/ Rabies

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Blizzard - on 05 Feb 2013
Are you aware of anyone that has contracted Rabies when travelling in Nepal or India. The vaccination is 180, thats not cheap, and I am deliberating the risk levels of being killed by it. lol
brokenbanjo - on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

Register as a bat volunteer with Natural England and get a free one... Not that I would have done any such thing.
Bobbsy - on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

There were definitely lots of feral dogs...probably worth it.
Cheese Monkey - on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard: I got bitten by a feral dog in India. Very happy to have had the vaccine beforehand!
Trangia - on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

It's ghastly death, why risk it even if the stats are low? Surely you value your life at more than 180?
TheDrunkenBakers - on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Trangia: I agree, what a strange thing to question for the sake of 180 or put differently 3 nights out on the town.

Put it this way, id rather invest 180 than have my brain and spinal cord infected with one of the most horrendous diseases known to man.
jonfun21 on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

Get it done, you still need follow up injections (it is not a vaccine) but it gives you longer to seek help....which in remotes countries can be priceless. If you miss the treatment window and it sets in there is no cure and its a horrible death.
mypyrex - on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard: My course of three cost 100 three years ago and, even at 180, compared with the likely overall cost of your trip it's a small price to pay. What price your health? As others have pointed out there are feral dogs out there and rabies is not a nice way to go.
ianstevens - on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
> (In reply to Trangia) I agree, what a strange thing to question for the sake of 180 or put differently 3 nights out on the town.
>
> Put it this way, id rather invest 180 than have my brain and spinal cord infected with one of the most horrendous diseases known to man.

Expensive nights out you have...
gneiss boots on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard: Echo all the points of those above about the thousands of feral dogs and a really horrible, untreatable death. I also recall some WHO stats that showed rabies killed more worldwide than snakebite which may put things into perspective.
Joe G - on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard: It was only after I got my jab that my travelling companion told me he wasn't forking out for it... "It'll be you tackling the stray dogs then Joe"... Nice!
Timmd on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

If you can find the money to travel, i'm guessing you can find 180 from *somewhere* for the rabies jab(s).

If you get bitten you'll be exceedingly glad you paid and had it done.
katherinec85 - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard

I got the vaccine before I went to Nepal - think it cost me 120, but that falls into insignificance when compared to contracting the disease.
Jimbo W on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

Mate, its not a nice way to go. I've seen the consequences first hand. Definitely get the vaccine. I would.
Sir Chasm - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard: No, I'm not aware of anyone who has contracted rabies when travelling in Nepal or India. So on that basis I think you'll be fine without the jab, spend the 180 on something more fun.
LastBoyScout on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

I've been pondering this exact question, as I'm off to Thailand and Cambodia in 2 weeks.

I've probably left it a little late, but if I'd had the spare cash a few weeks ago, I'd have had it done.

Having said that, I've got lots of friends that have been to lots of remote places, including where you're going, that haven't had it.
Radioactiveman - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

shit the bed , just read the wiki page about it. Horrible

I will donate a whole earth pound if you can find 179 other ppl you are sorted otherwise a nasty death awaits according to wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies
mypyrex - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard: Please, for goodness sake, find the money and have the jabs. It's such a small price to pay. Although I've only been to Nepal twice I've seen enough dogs out there and their very appearance s enough to make you suspect that they might be carriers. I know it might sound paranoid but I don't even touch animals if I'm in a known rabies area - see the map on the Wikipedia link. A lot of "holiday" destinations are in such areas.
mypyrex - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to gneiss boots:
> (In reply to Blizzard) untreatable death.
I thought most deaths were untreatable ;o)
andyb211 - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to mypyrex: You're slow today Santa!
ice.solo - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

ive spent years in the subcontinent and places with far worse dog problems such as mongolia and central asia, and never had the shot.

not saying thats smart tho...
seankenny - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Cheese Monkey:
> (In reply to Blizzard) I got bitten by a feral dog in India. Very happy to have had the vaccine beforehand!

+1

And we are talking about a soft-looking dog lolling outside a sweet shop in Delhi. Still well scary.
Al Evans on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard: Did anybody mention Japanese Encaphalytis, dread to think how much that costs, it was endemic in the Kathmandu valley first time I was sent to work there an the company, made and paid for every vaccine possible for endemic diseases. We had to go to the Liverpool Hospital of tropical diseases to get it done.
I would think if a check shows that rabies is around its well worth the stab.
Al Evans on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Al Evans: And I still got the shits, fortunately it did not manifest itself until we were safely back in our hotel in Kathmandu though.
Take a good supply of Imodium!
Blizzard - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Al Evans:

Japanese Encaphalytis is a nasty piece of work. The nurse mentioned it. With all my vaccines, they will end up costing more than my flight. I'm not a happy bunny
seankenny - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:
> With all my vaccines, they will end up costing more than my flight. I'm not a happy bunny

It's part of the cost of travelling to these places I'm afraid, you just have to factor it in. Trips invariably cost more than you expect them to!
Bruce Hooker - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

I never bothered with this jab, nor did those I was travelling with as it wasn't obligatory. It is not untreatable but the jab to cure you after the bite is very unpleasant apparently so the advice was always kill the animal that has bitten you, cut its head off and take it with you to the nearest hospital. That way they will test it to see if it was rabid and only give you the jab if it was.

Dogs can be a problem so do as the locals do, pick up a couple of large stones and don't hesitate to lob them at any dogs that approach - usually they shy off if they see you pick a stone up as they are not stupid.

Attitudes have changed a lot, I never even bothered with personal insurance, trusting to luck and the supposition that either an accident could be coped with or fatal, in which case what good would insurance do? We were all single though, no dependents to cover for.
jonfun21 on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

The thing that perhaps doesn't come across clearly here (you may be aware of this having spoken to doctor etc) is that the injections are buying you time, not immunity.

If you get bitten then you have a longer period to get help, determine if animal had rabies and then if required undertake a follow up course.

Once you are off the beaten track in Nepal or India getting to a hospital with the correct testing facilities and treatment can take a considerable amount of time.

There is a risk if you don't commence treatment in time that the disease has already spread to your CNS and then it might be curtains.
Pete Ford on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

Reading the NHS site re rabies, and having a nightmare while doing so, the last person to die in the UK after contracting rabies was in 2012, they were traveling in India.

Pete
jonfun21 on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

Good links here

http://www.masta-travel-health.com/disease/rabies

http://my.clevelandclinic.org/disorders/Rabies/hic_Rabies.aspx

At the bottom of this one it describes how the treatment varies if you have had the jabs before or not.
Andy Nisbet - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

I think it depends where you are going. If a mountaineering trip, then you won't see many dogs and I've never bothered on many trips.
Al Evans on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Andy Nisbet: Unfortunately thats a load of rubbish, there are loads of dogs encountered in villages on any trip in Asia, and there are a huge amount of feral dogs in Kathmandu.
Ava Adore - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

Am I right in thinking one can contract rabies from cats too?
Pinged - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

I probably wouldnt bother...but certainly not suggesting you dont have it.

Ive been to India, Loas, Vietnam, Cambodia etc and never had rabies jab or even botheed with malaria stuff. I roughed it too. I mean REALLY roughed it.

Stupid...I know...But i was woof woof woof ...I mean fine.
Jenny C on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to mypyrex:
> (In reply to Blizzard) .......I know it might sound paranoid but I don't even touch animals if I'm in a known rabies area - see the map on the Wikipedia link. A lot of "holiday" destinations are in such areas.

Yes like pretty much everywhere outside Australia, including much of mainland Europe.

In reply to jonfun21:
> (In reply to Blizzard)
>
> The thing that perhaps doesn't come across clearly here (you may be aware of this having spoken to doctor etc) is that the injections are buying you time, not immunity.
>
> If you get bitten then you have a longer period to get help, determine if animal had rabies and then if required undertake a follow up course.

Yes was chatting to my doctor about this the other week. basically if we were going somewhere remote and away from medical help (or working with animals)it's worth having, but if you can get to a hospital fairly quickly it's of very limited value.
ceri's - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Bruce Hooker: The problem with a rabid dog is it does not act normally, the disease makes it unusually aggressive therefore lobbing stones at a rabid dog could make it more likely to attack...
cb294 - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to jonfun21:
> (In reply to Blizzard)
>
> The thing that perhaps doesn't come across clearly here (you may be aware of this having spoken to doctor etc) is that the injections are buying you time, not immunity.


That depends on whether you get active or passive immunization.

CB
Bruce Hooker - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Ava Adore:
> (In reply to Blizzard)
>
> Am I right in thinking one can contract rabies from cats too?

Only if you bite them.
neilh - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

Yes. Person I knew had it when visiting Goa, India., a year ago. Walking along beach when bitten by dog, she had not had rabies jab.

If you have been to India before, you will understand that this can easily happen.

Interstingly my 16 year old duaghter is going to India on school trip in a weeks time.I have insisted whe has the jabs, and I am the only parent who has done this. There agian I am the only parent who has been to India before.

The vaccination was 120 for the 3 course one in manchester.
scorpia97 - on 06 Feb 2013

If the idea of 180 towards your life and future travels hasnt swayed you, what swayed me was that the travel insurance wouldn't cover the follow up jabs or hospital stay if you had not taken reasonable precautions against the disease, i.e. had the jab. As the cost of the jabs and blood transfusions can run in to thousands depending on how remote you are and how far you need to travel, I went for the jab, especially as the 5 year course of the jab might be proven to provide enough protection for life in the next few years anyway.
krikoman - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Ava Adore:
> (In reply to Blizzard)
>
> Am I right in thinking one can contract rabies from cats too?

What you can get rabies from a pussy!!!!
Kemics - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

I had the jab before going to Thailand. The other advantage is that if you do get bitten it means you have more time to get medical help AND less jabs when you do. I did get bitten by a stray/rabid(?)/manky dog and only had to have 2 jabs instead of 6 (I think)

Of course, I was doing really remote trips caving and was worried about bats.

Dauphin - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

Vaccinations more expensive than the cost of the flight - I'd do some shopping around. Is this with the G.P. or a travel health specialist company?

D
CarolineMc - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard: My rabies vaccine definitely didn't cost that much. Pretty sure it was 50, if not it was only a little bit more. That was with my local GP. You need to shop around, but as others have said, don't put the cost before your life. Co:
Tom V - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Ava Adore:


Bats- not cats- are the worst carrier. Then racoons. Then wild/feral dogs/coyotes/foxes.
But it seems like any mammals can carry it.
mypyrex - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Dauphin:
> (In reply to Blizzard)
>
> Vaccinations more expensive than the cost of the flight - I'd do some shopping around. Is this with the G.P. or a travel health specialist company?
>
> D

You can get some jabs on the NHS,although not Rabies.
ice.solo - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

i reckon ozzy would be the man for this discussion.
krikoman - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to CarolineMc:
> (In reply to Blizzard) My rabies vaccine definitely didn't cost that much. Pretty sure it was 50, if not it was only a little bit more. That was with my local GP. You need to shop around, but as others have said, don't put the cost before your life. Co:

they are around 50 but you need 3 over a period of a month do it's 150 for the full course
sargy - on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to cb294:
> (In reply to jonfun21)
> [...]
>
>
> That depends on whether you get active or passive immunization.
>
> CB

It's my understanding too that you are only buying time. AFAIK you still need to get some emergency jabs, but the vaccine gives you an extra 24hrs or so to get help. What is the active/passive immunisation?

To the OP- don't risk it! It's like car insurance. Hopefully we'll go through life not needing it, but come that day that we do.....
Timmd on 06 Feb 2013
In reply to sargy:

Plus it's Rabies!
Philip on 07 Feb 2013
According to the wikipedia page, rabies is worse than being bitten by a vampire or werewolf. Just pay the 180 and take a silver cross too.
Blizzard - on 07 Feb 2013
In reply to Philip:



Reading about these diseases Japanese encephalitis seems more lightly to be contracted than rabies, and its not a good way to go. When I was in Tibet I was chased by rabied dogs, never bitten by one. I didnt have any injections and was fine. I will have trekking poles with me as I will be doing a lot of trekking. I wont be afraid to kick or hit any mongrel that tries it on with me. If a dog is going for you, you cant ignore it, hopefully one good bash and it will run away. What worries me is Kathmandu and the time I spend prior to getting to the mountains. I'd think getting bitten by mosquitos is much more likely, is it mossie season in March/April?
I am not sure what to do as there is contradictory advice out there. Unsure I really want to spend 400 on jabs (my life isnt worth that much anyway.lol)
Have just learned that we have to pay for these due to govt cutbacks. Bloody Tories.lol
More-On - on 07 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:
> (In reply to Philip)
>
>
>
> hopefully one good bash and it will run away.

Once when on an archaeological survey in the mountains of eastern Turkey I was chased by three large dogs. No amount of stone throwing put them off and I had to escape to my 4x4. Even then they kept coming and tried to take chunks out of the tyres and bit a wing mirror off!

At that point I was glad I'd got the jabs (and a vehicle)...
seankenny - on 07 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:
> (In reply to Philip)
> I am not sure what to do as there is contradictory advice out there. Unsure I really want to spend 400 on jabs (my life isnt worth that much anyway.lol)

How long does it take you to earn 400?

Or, look at it another way. There's a massive roulette wheel with, say, 10,000 slots, all but one of which are black. If you land in the black, you get 400. If you land in the one red slot, you die a hideous painful death over many days. You playing?


> Have just learned that we have to pay for these due to govt cutbacks. Bloody Tories.lol

Not quite sure why the tax-payer should stump up for something for your fancy holiday!
mypyrex - on 07 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:
> (In reply to Philip)
>
>
>
> Reading about these diseases Japanese encephalitis seems more lightly to be contracted than rabies, and its not a good way to go. When I was in Tibet I was chased by rabied dogs, never bitten by one. I didnt have any injections and was fine. I will have trekking poles with me as I will be doing a lot of trekking. I wont be afraid to kick or hit any mongrel that tries it on with me. If a dog is going for you, you cant ignore it, hopefully one good bash and it will run away. What worries me is Kathmandu and the time I spend prior to getting to the mountains. I'd think getting bitten by mosquitos is much more likely, is it mossie season in March/April?
> I am not sure what to do as there is contradictory advice out there. Unsure I really want to spend 400 on jabs (my life isnt worth that much anyway.lol)
> Have just learned that we have to pay for these due to govt cutbacks. Bloody Tories.lol

On your head be it. I think you are taking a very stupid attitude towards your health. What guarantee have you that YOU would be able to fight off a rabid dog unscathed. I dout you'd stand much chance.

Don't blame the Tories for the cosr of injections either. I had mine done when Labour were still in and they cost me 100.

Don't be a t**t. If you can't afford the cost of the jabs then I would question whether you can afford the trip.

mypyrex - on 07 Feb 2013
In reply to seankenny:
> (In reply to Blizzard)

> Not quite sure why the tax-payer should stump up for something for your fancy holiday!
Agreed
Bruce Hooker - on 07 Feb 2013
In reply to seankenny:

> Not quite sure why the tax-payer should stump up for something for your fancy holiday!

They used to... you could say the same for treating cancer victims who smoke or drink, car accident victims who caused the accident etc. Either you believe in a health system that covers health risks or not.

Coming back to the subject, I'm not saying that you shouldn't have the jab but for a bunch of climbers you all seem a little bit risk adverse! The risks you'll take climbing in these far off lands, or riding the buses or trucks, drinking the water or eating the food are probably far higher than the risk of being bitten by a rabid dog... do you think all the locals are vaccinated?

Each to his own but to cover all risks in a trip to many parts of the planet would be absolutely prohibitive not to mention somewhat illogical, looking for adventure but refusing danger, somewhere along the line you must surely carry out a risk analysis and decide if "you're feeling lucky" or not?
seankenny - on 07 Feb 2013
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
>
> They used to... you could say the same for treating cancer victims who smoke or drink, car accident victims who caused the accident etc. Either you believe in a health system that covers health risks or not.

Oh come on Bruce, I'm more than happy for the health service to help people who have cancer, however it was caused, but here we're talking about what is essentially insurance for an extremely fancy holiday.

Full disclosure: I have had the rabies jabs, but my employer paid for it. Fwiw, it's one of the nastier jabs to get.


> Coming back to the subject, I'm not saying that you shouldn't have the jab but for a bunch of climbers you all seem a little bit risk adverse! The risks you'll take climbing in these far off lands, or riding the buses or trucks, drinking the water or eating the food are probably far higher than the risk of being bitten by a rabid dog... do you think all the locals are vaccinated?

Of course not, but having access to improved medical facilities is one of the advantages of living in a rich country. Agreed that the risks of road travel in particular are higher than getting rabies, but that's very hard to prevent, whereas for a pretty small cost you can radically reduce the risk of dying.

> Each to his own but to cover all risks in a trip to many parts of the planet would be absolutely prohibitive not to mention somewhat illogical, looking for adventure but refusing danger, somewhere along the line you must surely carry out a risk analysis and decide if "you're feeling lucky" or not?

The chances of getting bitten by a rabid dog are fairly low, but if it happens, you're in serious danger. Pay a frankly small amount of money and you've pretty much annulled that risk. I'm fine with taking risks, but this seems a fairly senseless one to me.


Timmd on 07 Feb 2013
In reply to Bruce Hooker:It perhaps is a tad illogical to go climbing and worry about other risks, but it's subjective in the end, and we go under the illusion we can control the climbing/trekking risks, where possibly groups of rabid dogs are a risk less easy to quantify.

Also, plus 1 for what seankenny posted.
Bruce Hooker - on 07 Feb 2013
In reply to Timmd:

I don't see how you can control the risks of seracs falling on your head or inhaling shit laden dust in the sort of places where rabies is rampant... as for road accidents you can't walk all the way. Every time I've been out of Europe I've had the shits for fair part of the time and came back from Pakistan with hepatitis... No amounts of vaccinations would have helped. Even if you chlorinate and filter all your water and refuse to eat local food, probably insulting your hosts in the process, you can't avoid breathing dust, and dust is to a large extent dried feces... If you don't want risks then perhaps staying at home would be best?

PS. None of these remarks apply to someone heading East to study feral dogs or searching caves for fruit bats etc. For them I'd suggest having the jabs :-)
ads.ukclimbing.com
seankenny - on 07 Feb 2013
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
> I don't see how you can control the risks of seracs falling on your head or inhaling shit laden dust in the sort of places where rabies is rampant... as for road accidents you can't walk all the way. Every time I've been out of Europe I've had the shits for fair part of the time and came back from Pakistan with hepatitis... No amounts of vaccinations would have helped. Even if you chlorinate and filter all your water and refuse to eat local food, probably insulting your hosts in the process, you can't avoid breathing dust, and dust is to a large extent dried feces... If you don't want risks then perhaps staying at home would be best?

To which I reply, so what? I lost a stone in a week on my last trip to Afghanistan, I've had the shits more times than I care to remember (very good for sports climbing on your return in my experience), and so on and so forth. But they are simply not comparable risks! Only car travel comes close, and as I said, there's not much you can do about that.


Bruce Hooker - on 07 Feb 2013
In reply to seankenny:

There are loads of tropical and other exotic diseases which are as nasty as rabies - at least with rabies you know you may have it and can get it dealt with - vaccination doesn't prevent you contracting it, just slows it down a bit. In S America there's one which comes from some creatures that drop down from the thatched roofs on you during the night and burrow in... you don't know you've got it until years later. In water there are similar nasties... as you say so what? No one forces you to go but if you want Disney Land go to Disney Land.
neilh - on 07 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

By the way Nomad do them for 90 and its cheaper if you go outside main hours,so worth shopping around....
Blizzard - on 07 Feb 2013
In reply to mypyrex:
> (In reply to Blizzard)
> [...]
>
> On your head be it.

Absolutely right. Its my choice, the last time I was in Tibet I did come across rabid dogs, didnt get bitten, wasnt aware of Rabies risk, so hadnt had the vaccine.
>
> Don't blame the Tories for the cosr of injections either.

I was joking


> Don't be a t**t. If you can't afford the cost of the jabs then I would question whether you can afford the trip.

I'm not sure I would classify Nepal as a fancy holiday! More like a place that makes me realise what a wonderful place the world is and be reminded how lucky we are to live in the UK.

At present I am unwaged, unemployed. Hence the reason I have time. Personally I dont think my life is worth a great deal. I dont contribute to society in any great way(unless my book gets published) Have sold shares to take advantage of what I call a trip of a lifetime, trekking in the Himalayas, wouldnt describe it as a jolly.

There is no need to be abusive. 400 is a lot of money to me. in percentage terms its about 25% of the total cost of the trip- thats a big chunk !

I am still considering what to do. I dont leave until mid march so still have time to come to a sensible decision. I am discussing things with another doc tommorrow. Incidentally I will be trekking with a Russian, whom hasnt had the jabs.

Thanks for caring. (at least I think thats what some of you are imparting) Part of me thinks the risk of contracting these diseases is low, I lived in Asia for more than two years, worst thing I got was the shits from the food, not from anything else.

If you dont hear from me again after March, you can assume I have copped it. lol

Interesting discussion tho, thanks to you all
JIB - on 07 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard: A close family friend died from rabies a few years ago. The friend was working in Bangladesh at the time.

Placing the cost of the vaccination now, against the costs of the air ticket to evacuate him back to the UK by air ambulance then, the funeral and other expenses associated with his subsequent death, I'd say that 180 is a bargain.
drunken monkey - on 07 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard: I've sussed it. If you see any ropey looking dugs, then feed your Russian mate to them and ruuuuunnnnnn!!

180 saved.
ice.solo - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

Wait till you see tibetan dogs.

Dont think lhasa apso, think mastif crossed with akita, abused as pups to hate even their owners. They defend against wolves.

Rather than stones, a beretta would be the better option.
Fair enough forgoing the shots, but i wouldnt count on defending yourself against angry dogs instead.
Blizzard - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to ice.solo:

I've had experience of Tibetan dogs. I spoke to a doc yesterday. Apparently 2 million cases of rabies world wide. That swung it for me, I paid for the shot.
Bruce Hooker - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to Blizzard:

Softy :-)

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