/ Funeral of Baroness Thatcher

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mypyrex - on 18 Apr 2013
Whatever ones thoughts about MT I doubt that many could have failed to be impressed by the manner in which yesterday's funeral was conducted. We do, in this country I believe, have a knack for conducting such ceremonies with an expertise that is the envy of many other countries.

In particular I was in awe of the bearer party led by the brothers Mott, finer military specimens would be hard to find anywhere. The whole bearer party conducted themselves magnificently.
Milesy - on 18 Apr 2013
Could you not have posted this in one of the other 10 threads?
mypyrex - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Milesy:
> Could you not have posted this in one of the other 10 threads?
I wanted to make a particular point, otherwise I suppose so.

ccmm on 18 Apr 2013 - 194.82.141.222 whois?
In reply to mypyrex:

England does that stuff really well I admit. Another reason to vote yes next autumn.

Vive la republique.
Frank4short - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:
> Whatever ones thoughts about MT I doubt that many could have failed to be impressed by the manner in which yesterday's funeral was conducted. We do, in this country I believe, have a knack for conducting such ceremonies with an expertise that is the envy of many other countries.

Or maybe it's just yourselves you're kidding and in reality no one else actually cares that much about how well such things are conducted. Other than of course the people who were waiting to see some sort of conflagration from the protesters.
Jon Stewart - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:

Not really my bag.

Pomp, formality, religiosity, etc makes me feel queezy. It's all about pretending things aren't as they really are. But yes, I suppose we are experts at that.
Mike Stretford - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Frank4short: We used to quite dignified but post Diana we've gone quite soppy. Any excuse to get the costumes out.
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Papillon: I always thought Wooten Basset (now royal) did a grand job in dignified behaviour.

They fly them home somehwere else now I believe, not sure where
mypyrex - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Craig Mc:
> (In reply to mypyrex)
>
> England does that stuff really well I admit. Another reason to vote yes next autumn.
>
> Vive la republique.

Well, you can stuff your republic(and fat Salmond) up yer sporran. :)

ccmm on 18 Apr 2013 - 194.82.141.222 whois?
In reply to mypyrex:

Nae room for wee Eck up there. Could maybe squeeze in Ruth Davidson but I doubt she would be keen.
tony on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Craig Mc:
> (In reply to mypyrex)
>
> England does that stuff really well I admit. Another reason to vote yes next autumn.
>
> Vive la republique.

Sadly there are no plans for a Scottish republic. We'd still be lumbered with the Royals whatever way the vote goes.
ccmm on 18 Apr 2013 - 194.82.141.222 whois?
In reply to tony:

All politics, mate. We can't change play unless we're in the game.

And it's a long game.
The New NickB - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:

In the words of a friend of mine, say what you like about the old witch, but she chose some good music.
robert_siddaway on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Bjartur í Sumarhús:

> They fly them home somehwere else now I believe, not sure where

Into Brize Norton, just outside Oxford, so not so far away. This used to be the original point of repatriation, but they switched to Wootton Bassett for a few years while they did some repairs, and now they went back.
Oliiver - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex: I thought the funeral was conducted in a fair, unbiased manner.
Trangia - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:

Apart from the clapping.

Pre Diana, clapping just "wasn't done" at a funeral. It's something which seems to have crept in over the last few decades. I remember both the late King's and Churchill's funerals when the crowd stood in respectful silence as the cortege passed.
mypyrex - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Trangia: Agreed. As I said, I think the heros were the bearer party; esp the Mott brothers. If they are the British Army, God help the enemy ;)
alastairmac - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex: It was an obscene waste of money and national credibility on somebody that didn't deserve it. Simply embarrassing.
mypyrex - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to alastairmac: You obviously have no national pride or feeling for somebody who restored Great Britain's reputation in the world and broke econimic stranglehold that the unions and the likes of Scargill had on the country.

Let us explode once and for all the falsehood that Mrs Thatcher was responsible for closing all of the pits.

The largest number of closures by far, 93 pits, were closed under Harold Wilson in the 60s. The next highest closure period took place under Jim Callaghan in the 70s.

Mrs Thatcher didn't take office until 1979 when 22 pits closed during her tenure in the 80s. Labour's closures far exceeded those of Mrs Thatcher.

Furthermore, the "Milk Snatch" was initiated under a Labour government. The Tories merely extended it.

Dauphin - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:

who cares, she was ginger and affected the condescending tones of a toff, thick as mince & loved and was loved by dictators & torturers. didn't even get the trains to run on time.

d
gribble - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:

I think the Goldthorpe funeral did indeed have a certain something.
doz generale - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:

Why start another thread? I'm getting a bit bored now of all this thatcher stuff. She's dead so lets all just move along

didn't watch her funeral but i can Imagine it was a typical over the top wank fest.
Jon Stewart - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to doz generale:
> (In reply to mypyrex)

> didn't watch her funeral but i can Imagine it was a typical over the top wank fest.

The BBC didn't show all the wanking.
alastairmac - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex: I was thinking more of her support for Apartheid, Pinochet and coup attempts by her son in Africa. Makes you proud eh! Move on.
mypyrex - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to alastairmac:
> (In reply to mypyrex) I was thinking more of her support for Apartheid, Pinochet and coup attempts by her son in Africa. Makes you proud eh! Move on.

IIRC she was opposed to sanctions against South Africa and not the dismantling of apartheid. Pinochet was no worse than many other dictators throughout the world. Mark Thatcher is an adult and, as such, old enough to be held responsible for his own actions. As it happens I don't particularly like him.

Doug on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Trangia:
> (In reply to alastairmac)
>
>
> You cretin. This thread is simply about whether or not it was a good funeral, that's all. Not an anylsis as to whether or not it was justified. There are plenty of other threads for you to air such views.

Doesn't stop his comment being considered correct by very many.

And although Britain does ceremonial events well, are we really any better than other countries ? July 14th on French TV looks pretty impressive (if you like that sort of thing)
Bruce Hooker - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:

> I doubt that many could have failed to be impressed by the manner in which yesterday's funeral was conducted... etc.

Sorry, I failed :-( didn't look at much though, just the 10 seconds or so on French telly news.

Are you suggesting that this is one of Britain's strong points? Hard to see how it could be commercialised, at 10 million pounds a shot the price could be a sticking point.
Trangia - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Doug:

Perfectly valid comments in the right forum. But hey ho the OP seems content to expand this thread to include countering them here, so I'll withdraw from the discussion.
Bruce Hooker - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:

> who restored Great Britain's reputation in the world and broke econimic stranglehold.... etc etc.

She didn't do much for our spellin though, did she?
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> (In reply to doz generale)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> The BBC didn't show all the wanking.

Not even on BBC3?
ads.ukclimbing.com
Darren Jackson - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

An honour guard of frantically tugging, tossing troopers would have certainly livened up the proceedings.
Trangia - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to alastairmac:

Much more polite than I was to you. My appologies
Oliiver - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Bruce Hooker: typical loathsome liberal. The name Bruce reminds me of some gay right activist in America.
Darren Jackson - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Oliiver:
> (In reply to Bruce Hooker)
>
> The name Bruce reminds me of some gay right activist in America.

Isn't it about time that you moved on and let the memory of him go?
alastairmac - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Trangia: No bother
Postmanpat on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Doug:
> (In reply to Trangia)
> [...]
>
> And although Britain does ceremonial events well, are we really any better than other countries ?
>
I think the Vatican's got it cracked; better costumes, both the soldiers and the chaps in dresses.
dissonance - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Bruce Hooker:

> Hard to see how it could be commercialised, at 10 million pounds a shot the price could be a sticking point.

plus profit. That said could go for "You cant take it with you so do the next best thing".
Might get a few takers. Perhaps throw in x years of the C of E saying prayers for the dead as well.
Dr.S at work - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
> (In reply to mypyrex)
>
> Are you suggesting that this is one of Britain's strong points? Hard to see how it could be commercialised, at 10 million pounds a shot the price could be a sticking point.

True for funerals, but I think the general royal pomp stuff is commercalised pretty well, the life guards etc are a classic london tourist thing. I think that the ceremonial staff in other rump monarchies I've wandered past have looked a bit weak in comparison - although I agree the french do a fine job.
mypyrex - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Dr.S at work:
> (In reply to Bruce Hooker)
> [...]
>
> although I agree the french do a fine job.
Especially when they march bckwards :0)

The New NickB - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Postmanpat:
> (In reply to Doug)
> [...]
> I think the Vatican's got it cracked; better costumes, both the soldiers and the chaps in dresses.

I don't know, I find the Swiss Guard abit Disney, these things need a good dollop of camp, but I think they cross the line.
icnoble on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex: I agree with everything you have said.
pec on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Dauphin:

> who cares, she was ginger and affected the condescending tones of a toff, thick as mince .....
>
Don't know how you like your mince but for a woman to get into Oxford in the 1940's in a traditionally male dominated subject like chemistry doesn't seem very thick to me. Or do you define thick as anyone who disagrees with your politics? If you judge the calibre of a person by the colour of their hair perhaps you.

Bruce Hooker - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Dr.S at work:

> although I agree the french do a fine job.

I don't know how to break this to you but the French did away with their monarchy a few years ago, rather radically... There's still the "Guardes Républicaines" who look smart in their polished breast plates riding along but otherwise it's all a bit limited, no "mangeurs de boeuf" or anything of the sort :-(
doz generale - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to The New NickB:
> (In reply to Postmanpat)
> [...]
>
> I don't know, I find the Swiss Guard abit Disney, these things need a good dollop of camp, but I think they cross the line.

Can't beet the greeks for camp
http://mrjam.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c00c753ef0148c80197f0970c-pi


John Rushby - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:

It was moving and dignified and worthy of a woman who right or wrong, had a massive influence on this forum.

Speaking of which, when CJD dies we have a funeral in place. We intend to fling her using a trebuchet into the North Sea at Mablethorpe (flowers by Hannah S, eulogy by Only a Hill) while the Dogging Choir of Great Britain sings "Only a Prawn in Whitby".

We have arranged for a fly past from the Model Aeroplane Club of Ingoldmells (junior section, non military ) and a beer and holistic wholemeal bunfest at the Spit and Bumhole. Attendees will be invited to fall silent and engage in a mass pondering while Dave H takes the photos.
Gudrun - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:

I would never knowingly watch something with that wretch in it,in fact when i see so much as a picture of that community destroying parasite who brought untold misery to millions of people(many people i knew),then i immediately feel extremely angry and must switch over before i kick the telly in.

Thatcherites make me sick.

dek - on 18 Apr 2013
In reply to Gudrun:
> (In reply to mypyrex)
> I would never knowingly watch something with that wretch in it,in fact when i see so much as a picture of that community destroying parasite who brought untold misery to millions of people(many people i knew),then i immediately feel extremely angry and must switch over before i kick the telly in.
>
> Thatcherites make me sick.
Aye, Right enough Mary Doll
That Ned Chavez, was a right evil basturd!
Mike Stretford - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:
> (In reply to alastairmac) You obviously have no national pride or feeling for somebody who restored Great Britain's reputation in the world and broke econimic stranglehold that the unions and the likes of Scargill had on the country.
>

and got inflation under control..... but at a massive cost. Soaring unemployment and interest rates, devastation of some communities which the country has never really recovered from. She could have done better, especially when you consider the North sea oil revenues she benefited from.

I'm luck to be from a town which lost its pits in the 60s. The government of the day did a lot to help replace the lost jobs.

Thatcher's legacy has been discussed in detail on other threads and it's clear that like most other PMs her record is pretty hit and miss. I really believe that like Harold Wilson she wanted to ensure the long term economic future of Britain, but like Wilson, she failed.

I see no reason why she should have had a quasi state funeral, it is not our tradition.
Mike Stretford - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex: Ps. If we are going to go in for that sort of thing, North Korea takes some beating.
JayPee630 - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Papillon:

Funny reading peoples "England does this so well" rubbish. Do you not think that every country thinks the same of its drivel?
JayPee630 - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Oliiver:

Do you know what a liberal even is, or are you just using it as a term of abuse for people who don't agree with you that you've picked up from your right wing friends?
Deviant - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Postmanpat:
> (In reply to Doug)
> [...]
> I think the Vatican's got it cracked; better costumes, both the soldiers and the chaps in dresses.

The Vatican must have the cutest army in the World !

Deviant - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Oliiver:
> (In reply to Bruce Hooker) typical loathsome liberal. The name Bruce reminds me of some gay right activist in America.



Nah, Bruce's are Aussi tossers swigging Fosters all day, unable to undrstand why their country is a cultural shit-hole.
mypyrex - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Gudrun: I shall dance on your grave. Communists make me sick.
Trangia - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Deviant:
> (In reply to Postmanpat)
> [...]
>
> The Vatican must have the cutest army in the World !

Nah! Not a patch on the Greeks

http://www.greece-greece.info/images/greek-presidential-guard.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSM4Cw_1V9E
or the Pakistanis and Indians changing guard at the border post

JayPee630 - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:


Ah yes, another ill-thought out and mis-understood term term of abuse - 'communist'.

I assume you actually mean totalitarian, which, considering the amount of idiotic needing your hand to be held questions you ask on here I'd have thought you might actually be up for a bit of authoritarian rule.
The New NickB - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to JayPee630:

No he means communist, I think he quite likes totalitarian.
The New NickB - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:
> (In reply to Gudrun) I shall dance on your grave. Communists make me sick.

Chances are she will win that battle. She has probably got 30 years on you and even Glasgow won't straighten those odds.
ice.solo - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:

wouldnt it be cool if she was embalmed then kept on display in a glass case like ho chi minh and lenin?
Mike Stretford - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo: it's a tad late for that.
Deviant - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to ice.solo:
> (In reply to mypyrex)
>
> wouldnt it be cool if she was embalmed then kept on display in a glass case like ho chi minh and lenin?

Sadly, the Lady was for burning.

It would have been a fantastic money-spinner and totally in line with Maggie's liberal views.

Cuthbert on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:

I agree with what you say apart from other countries being envious. I can't see any evidence that they are or that we do it "better". Everyone does stuff like this quite well.
ice.solo - on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Deviant:

ahh well. maybe they will do blair.
Rob Exile Ward on 19 Apr 2013
In reply to Saor Alba: The North Koreans can certainly put on a show, what with all that goose stepping and all
sphagnum - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:
> Whatever ones thoughts about MT I doubt that many could have failed to be impressed by the manner in which yesterday's funeral was conducted. We do, in this country I believe, have a knack for conducting such ceremonies with an expertise that is the envy of many other countries.
>
> In particular I was in awe of the bearer party led by the brothers Mott, finer military specimens would be hard to find anywhere. The whole bearer party conducted themselves magnificently.


Indeed one can not help but be impressed by the manner and expertise in which the country wastes such vast sums of money. I am sure many countries will strive to equal this.
sphagnum - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:
> (In reply to Craig Mc)
> [...]
>
> Well, you can stuff your republic(and fat Salmond) up yer sporran. :)

Oh dear old boy ! One appears not to be conducting oneself magnificently.
moac - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to sphagnum: I live in Australia and the verdict of many Aussies was that it was a great funeral. As to the cost, these things often bring in hidden revenues through tourism. People watch a great civic event like this and admire all the wonders of London including the magnificent St Pauls Cathedral and want to go and see it themselves. To people living outside the UK it's still one of the world's best places to visit and like Thatcher or not the 15 million spent on the funeral has made a great advert for tourism.
Bruce Hooker - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to moac:

So there's a vibrant Ozzie funeral tourism sector? Whoda thought it? :-)
Al Evans on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:
> (In reply to alastairmac) You obviously have no national pride or feeling for somebody who restored Great Britain's reputation in the world and broke econimic stranglehold that the unions and the likes of Scargill had on the country.

And changed it into the hold the bankers had over the country, I'd rather the poor have some control over their future than the banks be given the freedom to bring down the whole world economy
jon on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Al Evans:

Quite right Al. If we'd let a bunch of coal face workers and lefty unionists invest our money we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today.
Al Evans on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to jon: Hardly that Jon, but we wouldn't have the bastards that shaxged the country laughing all the way to their own banks!
Goucho on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to jon) Hardly that Jon, but we wouldn't have the bastards that shaxged the country laughing all the way to their own banks!

No Al, the Unions were so thick, that in the process of shagging the country, they didn't even make any money for themselves :-)

mypyrex - on 20 Apr 2013
Does anyone really think that Scargill, in instigating the strike for which IIRC there was no ballot, genuinely had the interests of the rank and file miners at heart rather than seeking a totally misguided political confrontation with the Conservative government?
Eric9Points - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:

It's funny how these threads just end up looping back to the same old subjects.

You do realise that there were millions of other people who had their dreams shattered by economic desolation as well as the miners?

Whatever, your memory of those grim years are only of peripheral interest to me.

Re the funeral, my telly was broken over the the whole period between her snuffing it and getting burnt so I didn't see anything.

Can someone tell me if they actually showed the doors of the furnace getting slammed shut, that's the only bit I'd have liked to have seen. Just to make sure you understand.
Eric9Points - on 20 Apr 2013
In reply to mypyrex:

Maybe this ceremonial stuff just appeals to those from the Southern part of our island. While we Scots can be persuaded to give just about anyone a good kicking if we're played a few songs by a pipe band we really don't as a a race get a hard on by that sort of flummery. By contrast I guess you could compare John Smith's funeral in Edinburgh, incredibly moving by dint of it being a normal funeral where thousands of people turned up spontaneously to pay their respects to John as he made his last journey home from his local church.

Certainly there was a rather thin turnout at the big TV screen in Edinburgh to see the back of her: https://witness.guardian.co.uk/assignment/516e3c1de4b049aa25e5e87b/278535

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Eric9Points:

We are not a race Eric

And as for flummery, last time looked the tattoo wad still held in Edinburgh. There is a portion of Scots society loves its rituals as much as the next nation....

Cheers

Gregor
MJ - on 21 Apr 2013
In reply to Eric9Points:


Certainly there was a rather thin turnout at the big TV screen in Edinburgh to see the back of her

Did Edinburgh actually show it on their big screen though: -

http://www.wotshappeninginedinburgh.co.uk/this-is-crazy-big-tv-switched-off-for-margaret-thatcher-fu...

Which begs the question, if true, where exactly did the Guardian get their image from...

(A couple of seconds in photoshop is my guess).
sphagnum - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to moac:
> (In reply to sphagnum) I live in Australia and the verdict of many Aussies was that it was a great funeral. As to the cost, these things often bring in hidden revenues through tourism. People watch a great civic event like this and admire all the wonders of London including the magnificent St Pauls Cathedral and want to go and see it themselves. To people living outside the UK it's still one of the world's best places to visit and like Thatcher or not the 15 million spent on the funeral has made a great advert for tourism.

Glad you err, enjoyed the funeral.

You may already know that public services in the UK are in meltdown due to the austerity cuts. This British paper published 23 things you could pay for with £10 million, quite fitting really:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2013/apr/16/margaret-thatcher-funeral-10-million

As for it being a great advert for tourism, well that is highly subjective and dependant on what news agency you follow.

Any increase in revenue from tourism in London is great but it will not be re-distributed proportionately to those who paid their tax to the state in the first instance.

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