/ Porsche 911

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estivoautumnal - on 18 Jun 2013
Anyone on here got one? 5-10 year old.

A long shot I know, they're not too common but would be keen to hear from any owners how they are.

Yes I know I'd be better on a car forum but they tend to be full of enthusiasts who love their cars whatever.
andymac - on 18 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:
hope this isn`t a mid-life crisis?
craig h - on 18 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

I have a 12 year old Punto, has most of the features of a Porsche 911, gets me from A to B at a fraction of the cost and can live with some envious scroat running a key along its side :-)
argyle_dude - on 18 Jun 2013
In reply to craig h:
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)
>
> I have a 12 year old Punto, has most of the features of a Porsche 911, gets me from A to B at a fraction of the cost and can live with some envious scroat running a key along its side :-)

I have most the same features as Usian Bolt, we are probably about as evenly matched as a Punto and a Porsche in a race too!
A Mountain Journey - on 18 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal: Not got one, but did pop into the local Porsche dealer a while back to have a look at a Boxster. Build quality seemed top notch, with some well thought out features. However the performance wasn't what i was expecting from such a car, disappointing. Thankfully it meant i bought something more sensible.
Mooncat - on 18 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

On my 4th now, I got my first one after briefly having a 350z and it felt like an anachronism, once I got used to the handling quirks and learnt to drive it the right way it was fantastic, in terms of modern sports cars I wouldn't have anything else. Parts aren't hugely expensive, servicing can be expensive because there's lots of engine out stuff at higher mileages and I'd say to stay away from ceramic brakes, I've had sets on 2 of mine and they've both cracked, I got mine replaced by standard ones.

It's a great laugh destroying ferraris on track days, get one but unless it's just for track days or occasional fast runs stay away from the GT2's and 3's I found mine just too uncompromising.
estivoautumnal - on 18 Jun 2013
In reply to Mooncat:

Thanks for the info. I have a Boxter at the moment and this may sound silly but I need a couple of small seats for the dog and the natural progression is the 911. The Boxter is good but lacking in grunt.

estivoautumnal - on 18 Jun 2013
In reply to andymac:
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)
> hope this isn`t a mid-life crisis?

No, just an upgrade.

In reply to estivoautumnal:
> (In reply to Mooncat)
>
> Thanks for the info. I have a Boxter at the moment and this may sound silly but I need a couple of small seats for the dog and the natural progression is the 911. The Boxter is good but lacking in grunt.

And an "s"
In reply to estivoautumnal:
> but I need a couple of small seats for the dog and the natural progression is the 911.

I think it is what my friend has, it's a beautiful car and silly fun to go for a drive in. I've sat in the back seats and have to say an adult can't spend much time in there comfortably, but he took me and my two little 'uns for a ride in it the other week and my boys both reported the back seats were "super comfy". So if you're thinking of upgrading from a dog to kids, you'll be good up to at least age 9. ;)

As a climber you might be interested to know the Arcteryx Miura 50 crag pack fits absolutely perfectly in the front luggage compartment. I laughed at that as it seemed Arc must have sized it just for Porsche which maybe says something about the price of Arc packs!
The RigPig - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

I've always wanted a 911 but having driven a few now I can afford one I've been disappointed. I test drove a Nissan GTR the other week and that's where my money will be going, nothing else comes close for that price.
Steve John B - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to The RigPig: 76 grand for a Datsun? Yikes. Looks like the 911/GTR quandary isn't one I'll be facing anytime soon ;-)
bluebealach - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal: My son's got the 944!
TheDrunkenBakers - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal: Wrong choice.

Get an M3 or RS4. Just as quick, better handling, tonnes of space, cheaper parts and servicing.

Mike Highbury - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to bluebealach:
> (In reply to estivoautumnal) My son's got the 944!

He wants a modified 'strength through joy' car and not an funky Audi.

How do I do this? A 911 is the perfect climber's car. Room for a bouldering mat in the back and sacks everywhere else. Makes a reasonable speed and easy to drive when exhausted.

Downside is how to be even remotely honest about how much petrol you have used when sharing out the fuel cost.

As they get older you are looking at well over 2,000 in servicing and parts every year. So buy on condition, as they say.

Also you are not allowed to get an automatic diesel Panamera, nor one with park assist.
EeeByGum - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal: It's a Porche. What more is there to say? Well built. Great to drive. Hugely expensive to run. Nuf said!
Mike Highbury - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
> (In reply to estivoautumnal) Wrong choice.
>
> Get an M3 or RS4. Just as quick, better handling, tonnes of space, cheaper parts and servicing.

RS4 better handling? They are truly horrible. Have you driven one? You know nothing!
TheDrunkenBakers - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to Mike Highbury:
> (In reply to TheDrunkenBakers)
> [...]
>
> RS4 better handling? They are truly horrible. Have you driven one? You know nothing!

Yes I have, and an RS6. I know a little bit.



woolsack - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to Mike Highbury:
> (In reply to TheDrunkenBakers)
> [...]
>
> RS4 better handling? They are truly horrible. Have you driven one? You know nothing!

And of course Poresche haven't spent the last 40 years trying to move as much weight forward in their tail happy sports car have they?
I've only ever driven one once but it was a most underwhelming experience
John Rushby - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

I've been looking to replace the Solihull Donkey (and it's woeful build quality) and have driven a couple of 911's recently. They are surprisingly good on fuel and beautifully put together, but, I just felt them a bit clinical and right or wrong therei s that mid life crisis air about them.

It seems 50% of owners are out and out enthusiasts, and the other 50% are more than a bit TOWIE.

I'd go for a late model XKR and enjoy the riches of your Shell points......
ads.ukclimbing.com
Mooncat - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Get a grip, Porsches outhandle just about everything, why do you think they dominate endurance races, it's just a different way of driving, once you learn it you'll destroy everything on trackdays.
Tall Clare - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to Mooncat:

There's always the option of getting an older one and getting something else as well - my stepdad has a G-reg one (the one with the fancy gearbox, I'm sure someone who actually knows what they're talking about will know more than I do!) and that only cost about 12k. One big advantage is that at that age it's 'lumphammer technology' so it's not as expensive to fix.
John Rushby - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to Tall Clare:

The G50 gearbox

I'll get my anorak....
EeeByGum - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to Tall Clare:
> One big advantage is that at that age it's 'lumphammer technology' so it's not as expensive to fix.

But then again, my mate recently had a set of new tires fitted on his Porshe for a cool 1k and if anything breaks, you can't pop down to your local scrap yard for cheap parts. :-(
Tall Clare - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to John Rushby:

That's the badger!
Tall Clare - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to EeeByGum:

Unless you live near Leeds - there's a decent-sized Porsche scrapyard near Armley Gyratory if I remember rightly (clearly visible from one of the train lines).

Tyres for new cars cost that much - 4 tyres for Mr TC's Audi is 1k too. Might as well have some fun for that.
The RigPig - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to Steve John B:
> (In reply to The RigPig) 76 grand for a Datsun? Yikes. Looks like the 911/GTR quandary isn't one I'll be facing anytime soon ;-)

You can pick a low mileage second hand one up for "as little" as 30k now.
climber666 on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:
> Anyone on here got one? 5-10 year old.
>
One of the most beautiful cars ever made, but not very practical.
andy - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to John Rushby: I don't quite get why Discos have this reputation for crap build yet RRs don't seem to, and Jag definitely don't - aren't they the same firm?

(He says as he awaits the arrival of a Discovery on Friday...).
Tall Clare - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to andy:
>
>
> (He says as he awaits the arrival of a Discovery on Friday...).

Did you not read Mr Rushby's tale of Disco-woe? :-/
andy - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to Tall Clare:
> (In reply to andy)
> [...]
>
> Did you not read Mr Rushby's tale of Disco-woe? :-/

Nope. It was either a Discovery or a Citroen Berlingo as the two options to get two kids and a bike in...
estivoautumnal - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)
> [...]
>
> And an "s"

So wine doesn't help my spelling then. I'm actually missing a second s. Boxster S.
Steve John B - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to The RigPig:
> (In reply to Steve John B)
> [...]
>
> You can pick a low mileage second hand one up for "as little" as 30k now.

A late 90s MGF with 90k on the clock is more my level unfortunately - 700 well spent!
John Rushby - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to andy:

Mine has just had a new engine put in. Seems the shells move and block off the oil feed which means the big end fails. Not good on a 75,000 mile 5 year old car that new retails new around 50k.

Thankfully that nice Mr Tordoff gave me a bomb proof warranty so it now has a shiny new delivery fresh zero miles engine.

I wouldn't use main dealers - they are gonks, but the indie I used was excellent.

It's now sat waiting for me - just the BACS payment to complete from Car Car and I'm back on the road.
John Rushby - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to John Rushby:

Apparently the 3.8 V8 unit from Ford in the RR is the best engine out there.

The 2.7 TDV6 as per mine is ok in Jags and Citroens and Peugeots (it was jointly developed with PSA) but it's weaknesses are exposed in the 2.5 tonne Discovery.

If the shells don't get you, the overfuelling in cylinder 2 will.

Hope yours is a Monday and not a Friday job like mine.
andy - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to John Rushby: Mine's got the new((er) 3.0SD engine in, which seems to have improved their reputation a bit.

We shall see - I think I said to you I need something I can get my bike bag plus holiday luggage plus kids in, which means Discovery or a van...
John Rushby - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to andy:

You should be ok with the 3.0 engine. I think it is the same block but I am told they addressed the shells issue by putting a locking pin on them.

The Ford days were a transition from the awful BMW days. since the Indians took over I think they are getting much better, and the XF is I think top of the JD Power survey(and that has the 3.0l engine in - it a good engine- especially the 275bhp S model which is like shit of a stick).
woolsack - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal: Oh dear,how the world has changed, two ardent petrol heads waxing lyrically over diesels :)
Steve John B - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to woolsack: They're called diesel heads nowadays don't you know ;)
John Rushby - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to woolsack:

hmm, when you put it like that.

I've no excuse, I don't even have kids.

<<skulks off to buy a Perodua>>
ads.ukclimbing.com
Goucho on 20 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal: I'm on my third - 4s cabriolet, and I love them.

First one was 11 years old when I got it, and it never missed a beat in 3 years.

Great build quality and reliability (avoid the 3.4 engines if you can, they can be prone to the oil seals going - repair is expensive, 3.6 is a much more responsive engine too) and of course, nothing else drives or feels like a 911. Very fast, but also as docile as a puppy in town.

Of course most will have been driven in a 'spirited' fashion, and they are not cheap to repair - even if you avoid the dealerships,so make sure you get it thoroughly checked out before you buy, and of course, a FSH is essential.

But get it right, and they are no more hassle than a Nissan Micra, and a whole lot more fun :-)

Goucho on 20 Jun 2013
In reply to Mike Highbury:
> (In reply to TheDrunkenBakers)
> [...]
>
> RS4 better handling? They are truly horrible. Have you driven one? You know nothing!

Agreed - Mrs Goucho has one (Avante), and despite what the motoring press says, it's still got loads of understeer, and it is utterly anodyne to drive - typical Audi, devoid of any personality.

A 911 is better than an RS4, to the same degree an RS4 is better than a Volvo :-)
Gudrun - on 20 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:
estivoautumnal:
Forget a Porche get yourself an old Lambourgatti GRT !
You can get one for peanuts/the price of a small flat/yearly JSA total for 10 couples.It still has the ever reliable v vanker engine with bolt-on hard-on valve torque compression unit and exciter ring,growls like a lion with 300 horses under the bonnet and a chicken in the glovebox as standard.But be sure not to buy the overhead underhead GRT.5 as the giant rigid turbo shaft pumping injector mechanism can go flacid in cold conditions,resulting in a serious pump shaft masculinity drive failure.Better to go for the GTR!173yy9.4Which is superior to it's predecessor in that you don't have to stand up when driving but the designer bucket they give you to sit on will leave a circular mark on your bum but it gives a more authentic driving experience in my opinion.
Dave - on 20 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

I've got one, 11 years old, a 3.6 C4 that I've had for two years and its been great. I can confirm that you can get a large bouldering mat in the back and a rucksack of gear in. Its also a great winter car, the only really practical option for a proper sports car where I live. The downsides are I still sometimes have mild embarassment when seen driving it, its frustrating not being able to use it to its full potential and the insurance is too expensive.
Dave Garnett - on 20 Jun 2013
In reply to John Rushby:
> (In reply to John Rushby)
> The 2.7 TDV6 as per mine is ok in Jags and Citroens and Peugeots (it was jointly developed with PSA) but it's weaknesses are exposed in the 2.5 tonne Discovery.
>
I've Discos for years but was never convinced by the Disco 3, let alone the Disco 4 - it just seemed to have crossed the line from functional climbing/camping/ skiing/ horse and boat trailer towing occasional off-roading workhorse to Cheshire mums' show pony.

Now my late 'face lift' Disco 2 is showing its age and I'm really wondering what to replace it with. All the local farmers, builders and stonemasons reckon it's a no-brainer, get a double cab Warrior, they all say... Or maybe it will be a proper Defender of some sort.
Postmanpat on 20 Jun 2013
In reply to Gudrun:
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)
> estivoautumnal:
> Forget a Porche get yourself an old Lambourgatti GRT !
>
You should be shamed of yourself, encouraging the wasteful purchase of the egotistical accoutrements of bourgeois consumption and lining the pockets of neoliberal capitalist thieves and destroying our environment.

Bicycles and compulsory State run public transport for all is the way of the future. Up the workers....

another_mark on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

Not as great as their image/reputation in my experience.
Have a look on the pistonheads porsche section - should find honest reports.

Very worthwhile spensing some cash on a proper handling course. They've spent the last couple of decades taming the handling but it can still catch you out if not careful.

In terms of engines I wouldn't be too fussed about oil seals, but problems with bearings and bore wear are more worrying.
Have a chat to Hartech.


Many owners are total dicks.
Goucho on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to another_mark:
> (In reply to estivoautumnal)
>
>
> Many owners are total dicks.

So are many climbers and cyclists.

another_mark on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Goucho: True, but I've never been embarrassed to say that I climb. I have been embarrassed to admit being a 911 owner.

I've also been more embarrassed by other porsche owners than by climbers.

(disclosure: I sold my C4 when the second child came along and now run around in dull estate cars)
Goucho on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to another_mark: I have in fact been embarrassed to say I'm a climber - usually when confronted by a load of teenagers in beanie hats, with 15 bouldering mats stacked under a VS, taking it in turns to 'tick mark' it for the 'big' headpoint later on that afternoon.

I do find it ironic, that the 'Porsche drivers are all tw*ts' stigma - originated in the 80's, along with red braces and Filofax's - still applies today, when everyone knows that all the cocks now drive Audi's.

Basically, people who make derogatory comments about anyone driving a supposedly 'flash' car, are often made by people who can't afford one - not so much black & white, as shades of 'green'.
marsbar - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Tall Clare:
> (In reply to EeeByGum)
>
>
>
> Tyres for new cars cost that much - 4 tyres for Mr TC's Audi is 1k too. Might as well have some fun for that.

How much!!!!

Not for normal boring new cars they don't.
TheDrunkenBakers - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Goucho:
> (In reply to another_mark) I have in fact been embarrassed to say I'm a climber - usually when confronted by a load of teenagers in beanie hats, with 15 bouldering mats stacked under a VS, taking it in turns to 'tick mark' it for the 'big' headpoint later on that afternoon.
>
> I do find it ironic, that the 'Porsche drivers are all tw*ts' stigma - originated in the 80's, along with red braces and Filofax's - still applies today, when everyone knows that all the cocks now drive Audi's.
>
> Basically, people who make derogatory comments about anyone driving a supposedly 'flash' car, are often made by people who can't afford one - not so much black & white, as shades of 'green'.

I drive an Audi. A very sensible A6 diesel estate. I have no points on my license and, with having to drive over 40k a year, would consider myself a decent driver and most certainly not a cock. I dont drive like a loon, hog the middle lane or text whilst at the wheel. Hey, even the alloys arent scuffed.

I also ride a Ducati on sunny weekend's, does that make me more of a cock in your eye's, sweetheart?

Tall Clare - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to marsbar:

Four new tyres for my (un-flash) car cost 300. Rather glad that his is a company car, not his own...
Goucho on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
> (In reply to Goucho)
> [...]
>
> I drive an Audi. A very sensible A6 diesel estate. I have no points on my license and, with having to drive over 40k a year, would consider myself a decent driver and most certainly not a cock. I dont drive like a loon, hog the middle lane or text whilst at the wheel. Hey, even the alloys arent scuffed.

Well you can't call yourself an Audi driver then.
>
> I also ride a Ducati on sunny weekend's, does that make me more of a cock in your eye's, sweetheart?

And whats with the 'sweetheart' - very odd.
Tricky Dicky - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to another_mark:
> Very worthwhile spensing some cash on a proper handling course.

Good advice, far better than stacking it in the wet..........
ti_pin_man - on 21 Jun 2013
car threads always bring out the usual mix of lovers and haters of a given brands and usually the opinion isnt from people with much experience of the said car in question, funny.

I have a 911 C4S convertible, I've owned a few sports cars through my long life and have to say the 911 is awesome to drive, nothing else I've driven takes a corner like it. Talk about sticking to the road. Awesome. It is a fantastic car to drive, a real drivers car. Its quick when you need it/want it to be and such good fun.

Practicality isnt as bad as you'd think, I had two crash mats in on Tuesday night and passenger and bags. I've been mountain biking in it many times... my daughter can happily sit in the back, but I wouldnt put my mum in the back seats for longer than a 15 minute drive.

Yes they are expensive to run.
Yes they can be expensive to insure.
Porsche customer service is nothing special.
They arent any more robust than any other car, they are still mechanical things so will still go wrong or need work AND yes the work can be expensive.
But it still a great car to drive.

Mike Highbury - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Postmanpat:
> (In reply to Gudrun)
> [...]
> You should be shamed of yourself, encouraging the wasteful purchase of the egotistical accoutrements of bourgeois consumption and lining the pockets of neoliberal capitalist thieves and destroying our environment.
>
> Bicycles and compulsory State run public transport for all is the way of the future. Up the workers....

Let's not forget that Porsche also made tractors.
MJ - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Mike Highbury:


Let's not forget that Porsche also made tractors.

...and designed the Volkswagen Beetle.
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to MJ: And was the most succesful hedge fund of 2008
Mike Highbury - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to MJ:
> (In reply to Mike Highbury)
>
>
> Let's not forget that Porsche also made tractors.
>
> ...and designed the Volkswagen Beetle.

See my first post on this thread
ads.ukclimbing.com
Postmanpat on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Mike Highbury:
> (In reply to Postmanpat)
> [...]
>
> Let's not forget that Porsche also made tractors.
>
But did they meet their five year plan comrade?

nniff - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

A friend who is after one freely confesses that it is a 'MenoPorsche'.

I wanted a 'MenoPinarello' and I think I might nearly have won that argument, but it's probably going to be a 'MenoBlueAC1'. I'm happy with a little tin can with an engine, but I do need some carbon in my life. Satisfaction with the former helps the latter.
biped - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
> (In reply to Goucho)
> [...]
>
> I drive an Audi. A very sensible A6 diesel estate. I have no points on my license and, with having to drive over 40k a year, would consider myself a decent driver and most certainly not a cock. I dont drive like a loon, hog the middle lane or text whilst at the wheel.
>

Enough of that attitude sweetcheeks. Us BMW drivers have a monopoly on that sort of indignation I'll have you know.

OP: I remember a great quote in a classic/sportscar mag article from my younger, wealthier,car obsessed youth c.30 years ago: "All 911s are fast. In their day, cc for cc, nothing could touch them."



biped - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Mike Highbury:
> (In reply to Postmanpat)
> [...]
>
> Let's not forget that Porsche also made tractors.

Are you referring to 4wd 911s?
TheDrunkenBakers - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to biped:
> (In reply to TheDrunkenBakers)
> [...]
>
> Enough of that attitude sweetcheeks. Us BMW drivers have a monopoly on that sort of indignation I'll have you know.
>

Touche

Gudrun - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Postmanpat:
Nice commie tractor here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTwK9n9Bgl4 and some more communist bicycles/combine harvesters here(if you can excuse the utter garbage posted by Westerners who don't have a fecking clue what they are talking about and that is a *fact*)http://jalopnik.com/5967179/show-us-the-weirdest-and-best-communist-sports-cars

Another benefit of the Lamborgeoisiatta GTS.73yy9.4 that i prefer although it may not suit many of you is the slightly smaller and less obtrusive passenger and driver pig troughs,which became so much bigger and deeper in the 80's models.
Jim Fraser - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to estivoautumnal:

Everyone ought to experience a well set up rear-engined car. It matters not whether it is a Porche 911, a rally-prepared Skoda 105 (surprising improvement on the vanilla version), or a Hillman Imp on Monte Carlo springs. The point is that this is the engineering answer to a whole range of problems suffered by the majority of cars because they are designed principally for maximum profit and not maximum capability.
Postmanpat on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Gudrun:
> (In reply to Postmanpat)
> Nice commie tractor here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTwK9n9Bgl4 and some more communist bicycles/combine harvesters here(if you can excuse the utter garbage posted by Westerners who don't have a fecking clue what they are talking about and that is a *fact*)http://jalopnik.com/5967179/show-us-the-weirdest-and-best-communist-sports-cars
>
Sweetheart, you are a traitor to your class and to the revolution. Shame on you.
biped - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Jim Fraser:

Oh yes. I had a go of a rally Imp (set up for tarmac if my memory serves) and it was fantastic, though I didn't spend enough time to master it. What I do recall was that the braking was of a different order to anything else I'd driven (which included some quite handy vehicles). Someone along the road from me has a mint Imp, frequently with classic rally plates on it.
Mike Highbury - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Gudrun: St Petersburg soviet v the Red Sailors of Kronstadt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dp-JJeLr9q

Versus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dycp-NXCJe
another_mark on 22 Jun 2013
In reply to MJ:
> (In reply to Mike Highbury)
>
>
> Let's not forget that Porsche also made tractors.
>
> ...and designed the Volkswagen Beetle.

Ahem - copied the design from Tatra.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_%28company%29#Tatra_and_the_Volkswagen_Beetle

another_mark on 22 Jun 2013
In reply to Goucho:
> (In reply to another_mark) I have in fact been embarrassed to say I'm a climber - usually when confronted by a load of teenagers in beanie hats, with 15 bouldering mats stacked under a VS, taking it in turns to 'tick mark' it for the 'big' headpoint later on that afternoon.
>
> I do find it ironic, that the 'Porsche drivers are all tw*ts' stigma - originated in the 80's, along with red braces and Filofax's - still applies today, when everyone knows that all the cocks now drive Audi's.
>
> Basically, people who make derogatory comments about anyone driving a supposedly 'flash' car, are often made by people who can't afford one - not so much black & white, as shades of 'green'.

Strangely defensive?

As I said, I was a 911 owner. Not that its relevant but I could easily afford another one if I wanted.

Aspirational cars always attract more than their fair share of egotistical dicks. With Audi and BMW that is usually in the rep car end of the range.

Porsche are very good at image marketing. Many owners have them because they're a porsche rather than because of the driving characteristics.
woolsack - on 22 Jun 2013
In reply to another_mark:
> Many owners have them because they're a porsche rather than because of the driving characteristics.

<Enter stage left> The Cayenne
another_mark on 22 Jun 2013
In reply to woolsack:
> (In reply to another_mark)
> [...]
>
> <Enter stage left> The Cayenne

<exit stage right; hand over mouth and green faced>

Goucho on 22 Jun 2013
In reply to another_mark:
> (In reply to Goucho)
> [...]
>
> Strangely defensive?

Not really, I've just never heard the old 'if you drive a Porsche you're a w****er' comments from anyone who could afford one.
>
> As I said, I was a 911 owner. Not that its relevant but I could easily afford another one if I wanted.
>
And I could basically afford whatever I want - I choose a 911 because I love how they drive, look and their character - always have.
>
> Porsche are very good at image marketing. Many owners have them because they're a porsche rather than because of the driving characteristics.

You can apply that to most brands - it's why they spend so much money on marketing them - Apple are probably the current masters.
Jim Fraser - on 25 Jun 2013
In reply to biped:
> (In reply to Jim Fraser)
>
> Aye. Here is what a one litre tuned-up fire pump can do in a rear-engined rear-wheel drive configuration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7PIqWsSsHE
Struggles on the straights a bit but chews up and spits out all comers on the corners. Imagine three litres and 250bhp in a similar configuration.
biped - on 25 Jun 2013
In reply to Jim Fraser:

Brilliant. He reels them in through the Eau Rouge, and that Elan wasn't getting away.

Slight tangent: I went to the Doune hillclimb on Sunday. Far and away the daftest car was a 4wd Mini with a 450bhp Mitsubishi turbo lump hanging out its front!!! No Imps or 911s sadly.

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