is good- but on a level with pele and maradona? i don't think so....
anyhow, everyone knows the *real* test of a footballers mettle is the scottish lower leagues- if he can keep up these performances on pitches that resemble ploughed fields after heavy flooding, in sub zero temperatures, in front of 27 people, then, and only then, will he be the greatest...
Putting the bar at winning a world cup is pretty tricky for Ronaldo in much the same way that it was for George Best in his day.
Maradonna pretty well dragged Argentina to world cup victory by himself, and then repeated the feat with Napoli winning Serie A and the UEFA cup. In ocntrast Messi seems to disappear in the current Argentina squad.
You a Red by any chance?
Cantona couldn't even hold down a regular place in his National team ...Zidane, Platini, Fontaine are French players that leave Eric in the shade.
Van Persie would be lucky to make a list of the top 20 Dutch players.
If you look at the European results of the middle ranked Spanish Clubs in Europe I think you might see the quality in that league runs a little deeper than you stated, did you notice that Malaga finished top of their Champion's League group ahead of AC Milan? Things have shifted in the last 5 or 6 years, and the premiership is no longer the yardstick of European leagues, Ronaldo's move to Real Madrid was symbolic of the handover of power.
Which is all to say that Messi's feat is pretty impressive, and that yes, more than likely he is the best there has been. Technically he does things RVP can only dream about!
But anyway, I think Portugal have a good enough team to win a major tournament.. and they should have won one recently..
Nobody has ever been good enough to win a world cup on their own, so how is it possibly fair to judge an individual player by whether or not they have? Would you still insist on this if Messi was from San Marino?
great players are defined by their performances
pele scoring 2 in the WC final age 17, maradona dominating WC86, zidane scoring 2 in the final of WC98, ronaldo 4 years later- the greatest perform on the biggest stage, and make already good teams into world champions
given that messi is argentinian, its not like he's playing for a minor country with no chance of winning.
however, i think its unfair to judge in on this yet- argentina in 2010 had problems that were not of his making (their manager), he will be at his peak in 2014, on s american soil, it should be quite something to see...
He's no Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink.
But he has the supporting cast to win a world cup with argentina...
lol, presumably delivered in a dry northern accent... could this be the most scathing put down in football...?
and while were on the subject, what *has* he done on grit...?
yes- his performances at the WC06 were nearly superhuman- it was the closest i've seen to one person taking on an entire team singlehanded that i can remember (yes, there were another 10 french players on the pitch, but they didnt seem to add much...)
There's only one BEST there's ever been!!
These posters have obviously never seen Dennis McQuade play................
Zidane was absolute class. George Best would have a look-in too.
The greatest ever is of course Claudio Gentile (and yes, he single handedly kicked Italy to the ´82 title...).
I'd also add Van Basten as a great player whose career was cut tragically short.
> anyhow, everyone knows the *real* test of a footballers mettle is the scottish lower leagues- if he can keep up these performances on pitches that resemble ploughed fields after heavy flooding, in sub zero temperatures, in front of 27 people, then, and only then, will he be the greatest...
I'm sure there are several Sevconians that'll vouch for that...
I watched Maradona at his peak in 86, Plattini was probably a little past his best when I was old enough to taken proper notice, I am too young to have watched Pete, Best, Pushkas etc.
I have not doubt that Messi has done enough to join the greats, but judgement of the greatest will always be subjective based on an emotional response, for me it is Zidane.
Had to look that up... Urban dictionary to the rescue as usual...
> Difficult to assess Messi on a level with players in English Prem. La Liga is really a two horse race...maybe 4-5 nowadays but the quality of the teams in bottom 3/4s of table is not great, therefore can we truely say he's best ever until he plays in Prem.
PMSL. Even though it is a bit early for the friday joke!!!
> Maradonna pretty well dragged Argentina to world cup victory by himself, and then repeated the feat with Napoli winning Serie A and the UEFA cup. In ocntrast Messi seems to disappear in the current Argentina squad.
Messi has never managed a defining performance in international football, like Pele, Maradona, Zidane, Cruyff etc.
Also, he's a player of his generation, when skilful players are much more protected than in the past. Maradona, Pele, Best et al were subjected to horrendous treatment and still kept coming back for more. Messi has never had to cope with that, but I think in the past he would've been neutralised much more by dirty tactics.
> I watched Maradona at his peak in 86, Plattini was probably a little past his best when I was old enough to taken proper notice, I am too young to have watched Pete, Best,
Was he not in the Beatles...?
> Had to look that up... Urban dictionary to the rescue as usual...
The team formerly known as Rangers:-)
Bloody American predictive text. Don't you remember Pete, he was Pele's even better twin!
Did you write the entry then...?
I read peles autobiography. Difficult to believe in the current era where even pub league matches are probably filmed and put up on YouTube, but most of his goals were never filmed. I think if I had a time machine, that's one of the first things i'd do, go back and see him play....
He has to win a world cup first.....
First, I think we have to make it plain we're talking goal-scoring footballer, I doubt centre-half's will get much of a look-in.
Second, you can only really judge it on the time they played. As someone pointed out above Messi probably wouldn't be as successful if defenders were still allowed to kick him up in the air.
I think Maradonna would still be successful now, but Messi would probably not have been successful in the 80's.
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