/ underground PVC pipe repair

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goosebump - on 15 Jan 2013
Any plumbers or builders on here? Is there a good bodge solution?

Ive gone and stuck a pick axe through the (very shallow) 110mm plastic waste pipe, resulting in a hole/crack in the top, measuring about 15cm long. i was going to split and then fit a rubber coupling to repair it, but they are too short to cover the damage. Splicing a new bit of pipe and two straight couplings seems like a lot of faff (Im guessing there is little if any wriggle room for getting the push fittings in), I bet I break more pipe in teh process and it results in more potential places for leaks in future.

Is pipe repair tape worth a go? Or some kind of pipe saddle over the damage?

Whilst the pipe run is very shallow, its not in a heavy traffic area and will shortly have patio on top. Any help is appreciated!
alexcollins123 - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to goosebump: Excavate around the area, cut 500mm, replace the lot then small grade shingle underneath and shingle ontop, then continue patio building. Maybe cement underneath actually if its really shallow...
richyfenn on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to goosebump:

I'm not a plumber but what I'd do is, get two couplers and a bit of new pipe. Cut out the damaged section, slide the couplers one over each end of the exposed pipe. Cut a section of new pipe to fit in the widened gap and slide couplers over new section to complete the repair.

Its worth doing it right and the bits don't cost much, you don't want it leaking once the patio is down. You'll have to dig a bit around the damaged section so you can access it, but it'll be worth it.
goosebump - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to richyfenn:

That way there will be 4 additional places where the pipe could leak (either end of each coupler), as opposed to (kind of) none, at present. Its just got a bit of a skylight feature that needs fixing.

Im looking for a good bodge that avoids the need to cut the pipe if possible.....
Wallm0nkey - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to goosebump: Not something I'd do personally but if it's just a case of wanting to block the hole. You could get a section of the same pipe and cut a piece out to cover it? It will be the same profile so should just be a case of getting it clean and sealed down. Maybe plastic weld it if you wanted?
richyfenn on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to goosebump:
> (In reply to richyfenn)
>
> That way there will be 4 additional places where the pipe could leak
> Im looking for a good bodge that avoids the need to cut the pipe if possible.....

Yeah but using the bits designed for the job and never to leak should be better than wrapping gaffer tape over the hole ;-) But gaffer tape would probably work fine if the surface is cleaned and you can wrap it around the whole pipe tightly. I'd make sure there were plenty of layers and go out a few inches from the damaged section.

popebenedictus - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to goosebump:

Depends how bad it is.

You could just glass fibre it (if it's minor).
Paul Bowen - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to goosebump:

get yourself some of this

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbing/Consumables/Solvent+Weld+PVC+Cement+500ml/d20/sd2711/p44948

and hopefully a bit of similar pipe the orange underground stuff cut a ring wider than the damaged bit saw the ring so you can open it up plaster it in pvc glue an stick it around the damage.
Hopefully this is just an outside gutter drain not your main sewage flow.
Bung a shovel full of mortar over the top to finish then lay your patio
popebenedictus - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to popebenedictus:

or use a couple of these and a section of new pipe
http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/158943
pec on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to goosebump: You could try something like this
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Painting+Decorating/Fillers+Putty/Plumbers+Epoxy+Aqua+Repair+50g/d15...
Perhaps also encase it in concrete when you lay the patio. If the crack is on the upper surface of the pipe the waste flows along the bottom anyway.
I've never used this stuff so can't vouch for its quality.

Personally if I was going to the trouble of laying a patio I'd do the job properly though. Perhaps cheaper and easier than 2 straight couplings + 3m length of pipe when you only want 200mm or so might be to use one of these
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p45647

It can be adjusted to make a completely straight pipe which is about 400mm long so should be enough for your damaged bit. The 2 ribbed rings in the middle unscrew completely to make 3 separate parts. This should give you the wiggle room to get the ends on first and then slide in the middle bit and screw it up.

Apologies if this is obvious but if you've never used PVC couplings before lubricating the rubber seals with a bit of washing up liquid will make them a lot easier to fit.
ollieollie - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to goosebump: richy fenn is correct, couplers and new section! this won't leak as said its what its designed for(the proper method). as for a bodge you could follow the new peice cut to mask the crack method but then when you come to back fill surround the area in question with some concrete, this will hold the piece in place and support the cracked section of pipe ensuring it wont move and make the crack grow
ollieollie - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to goosebump: some interesting answers, just do it properly!! you wont have to dig up your nice new patio in the future then
mkean - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to goosebump:
I'd get a couple of couplers and a bit of new pipe as the faff of doing it properly compares well to the faff of re-doing the patio if you cock it up :-)

goosebump - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to mkean and all you others:

Aw buggerit I know you are all right. "patio" was me being a bit posh. Its gonna be a whole load of slate waste/gravelly stuff so not that hard to get back in there if necessary.
goosebump - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to pec:

Ah! Good knowledge on the adjustable bend, worth considering. Hadnt thought of that and might be easier. And yep, PVC pipe is no stranger. Im armed with silicon lube already :D
Jim C - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to goosebump: as it is on the topn, you could excavate all way around get some fibreglass and resin and put plenty of layers on, it matters not a jot if it is neat or not.

Mark the position in the unlikely case that it leaks
richparry - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to ollieollie:
> (In reply to goosebump) some interesting answers, just do it properly!! you wont have to dig up your nice new patio in the future then

Agreed. If you are going to repair it, do it properly. If you can't do the job, maybe you ought to get someone else to do it for you

Jim C - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to richparry: and you are sure that if you get a tradesman in he will do it 'properly' Not my experience, if I do it myself at least I know what has been done.

I am of the opinion that you either replace the whole length or do a strong repair all around the pipe without cutting into it.

I would never add a joint in a waste which has then actually extended the possible leak path to all around the pipe now and in two places.

n addition to that , at the moment it is only punctured in one place and. it is at the top of the pipe where it it is unlikely to leak even if the pipe fills up, and as it is a waste pipe that is unlikely unless it blocks.

Adding a joint will inevitably introduce somewhere for material to accumulate and possibly cause a blockage.

Only my opinion, I''m not a plumber, just based on my DIY experience.
ollieollie - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Jim C: what are you going on about?? if the system has a turn on it there is joints there and they don't leak so why should this joint leak?, are you saying the current system doesnt work? this is what these products are designed for. if for some reason the pipe moves there is a good chance the crack will grow if its just bodged, if you do it properley and use the correct products like those that have been used on hundreds of thousands(if not more)of houses/drainage systems you resolve the problem once and for all, if done correctly there won't be 'somewhere for material to accumulate'
Jim C - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to ollieollie: I bow to your superior expertise, I did say it was only my opinion, and I was a DIY'r not a plumber(or a builder ) I presume you are one or the other ?

That said, in this instance,as described by the OP , I would repair the hole at the top.

Interested to hear what the OP does?
ads.ukclimbing.com
goosebump - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Jim C:

Pecs suggestion of the adjustable bend gets my vote as the best in terms of ease x chances of DIY success.
The reason I am shying away from buying a length of pipe and two straight couplers is that I fitted our bathroom suite, and am aware of how feckin difficult getting two pushfit ends together in confined spaces can be sometimes, even with lovely squared off ends with chamfered edges and silicon lube. And thats with smaller pipes with significantly more flex/significantly less implications if I mess up!
Jim C - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to goosebump:
> (In reply to Jim C)
>
> Pecs suggestion of the adjustable bend gets my vote as the best in terms of ease x chances of DIY success.
> The reason I am shying away from buying a length of pipe and two straight couplers is that I fitted our bathroom suite, and am aware of how feckin difficult getting two pushfit ends together in confined spaces can be sometimes, even with lovely squared off ends with chamfered edges and silicon lube. And thats with smaller pipes with significantly more flex/significantly less implications if I mess up!

I hope it works out.
In my work I deal with pipe work, but it usually stainless and has radioactive stuff in it, so the safety case says we shy away from joints where at all possible, the welding and testing is expensive, but that apart every joint is a risk that you don't want if you don't need need to take it, so my preference of replacing the whole length of pipe is perhaps overkill in this instance, And the repair is deemed by the pro's as too far the other way.

gethin_allen on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to goosebump:
I'd botch it.
Drill out the ends of the crack to stop it spreading, remove anything protruding into the pipe to avoid issues if you ever need to rod the pipe, then solvent weld a new bit of pipe over the offending area. if you are really bothered you could jubilee clip the fix in place too.
I'm quite sure that building regs wouldn't allow you to place a pipe so shallow if it were new so I'd consider putting some sort of protection on the top to avoid the same problem in future.
mkean - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Jim C:
Problem with most of the botched repairs is that if you ever have to rod the thing you are likely to get snags. I'd use proper joins for this reason (probably replacing that whole section) as they won't catch when rodding. I'd replace a good length section of pipe then back fill with gravel and put in a concrete capping above if you have room.

Mike (If I ever see another drain rod it'll be too soon)

;-)
goosebump - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to gethin_allen:
Im certain building regs wouldnt allow it either. Its a function of the fact that the previous owners build the land up around the house (endless amounts of concrete) a good foot above the damp proof course. Weve dug the ground level down below the damp course, but the pipes will end up being no more than 8" deep for part of the run as a result. Any deeper and its bedrock in places anyway :-S
goosebump - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to mkean:

Hmmm, sounds like concrete on the top might be an idea for the shallow bit then....
Baron Weasel - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to goosebump: There is a solvent that you use for making connections to that sort of pipe and it basicall melts the plastic to bond it (like airfix cement) which might work depending on the size of the hole.

Quick search and there is a guy using some on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDLWHJPqviM

BW
vincentvega - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to goosebump:

Seen Gethins trick done plenty of times, and it works. Only do this if the puncture is on the top of the pipe and it has not split on the sides.
I would do it properly with a section of pipe and 2 slip or flexi collars.
You wont cause any more damage as you cut the damaged pipe out with a handsaw and you dont need any extra room as the collars are pushed completley on to the new section of pipe you would have cut, then once pipe is in place, slide the collars back over the joint.
Plastic pipes rarley fail if connected correctley, and the only difference in expense is 2 collars which you can get for less than a tenner.
It wouldnt even take half an hour.

HTH

Allan
goosebump - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to vincentvega:

it does help, thank you. Never heard of slip collars, but flexi collars are a tenner each where Ive seen them. But I bet it will take me more than half an hour :)
vincentvega - on 15 Jan 2013

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