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I guess this applies for most areas. Alpine, rock as well but I am doing the CCC end of August ( the easier UTMB) and looking for foods to experiment with. Particularly the most weight efficient form of calories and energy. I have done a few ultras now and try to eat every 30 mins but seem to expend calories really very fast compare to people I run with and often need refueling otherwise I hit the wall and have to walk. I reserve quick bursts of energy like jelly babies and beans until the end when quick bursts matter. I have found eating this too early on when feeling low in an ultra often has negative effects. If anyone has any suggestions of how they eat on ultras and any form of purpose made products such as powerbar are better? I guess this applies to Alpinists as well and people who do long endurance cycling?
In reply to samsimpson:
Well very roughly each gramme of carbohydrate has 4Kcal as does each gramme of protein. Fat on the other hand comes in at around 9Kcal per gramme. So for weight efficiency you'd need something high fat. However the body isn't particularly good at absorbing pure fat so you need some of the carbs and proteins as well.
ALC
Well very roughly each gramme of carbohydrate has 4Kcal as does each gramme of protein. Fat on the other hand comes in at around 9Kcal per gramme. So for weight efficiency you'd need something high fat. However the body isn't particularly good at absorbing pure fat so you need some of the carbs and proteins as well.
ALC
In reply to samsimpson: At the CCC they give you the food.. so don't carry..
I think banana's.. I ran my 100k recently largely on them and sugar and some peanuts.
But flapjacks, rice pudding..
At the CC just stick with the fruit, get the salty soup, also get the flat coke but then the bread rolls.. but at the main food stops get a bowl of pasta.. and bang on loads of salt.
For the UTMB I carried a small bag which I'd scoop fruit into and then eat for the next few hours to the next CP.. seemed to work well..
I think banana's.. I ran my 100k recently largely on them and sugar and some peanuts.
But flapjacks, rice pudding..
At the CC just stick with the fruit, get the salty soup, also get the flat coke but then the bread rolls.. but at the main food stops get a bowl of pasta.. and bang on loads of salt.
For the UTMB I carried a small bag which I'd scoop fruit into and then eat for the next few hours to the next CP.. seemed to work well..
In reply to samsimpson:
Even the CCC is a long time on your feet, and it stops becoming about 'ideal' food and more about what you can stomach after 10-12 hours in the heat. I get sick of sweet stuff and gels after about 4-5 hours. I quite like peanut butter and jam sandwiches cut into pieces.
Boiled potatoes with a bit of salt on them are nice and I'm starting to experiment with them when you're sick of sweet stuff and want something savoury and mushy.
I've got a 60km ultra (hardly qualifies, I know) in a couple of weeks and very much using it as a test run for longer events. The biggest problem I find is that as you dehyrate, it gets harder to swallow dryer foods. I'm going to try a nutella, peanut butter and banana smoothie (homemade) towards the end - will be kept cool in an ice box as well so hoping its just what I need.
Good luck with CCC
Even the CCC is a long time on your feet, and it stops becoming about 'ideal' food and more about what you can stomach after 10-12 hours in the heat. I get sick of sweet stuff and gels after about 4-5 hours. I quite like peanut butter and jam sandwiches cut into pieces.
Boiled potatoes with a bit of salt on them are nice and I'm starting to experiment with them when you're sick of sweet stuff and want something savoury and mushy.
I've got a 60km ultra (hardly qualifies, I know) in a couple of weeks and very much using it as a test run for longer events. The biggest problem I find is that as you dehyrate, it gets harder to swallow dryer foods. I'm going to try a nutella, peanut butter and banana smoothie (homemade) towards the end - will be kept cool in an ice box as well so hoping its just what I need.
Good luck with CCC
In reply to yorkshireman: Its why its worth checking what the CCC stocks.. its 4 years since I did the UTMB, but you are fairly much dictated by what they stock. I think there was sandwiches though, and cheese and salami.
I've never understood why but cheese is meant to help with cramp..
At the end of the UTMB I was approaching death, 27.5 hours in.. I just grabbed a coffee and poured sugar into it.. then more coffee and drunk it, somehow it got me through to the end but I then sat at the end throwing my guts up for the next 30 minutes. Nothing seemed palatable then. I felt great for 27 hrs but think mentally nearing the end I switched off and my body just crashed..
I've never understood why but cheese is meant to help with cramp..
At the end of the UTMB I was approaching death, 27.5 hours in.. I just grabbed a coffee and poured sugar into it.. then more coffee and drunk it, somehow it got me through to the end but I then sat at the end throwing my guts up for the next 30 minutes. Nothing seemed palatable then. I felt great for 27 hrs but think mentally nearing the end I switched off and my body just crashed..
In reply to yorkshireman:
And yeah the CCC is often a good 20 hrs out... long enough to feel like death..
> (In reply to samsimpson)
>
> Even the CCC is a long time on your feet, and it stops becoming about 'ideal' food and more about what you can stomach after 10-12 hours in the heat. I get sick of sweet stuff and gels after about 4-5 hours. I quite like peanut butter and jam sandwiches cut into pieces.
>
> Boiled potatoes with a bit of salt on them are nice and I'm starting to experiment with them when you're sick of sweet stuff and want something savoury and mushy.
>
> I've got a 60km ultra (hardly qualifies, I know) in a couple of weeks and very much using it as a test run for longer events. The biggest problem I find is that as you dehyrate, it gets harder to swallow dryer foods. I'm going to try a nutella, peanut butter and banana smoothie (homemade) towards the end - will be kept cool in an ice box as well so hoping its just what I need.
>
> Good luck with CCC
>
> Even the CCC is a long time on your feet, and it stops becoming about 'ideal' food and more about what you can stomach after 10-12 hours in the heat. I get sick of sweet stuff and gels after about 4-5 hours. I quite like peanut butter and jam sandwiches cut into pieces.
>
> Boiled potatoes with a bit of salt on them are nice and I'm starting to experiment with them when you're sick of sweet stuff and want something savoury and mushy.
>
> I've got a 60km ultra (hardly qualifies, I know) in a couple of weeks and very much using it as a test run for longer events. The biggest problem I find is that as you dehyrate, it gets harder to swallow dryer foods. I'm going to try a nutella, peanut butter and banana smoothie (homemade) towards the end - will be kept cool in an ice box as well so hoping its just what I need.
>
> Good luck with CCC
And yeah the CCC is often a good 20 hrs out... long enough to feel like death..
In reply to IainRUK:
French races always have an 'interesting' selection of foods. I guess it depends on whether you have a support crew/drop bags or not - if they're allowed and you have one then you can obviously play it safe with food you really know works, and then top that up with the aid stations.
> (In reply to yorkshireman) Its why its worth checking what the CCC stocks.. its 4 years since I did the UTMB, but you are fairly much dictated by what they stock. I think there was sandwiches though, and cheese and salami.
French races always have an 'interesting' selection of foods. I guess it depends on whether you have a support crew/drop bags or not - if they're allowed and you have one then you can obviously play it safe with food you really know works, and then top that up with the aid stations.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Washed down with alcohol at 7Kcal/g?
I think I once read about a turn of the centrury German alpinist who carried alcohol and butter on his trips.
>
> ... Fat on the other hand comes in at around 9Kcal per gramme.
> ... Fat on the other hand comes in at around 9Kcal per gramme.
Washed down with alcohol at 7Kcal/g?
I think I once read about a turn of the centrury German alpinist who carried alcohol and butter on his trips.
In reply to samsimpson:
I just did the Welsh 3000s, only walking, but I was out for 19 hours. I found that granola bars (posh flapjacks that my wife had made, with nuts and seeds in them)worked well, together with bananas and lots of water.
When I finished, the stew I had made in advance that was waiting for us at the hostel was more than I could stomach. I couldn't bring myself to chew anything. A thick soup would have been great.
I just did the Welsh 3000s, only walking, but I was out for 19 hours. I found that granola bars (posh flapjacks that my wife had made, with nuts and seeds in them)worked well, together with bananas and lots of water.
When I finished, the stew I had made in advance that was waiting for us at the hostel was more than I could stomach. I couldn't bring myself to chew anything. A thick soup would have been great.
In reply to samsimpson:
I would have a look at the bars - I tried out energy bars in my most recent mountain marathon (that's only 6 hours though....) and found them:
a) easier to eat than cereal bars, which I had previously used.
b) the Cliff Bars were a bit easier to eat (and less sweet) than the SIS bars.
If you don't have to carry your own food, I would be looking here:
http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showthread.php?19280-Bob-Graham-food
> I guess this applies for most areas. Alpine, rock as well but I am doing the CCC end of August ( the easier UTMB) and looking for foods to experiment with. Particularly the most weight efficient form of calories and energy. I have done a few ultras now and try to eat every 30 mins but seem to expend calories really very fast compare to people I run with and often need refueling otherwise I hit the wall and have to walk. I reserve quick bursts of energy like jelly babies and beans until the end when quick bursts matter. I have found eating this too early on when feeling low in an ultra often has negative effects. If anyone has any suggestions of how they eat on ultras and any form of purpose made products such as powerbar are better? I guess this applies to Alpinists as well and people who do long endurance cycling?
I would have a look at the bars - I tried out energy bars in my most recent mountain marathon (that's only 6 hours though....) and found them:
a) easier to eat than cereal bars, which I had previously used.
b) the Cliff Bars were a bit easier to eat (and less sweet) than the SIS bars.
If you don't have to carry your own food, I would be looking here:
http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showthread.php?19280-Bob-Graham-food
In reply to Nutkey: But all these bars, whilst great, are fairly much redundant for the CCC et al as support is night on impossible.. its a huge drive for someone.. you can get gear dumped half way I think, but 20+ hours of food is a hell of a lot..
I think I started with 3 or 4 bars and put 3 or 4 in for half way.. but largely just ate at the rest stops.
I think I started with 3 or 4 bars and put 3 or 4 in for half way.. but largely just ate at the rest stops.
In reply to Nutkey: cheers for the tips there,. when i finished my fellsman, i had a chocolate cliff bar and found it really easy to eat!
In reply to IainRUK: Think for this i will just make sure I will see what is at the check points. I guess powerbar stuff is good for alpine stuff, you dont have checkpoints up there!
In reply to IainRUK:
>[...]
could be the amount of salt in cheese?
>[...]
> I've never understood why but cheese is meant to help with cramp..
>
>[...]>
could be the amount of salt in cheese?
In reply to IainRUK:
Is this really true? Cramp is my biggest limiting factor these days. Any other tips apart from hydration, magnesiun, potassium, stretching, massaging......?
> I've never understood why but cheese is meant to help with cramp..
Is this really true? Cramp is my biggest limiting factor these days. Any other tips apart from hydration, magnesiun, potassium, stretching, massaging......?
In reply to 999thAndy: A well known and record breaking ultra runner, I think it was Don Ritchie, used to swear by Newcastle Brown, he had a bottle at all the feed stations!
In reply to Robert Durran: Salt.. if you see a tub, common in european races, just pour it in a cup and swallow it. I rarely get cramps despite the heat.
I think banana's and salty water.
I think banana's and salty water.
In reply to Robert Durran: And don't wear a buff on your heard.. I see this so much now. You are trapping heat. People wear buffs in winter as a thin hat, because it traps heat, so why do it in summer..
In reply to IainRUK: It seems all buffs are not the same
http://www.buffshop.co.uk/acatalog/Summer_Buff.html
http://www.buffshop.co.uk/acatalog/Summer_Buff.html
In reply to Bob kate bob: I still think its a layer.. you'd be cooler letting the sweat evaporate away.. its how we cool. Any layer is still trapping sweat and stopping cooling.
In reply to IainRUK:
I try to tell the officers this, but they still won't let me run in the buff
> (In reply to Bob kate bob) I still think its a layer.. you'd be cooler letting the sweat evaporate away.. its how we cool. Any layer is still trapping sweat and stopping cooling.
I try to tell the officers this, but they still won't let me run in the buff
In reply to IainRUK:
There's nothing like a buff soaked in a cool stream or waterfall, then put on your head to cool you down.
As a hat its a double layer, but you can make it single layer too which makes a big difference - I find that the sweat soaks in, keeps it wet, then the evaporation of the sweat cools your head.
There are exceptions of course though and the beauty of a buff is you can take it off and stash it using next to no space.
> (In reply to Bob kate bob) I still think its a layer.. you'd be cooler letting the sweat evaporate away.. its how we cool. Any layer is still trapping sweat and stopping cooling.
There's nothing like a buff soaked in a cool stream or waterfall, then put on your head to cool you down.
As a hat its a double layer, but you can make it single layer too which makes a big difference - I find that the sweat soaks in, keeps it wet, then the evaporation of the sweat cools your head.
There are exceptions of course though and the beauty of a buff is you can take it off and stash it using next to no space.
In reply to yorkshireman: For sure, but as soon as it heats up its trapping heat.. I was using a thin white hat in the UTMB.. dunk it in.. but as soon as it was no longer cool get it off..
In reply to IainRUK: I have started doing this only because it looks cool ( but really it doesnt) You are dead right, I was out in Snowdonia the other week felt too hot. I would only use one really for cold conditions from now on. I thought it would also act as a sweat band. I have started to get a bit of big hair so maybe for keeping it away. I am just going to have a hair cut.
In reply to samsimpson: yeah I think many use them as a head band.. just get a good old fashioned crew cut...
I struggle with an overly shaved head though as then I get too hot.. so No.2 or so is spot on..
I struggle with an overly shaved head though as then I get too hot.. so No.2 or so is spot on..
In reply to samsimpson:
Did the CCC six years ago, so things may have changed (for the better?), but the frequent food stops have to be seen / eaten to be believed. From what I remember.... bananas (cut into pieces), orange pieces (no peel, also cut into bits), bread, various cheeses and charcuterie, and probably more - all as standard. Plus soup / pasta at some stops, and big food tent at Champex (about half way round). Sponsored by the supermarkets, so no shortage of nice eats, and we got the impression that the villages on the route try to lay on something a bit special. We took a packet of powdered mash (the wife is allergic to wheat), and added hot water at the food stops, so it might be worth considering anything savoury and instant like this. Brilliant event, hope the weather's good....
Did the CCC six years ago, so things may have changed (for the better?), but the frequent food stops have to be seen / eaten to be believed. From what I remember.... bananas (cut into pieces), orange pieces (no peel, also cut into bits), bread, various cheeses and charcuterie, and probably more - all as standard. Plus soup / pasta at some stops, and big food tent at Champex (about half way round). Sponsored by the supermarkets, so no shortage of nice eats, and we got the impression that the villages on the route try to lay on something a bit special. We took a packet of powdered mash (the wife is allergic to wheat), and added hot water at the food stops, so it might be worth considering anything savoury and instant like this. Brilliant event, hope the weather's good....
In reply to samsimpson:I read an interview in last months Climb in which the author said chia seed had improved her performance, being inquisitive and also not very keen on herbals I thought I'd try it to take the piss and guess what it works! My stamina and even better my recovery times have improved significantly over the last four weeks, especially running.
In reply to Steve John B: this is definitely a dilemma i have all the time
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