/ worst beta you ever got?
Anyway, we laugh about it now but was very frustrated at the time. many expletives used, sun burn on the back of our legs, a touch of bloody knuckle syndrome and a tonne of sweat! But hey, it cant all go to plan. right?
so yeah, what's the worst beta you've ever been given?
I think my brother telling me the Mittellegi Ridge was no harder than Striding Edge. What i regretted most was his advice not to take any metalware other than carabiners, axes and crampons.
Three Pebble Slab is E0.
" Go on mate, you've done the hard bit"
"It's cam city up there"
"Yes I know"
"Why didn't you take any?"
"You told me not to take too much gear and watched me place my only big friend in the first break!"
"We'll you're not a pup any more and you kept your head"
I think one of the Roaches guidebooks used to say "small cams in the break at half height" for San Melas. It's the only protection on the route and very definitely requires large cams!
Brilliant, cheers for that.
Me: "What's like over the roof?"
Him: "There's a line of buckets up the wall"
Me: (fifteen seconds later) "I can only find some little nicks"
Him: "Oh yeah. They're only finger buckets"
When you get to the Porthole on Right wall - "have a look a couple of feet to your left and there's a bomber rock 7"
Him - Trust me mate you don't need any cams above 1.5.
Don't worry about the intermediate on the right you go straight for the left hand.
Should have gone for the on-sight!
''theres a bomber head jam near the top''
That's true, isn't it?
Loving some of the others.
'tis true, as you crimp up on matchstick edges at that point!
Personally I seem to recall being told that 'x' size cam required on the underside of Sloth, and I was wondering why it kept falling out. Said 'b*lls' and climbed on without the placement!
"The most obvious way is not the best way" when looking up at the three crack lines over the crux of The South Ridge Direct on Arran.
What makes a crack obvious again?
My partner and I wanted to climb Fine Jade on the Rectory and the North Face of Castleton Tower in the same day. Someone who is usually spot on with the beta sort of sandbagged us. He seems to think that we are these awesome climbers who can cruise up any 5.11 anywhere. Little did he know that wide hands is not my strong suit. TNF of Castleton starts with 150 feet of wide hands and he told us that we'd be fine with 3-4 blue camalots. "You guys will crush it, no problem." In reality, we could have used 6-8 and it crushed us!
> I think one of the Roaches guidebooks used to say "small cams in the break at half height" for San Melas. It's the only protection on the route and very definitely requires large cams!
I got sandbagged by this one - I stuffed a gold camalot (size 2?) at the back of the break in a very flared placement then proceeded to shit my pants up the top slab.
To be fair the correct description probably wouldn't have made any difference as this was my biggest cam anyway, but might not have gone for it with that knowledge before hand!
>TNF of Castleton starts with 150 feet of wide hands and he told us that we'd be fine with 3-4 blue camalots.
Blimey, how on earth did you fall for that?!
Gary Gibson once told us back in the 90's sometime that Llanymynech 'never got wet' so we decided to take a punt and drove their from Manchester one damp day. On the way we we wondering whether it stayed dry because (a) it was all overhanging or (b) was protected by a big roof.....neither as it turned out and it was gopping!
Sorry Gary but I've never quite forgiven you ;-)
It was 7a+...
"yeah mate it definately goes out left there i remember the move"
"are you sure!? its a bloody big move for 5a and theres a crimp above me which looks useful"
<after taking the inevitble fall, popping one of two bits of gear and gashing my thumb>
"...oh now i remember it goes straight up at that bit actually, there should be a crimp just above where you were"
"You carry way too much gear for grit, leave some behind".
The most I ever carry is 1 set nuts, 4 hexes, 7 cams and a few quickdraws, so I left out most of my cams. Stupid mistake to make, I had to climb past placements for pretty much every cam I left behind during that day.
6m grit routes seem a lot scarier when you have one small nut below half height, and the 3 cams you want are at home.
The first description of "Preposterous Tales" in the Pembroke guide, circa 1998. It said it was a two pitch HVS. We were HVS/E1 leaders and it took us seven hours! Mighty pleased it gets E2 5b now...
And the Pruess Route on the Tre Cima in the Dolomites. Lyndsay Griffin's guidebook said 2 hrs up (about 6 pitches of HVS) and two hrs to abseil down. I don't know anyone who climbs as fast as they abseil. It took us 6 hours and we got benighted. The last pitch was a 100 ft runout up loose shale covered ledges. Never been more scared in my life. Lyndsay, you're route times are shite.
For a start,the supposed vs and HS on the buttress left of the Unconks. Would be nice if guide writers actually went and checked the mid grade routes.These are the ones that beginners have accidents on.
Are these wide cracks?
Looking at the guidebook is it Cleft Wall Route 1 & 2?? If yes they are wide cracks.
"Paralysis is a great route, you can get a small cam in the break, it's not great, but you won't really need it...."
That would involve being able to reach the break to place the small cam!! :-)
> For a start,the supposed vs and HS on the buttress left of the Unconks. Would be nice if guide writers actually went and checked the mid grade routes.These are the ones that beginners have accidents on.
You really are a spectacularly ill-informed arse, aren't you?
I'm sure Offwidth or someone else involved in the really very good BMC guides will be along in a bit to be indignant about the dig at guidebook writers, but ignoring that ignorant gibberish, those routes are both perfectly fine at their respective grades.
I seem to remember you once sending me a baffling email through these forums insisting that Frankland's Green Crack was "deffo HVS". Perhaps you're just shit at grading awkward wide cracks?
PS - "Unconks"?
Did the English language wrong you in a past life?
- There is a brilliant 2 pitch route over to the right.
- Have you done it ?
We then climbed next to it, and I noticed from above that after the second bolt - all the bolts had been removed - thanks mate !
Sorry, VOM, but it may transpire that it's you who is the 'spectacularly ill-informed arse', because I've a hunch that this Paul Mitchell is the very one who has this stunning track record of first ascents to his name (I may be wrong):
I know full well who he is. Which makes it all the more incredible that he's so wrong.
What is you're obsession with the English language?
Haven't you anything better to do?
> What is you're obsession with the English language?
> Haven't you anything better to do?
I see what you've done there. Ha. Ha. Ha.
My memory of Hargreaves Original is that you can get on three very good smallish nuts (wires) just where you need them i.e. you can get by without any cams.
> so yeah, what's the worst beta you've ever been given?
The Haute Provence Rockfax.
Actually, I wasn't given it; I paid good money.
I didn't feel it was up to the very high standards set by other Rockfax guides I've used. Grades, stars seemed all over the place (maybe not enough routes actually checked?), background info not up to usual standards. It does the job ok, but I expect more from Rockfax. I got the impression it might have been a rush job; certainly not a labour of love.
Don't know about local guidebook. If Rockfax was based on it, then presumably no better?
Really cruel would be to lead Kaisergebirge Wall on the Grochan, and when your second gets to the crux, say "Now just lunge up for that jug..."
The Rockfax will certainly do the job adequately. Just that I kept getting sandbagged on my warm-ups!
Yes,I am misinformed about many things.
Indeed I am often a fool.Thing is,at least I am aware of that.
I still think Frankland's Green Crack is hvs.Not a lot easier than Unprintable.I have soloed both these routes in the wet.
Maybe that was because I am so misinformed.
Please do keep me up to date with your correct information....
When asked about Route X, a climber who'd just done it, said helpfully; "Oh yes. It's all there!"
Well, it wasn't all there and I failed miserably.
> Yes,I am misinformed about many things.
> Indeed I am often a fool.Thing is,at least I am aware of that.
> I still think Frankland's Green Crack is hvs.Not a lot easier than Unprintable.I have soloed both these routes in the wet.
Well done you. Sounds like you know how to have fun.
> Maybe that was because I am so misinformed.
> Please do keep me up to date with your correct information....
Maybe think twice about insinuating that the BMC guidebook writers are lazy buggers who can't be arsed to check anything and who are endangering beginners as a result. And learn how to grade low-grade wide cracks. One would have thought you'd have worked it out by now. You must have climbed a few in your time (probably solo in the rain in trainers from the sounds of things).
This is brilliant. I am assuming that this is two people deliberately trying to get a rise out of each other and you're not actually have a genuine argument. That would be ridiculous! Wouldn't it? Oh....
Your tone is so derogatory that one wonders whether you have some personal grudge against Paul Mitchell - if so, you are making a rather unsavoury spectacle of yourself.
You clearly hold Mr Mitchell in high regard for his past achievements. I don't see that they give him the right to be an arse for no reason, but perhaps we disagree on that.
A couple of years ago he sent me a weird series of emails insisting that Frankland's Green Crack was HVS (prompted by me happening to mention the route in passing on a thread somewhere, and quoting it's guidebook grade). I replied that I disagreed, but that grading was an I exact science and I respected his right to hold a different opinion. I then received several further emails in which he insisted that on sighting Syrett's Roof in the rain in his trainers meant that he knew what VS meant better than me. I was quite happy for us just to disagree, but he seemed to be on some weird crusade to force his opinion on me for no apparent reason.
It's true that without that context my initial response to his first post looks a bit harsh, but I stand by the sentiment. Having a go at guidebook writers, who for my money have done a damn fine job, and suggesting their alleged laziness is endangering beginners, on the basis that one thinks a couple of awkward routes are hard for the grade is a bit low.
Anyway, since he's subsequently started another thread about how Goliath's Groove is "not quite E1", he's obviously trolling. Or needs to steer clear of awkward cracks.
cool. my first thread to induce a wordy battle between two online arch enemies. I finally feel like I've made it!
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