UKC

Just wondering what peoples thoughts might be on this...

was approached today at a local-ish climbing wall by two new climbers asking about the harnesses they'd rented at the wall shop, because they were different from the ones they'd learned to use at a different wall.

they were single point harnesses where the belay loop is horizontal rather than vertical... and parallel to the waist strap.

I'd always thought these style of harnesses were for fast alpine moving together style mountaineering, rather than actual climbing... but now I'm wondering if that thought is correct.

i then realized pretty much everyone with rented gear had the same style of harness, i just hadn't noticed until then because we'd been over in the leading area and i guess most people leading have their own gear?

so just for my own curiosity is that style of harness normally used for climbing too? (i though the point was that the belay screw gate would be incorrectly orientated which is why they weren't used.

am i over thinking this?

In reply to rallymania:

Practically every wall uses them, as they're nice and simple and it isn't quite so easy to get "centre harnesses" with a regular belay loop anyway.

You just turn the belay device through 90 degrees compared with a normal one. Still works fine.

The only problem with them is that you seem to get a lot of novices who the first time they climb with a normal one they tie in through the belay loop. As this is more sub-optimal than dangerous, it's hardly a disaster.

Neil

In reply to Neil Williams:

thanks neil... but this is the first time I've seen lots of people using them that's why i was asking. and just to clarify... NONE of the walls I've ever been to have rented this style of harness (and i did rent from this place a few years ago when i was dumb enough to forget my own one) don't go very often as i have another venue much closer, we just fancied a change today.

In reply to rallymania:

I suppose it depends on the wall's preference. My local wall (Big Rock) does, so I think does the Pinnacle, and our Scout wall does as well. Can't for the life of me remember what Redint uses but I have a feeling they do too.

Neil

In reply to Neil Williams:

Redpoint, even...

Neil

In reply to rallymania:

They aren't primarily 'alpine' harnesses any more, the main market for these is as 'group' harnesses sold to Outdoor Centres as they are cheap, basic and fit a very wide range of waist sizes. DMM confuse the issue because 20+ years ago they named their version of this style of harness the 'Alpine'.


No you aren't. The harnesses work superbly for abseiling and for numerous other activities but they are useless for belaying. As you spotted, the 'belay loop' is orientated the wrong way and is also too high up.

They are a really poor choice as climbing wall rental harnesses, however I completely understand why climbing walls and outdoor pursuits companies (including ones I work for) use them. The main reason is cost - why buy a larger number of much more expensive 'two size' double buckle harnesses like the absolutely superb Mammut Ophir Rental when they can just buy cheap 'one sizes' group harnesses instead. There is at least one alternative 'one size' harness with a traditional belay loop in the DMM Brenin but unfortunately it is real pain to adjust to such an extent that this can outweigh the advantage of a proper belay loop in group use scenarios.

That said, I do think climbing walls renting out that style of harness (as opposed to just using them for things like kids parties and taster sessions) are setting a really poor example and should ideally invest in some better kit.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer: i work at a wall where these are used and also used two or three of them for climbing over the years. I don't entirely agree with your statement that they are useless for belaying. They are easy and simple to use and fit all types. The belay loop is easy to use as you only have one loop to put the rope through. As for belaying on many sit harnesses that have the vertical loop the belay plate always comes to the top of the loop any way and there isn't much distance between the horizontal type and vertical.

In reply to stuart58:
They're also miles better when you clip in the climber using a carabiner, which then orientates the way you would want it to. Cracking for groups of young(ish) children who just want to climb and don't need to learn how to tie in.