UKC

Just wondering what people's experience of this is. I've been in Addis Ababa for the last 6 weeks and have lost over a stone, kind of hoping this might have a positive impact on my lead grade. Of course the fact that I have not even had the opportunity to climb a ladder in that time may offset any gains somewhat!
Still a few wall sessions should rekindle the fingers and if I can stay off the sausage rolls what kind of gains might be expected? To put things in context I've dropped from just over 16stone to just under 15, currently on sighting VS and 6a ish.
The other complicating factor may be the fact I've just become the adoptive father of a beautiful 12 month old Ethiopian boy, but think I'll still manage to get a fair few days on rock without compromising my paternal duties.

In reply to The Ivanator:

Congratulations with the adoption!

I have no idea how much the weight loss will help, but imagine a fair bit. What height are you? And what's a more accurate weight measurement before and after (say in kg)?

In reply to The Ivanator: Assuming your strength remains the same, tt'll make things roughly 1/16 easier I would guess...

In reply to The Ivanator:

It is your parental duty to take him climbing from that age upwards

I've gone from 14 1/2 stone to 12 stone this year but only gone up from 6a to 6a+ grade wise

In reply to The Ivanator:

Losing weight in order to climb harder grades is a total myth.The sad truth is you have to put the hours in at the wall or on the rock. You only need to look at John Dunne to confirm this Cranking hard whilst being a porker. Total respect to the man.

In reply to The Ivanator: Try the book 'racing weight' as recommended by Dave McLeod on his blog. As it says on the cover 'How to get lean for peak performance. Its so good someone stole my copy!

In reply to pollencajames:

It's a bit inaccurate to point to John Dunne. For one thing he was the exception (which is why people bring him up every time there is a debate on weight), and also I believe he lost weight specifically for his hard ascents (I don't have sources though I'm afraid so I could be wrong)

In my opinion losing weight definitely does make a difference, but this is a dangerous thing to consider as it can lead to eating disorders, obsessive weight loss, crashing + binging and so on. Personally I almost wish I never considered food as a factor rather than battling with my eating habits.

Anyhow, if you train hard, lose weight in a healthy way and eat enough calories for health and recovery, then Yes - weight loss does improve your climbing!

In reply to Daniel Heath:

One sport grade per 2kg according to this repeat dieter:

http://steviehaston.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/climbing-reality-by-stevie-moses...

Unless your weight loss is achieved through climbing specific training or you had a _lot_ of spare flab the simple relationship between weight and grade is much weaker than this.

In reply to pollencajames:

Consider me living proof of it not being a myth. Certainly not for everyone. And you'd have thought enough people have read McLeods explanation of Dunne to stop trotting him out as an example of how weight isn't important.

More complex answer is of course some shade of "it depends". If you aren't climbing anywhere near your physical limits and are held back by technique, mental issues or whatever then you might see little improvement. If you are pushing your physical limits then ultimately something like sport redpointing is massively dependent on power to weight ratio and so if you can lose weight in a way that improves that (ie healthily, noting Dan's comments and losing fat rather than muscle and whatever) then it certainly can help.

Consider me living proof that it is a myth - I lost > 10% of my body weight and put on 1/2 grade which I put down to buying a new pair of shoes! So the composite picture here is losing weight isn't a magic answer - "it depends".

In reply to pollencajames:

A TOTAL myth? Excellent news, the rest of my life begins at tea time.

In reply to duchessofmalfi:


Well obviously its not the only variable is it. You might just be very inconsistent, or have an irrational bias that doesn't really exist (I mean, it depends how you measure these things), or you may have lost muscle mass in that weight, or, as you yourself say (!), maybe its because you bought new shoes (and therefore bugger all to do with weight).

But to imply that losing unwanted weight can somehow impede your upwards progress is clearly at odds with basic physics.

In reply to duchessofmalfi:

Very true that it might not be the most significant factor.

The OP is currently climbing VS. I think this grade is really dependent upon body position/experience/confidence so weight is probably less significant.

However healthy weight loss is still a good idea at 15 stone - unless that's all muscle

In reply to Daniel Heath:

I was about 13.5 stone, a lot of gym muscle so not fat but not that useful either, lost almost a stone and put on a sports grade or so quite quickly.

In reply to The Ivanator: I've recently lost 10kg of fat (11kg total weight loss), over a period of 10 months. My bouldering grade has gone from V4 to V6/7. But this coencided moving to The Netherlands and having a gym with little leading so my lead grade has stayed about the same or even dropped a bit(6b/E1). Basically on lead, I now have longer to hold tight and worry about how far I am above my clip ; so as has has been said, I think it depends on what's limiting your climbing and how you gauge your improvement.
I plan on lossing another 6kg to get down to 11/12% body fat so hopefully my boulder grade will creep up a bit more and when I get back to leading the strength will help my head game and I'll be able to push on further.....

In reply to The Ivanator:

is this weight loss by fat stripping or weight loss by giardia?

nice one making your family. few things matter more than climbing, but parenting is one of them.

In reply to The Ivanator: HI

I would say that in a sport governed by strength to weight ratio loosing weight (to be at a optimum) is paramount. HOWEVER as has been mentioned there is a lot more to it than that, personally I think that you have to be a good/established climber to start with.

My experience in the last 12 months may be of interest. I have been living in Bolivia, guiding one treks and high mountains got me ridiculously fit CV wise and down to 12 stone from about 13 (Im 6'1) and my climbing grade improved however I only had limited easy sport (up to 7a) and some bouldering to go on. (probably rock climbed about the same frequency as in the UK)

What did improve was my was my endurance, I had a couple of projects, scary E2/E3 with crap/no gear and was happy hanging around on them all day, just no pump, no heaving a hefty lump on big holds.

Then I had a stint back in the UK where I was working on a building site and eating like a monster I got ridiculously strong (think a one man fridge lifting machine) I never checked my weight till the end of the 3 months although I knew I was getting bigger, I was 14.5 stone and lot of it was muscle. Interesting I was in london and only had access to a bouldering wall twice a week.

My grade actually went up bouldering wise - Flashing Font 6b+ and working 6c/6c+. what I did struggle with is endurance. I would burn out quickly. I went to N wales for the last week I was in the UK as I was instructing and Logging for my MIA and I could still walk up HVS/E1, just didn't like small holds!

Im now on a 2 month drop back to 12ish stone and aim to be 11&1/2st by September end as I go to Yosemite. From previous experience this WILL make a difference particularly to endurance. Interestingly the strength that I gained has not left as I get lighter in a particularly rapid way (which is not recommended)

Rob

So I would say if you are an established climber

In reply to The Ivanator: Thanks for all the considered replies. To fill in a little: I am 6ft tall and broadly built, was carrying some excess baggage, but by no means rolls of flab. Weight loss has mostly been through diet and lots of carrying a baby around the streets of Addis Ababa, did have a bout of traveller's tummy, but no Giardia or the like. Guess I've lost a little upper body strength, but most of the weight shifted was stuff that was not helping my climbing.
I am an established (if mediocre) climber, have on sighted E1and 6b, but regard VS as my solid on sighting grade. Usually climb 2/3 times a week in the UK, but have never really tried specific training to improve. Not looking for massive gains, just curious what the difference might be, it would be nice to get solid at my best on sight grades though.

In reply to The Ivanator: Congratulations on your little boy! Going to be hard work, but a lot of fun.

In reply to BusyLizzie & others: Thanks for the good wishes on becoming a Dad, it is an amazing experience, he is a beautiful and seems very good natured so far (but I have been reading the terrible twos thread with interest).
Been over 6 weeks out here now and longing to get our boy home, still waiting on the return of his settlement Visa. Despite joys of parenthood I've missed climbing massively and negotiations about alternate days out to pursue our independent interests are ongoing with my wife!
Would love it if in a few years our boy wanted to come climbing, but it is definitely not a Sport to push on anyone.

In reply to The Ivanator: Congratulations on child and weight loss. Losta stone and a half recently in preparation for climbing trip, but this was combined with some reasonably focused. Don't really feel weightloss was main contributor to subsequent improvement, but feeling leanish was certainly a positive factor. Good to feel like you are in good shape. Felt like the addition of press ups and shoulder presses a couple of times a week was also a psychological boos more trhan physical - felt good to be in shape.

Two weeks of wedding celebrations has left me not quite so sharp, but I'm back on it again...

In reply to The Ivanator: It may not make a difference to your technical grade, but weight loss will aid your climbing. Not having so much weight to carry up will make you more energy efficient and will equate to a strength gain (you won't be stronger but you'll have less weight to carry so it will appear that way). So I reckon you'll be able to do longer, more pumpy routes than you could before, even if they aren't technically harder. Get out and climb and let us know though

Regardless of climbing, loosing weight will be making a difference to your long-term health (unless it was because of giardia!).

In reply to The Ivanator:
I think that loosing weight benefits participants in any activity where gravity comes into force - whether that's climbing, running, cycling or whatever.
To illustrate the point, try climbing wearing a rucksack of equivalent weight to the amount you've lost.

In reply to The Ivanator:
Have you been doing any exercise at all in Addis? - pull ups, sit-ups, dips, running? If you have and have therefore kept muscle and lost fat your power / weight has improved. If you've lost muscle and fat together or more muscle than fat you will have stayed the same or got worse

In reply to The Ivanator:
going from about 16.5 to 14 stone made bugger all difference to me (well maybe a sport + grade or so) but going from about 14 to 13 I went from about F6a+/F6b to F6c.

PS I wasn't changing the amount I climbed and I was at a plateaux prior to the weigh loss.

In reply to The Ivanator:

Of course it makes a difference.

Name me a fat world cup climber/boulderer ?

For climbers operating at more mortal levels it's not often a decider, but it will improve your physical performance.

Dave Mac actually says it will have a bigger impact the more it is the factor that holds you back. If your mental game is good, you have good technique and tactics and you're fat, then losing fat will have a marked improvement. If you're slim and still scared, dangling footless all the time and don't have a clue how to work a route you will not see a vast improvement.

FYI i lost 10kg and went from outdoor 6a+ to 6c and V3 to V6.

In reply to pollencajames:

There's two things you've got wrong here.
I'm living proof that losing weight improves grades. This winter I hardly touched any rock between November and February. In that space of time I lost about 3/4 of a stone due to lots of cycling. The first time I went climbing in early Feb I was climbing harder than last October after a full summer climbing.

The other thing you got wrong.
Did you ever meet JD when he was climbing his hard routes? I've known him since he was a teenager on the Malham scene back in the 80's. All through his career doing hard routes he had an upper body like Arnold Schwarzenegger and legs like golf clubs.

E

In reply to Enty: I believe however that he also used to shed the weight dramatically when he was building up for a big route.

In reply to Enty:


The guidebook cover photo of him on Breach of the Peace tells a different story.

In reply to GridNorth:

Yep - that's what I meant.

E

In reply to shark:

I just wish my legs were as skinny as his - I might get up something hard

E

In reply to Enty:


Stop wishing and chuck your bike in a skip where it belongs

In reply to The Ivanator:

When I lost a stone and a half to 2 stone before my type 1 diabetes was diagnosed, climbing did get suddenly easier.

On the other hand Malcolm Smith is supposed to be climbing harder after going from the 90's typical skinny sport climbing body type, to the modern day well muscled and well honed beefier bouldering body type.

Top climbers were well skinny in the 90's, which seems to have changed a bit.

In reply to Timmd:

Indeed, there's something about these skinny legs and short shorts which is a tad unsettling

In reply to Daniel Heath:
youtube.com/watch?v=nn36AQbRKMA&

In reply to Timmd: you can be porky and boulder hard (all relative of course) I was impressed by how thin james mccaffie is, he dieted very hard for the big bang. Mcclure is also pretty thin. and Dave mac weighs less than he did as a teenager.

In reply to The Ivanator:

I've lost quite a bit of weight since I started climbing. I was about 14 stone. I'm at 11 stone 10 lbs now. Depressingly enough I could (just) second VS when I started and I lead VS about the moment. However I can second E1 these days. Yeah, it definitely makes things easier. However if it were all about weight we'd all loose weight and climb 9a.

In reply to The Ivanator: I fluctuate between 13 n alf stone to 14 and being lighter weight you feel better/ fitter and so think psychologically it helps when climbing.

In reply to The Ivanator:

Congratulations!

I doubt the weight loss will bump those grades up much but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Give it a go, see where you're at when the rustiness wears off.

jk

In reply to The Ivanator:

I would like to add that I stopped climbing at christmas feeling totally disheartened with climbing, spent the next 3/4 months dieting and running, went from 12 stone to 10 stone, size 14 to size 10 and decided to start climbing again.

It only took a couple of weeks, but I moved from struggling on 6a, to leading 6b+, I can now hold onto holds I couldnt before, I find one arm lock offs a lot easier now I have less weight to hold onto the wall and climbing is now much more fun now it's less difficult.

So yes, weight loss will help greatly, good luck and enjoy.