/ Avalanche/Red Wall/Longlands

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crag_hopper_Jay - on 17 Jul 2013
the ground up guide gives a garde of S 4b, VD in the accompanying photo and it's HVD on here (with 4b pitches) - what's the garde?

Anyone can clarify oe have an opinion on the grade it's much appreciated!
victim of mathematics - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to crag_hopper_Jay:

It's pretty much a long, sustained VDiff. I didn't find the supposedly 4b moves at the top to be very 4b. They certainly weren't massively out of keeping with the rest of the route, or anything to get too worried about. If you can make it that far then you should be fine I'd have thought.
pasbury on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to crag_hopper_Jay:

I'd say that HVD is right but with some provisos; if wet you'll need several grades in hand. If your routefinding and multipitch/general mountaineering skills aren't up to scratch it might quickly become a bit of an epic,
The crux is a bit runout and on typical Lliwedd non-positive holds.
crag_hopper_Jay - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to crag_hopper_Jay: Thanks guys. I though that was the case. Should be ok and looking forward to the adventure!
Offwidth - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to crag_hopper_Jay:

Its S 4b for the Red Wall crux (worrying when wet) and mostly VD otherwise but with some tricky route finding in places.
stonemaster - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to crag_hopper_Jay: Route finding is an enjoyable challenge. Grade as mentioned above is about right. A proper old school mountaineering day out. Good luck.
richparry - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to crag_hopper_Jay:

Try to identify the line of the route on the approach. Once you get to the bottom of the crag it isn't so obvious. It probably says that in the guide, but its well worth taking a few minutes to identify the start.
Blue Straggler - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to richparry:

I managed to get us on entirely the wrong line last year, I don't think we touched any of the proper route and I would estimate three of our early pitches to have been high end HVS. Have not worked out what on earth we were on but I thought it worth mentioning for the OP's sake, in case he's flippantly thinking "yeah yeah we'll get the right line". Lliwedd is known for being hard to route-find. We were too far right.
Several books say "don't worry about the EXACT line, it's all much of a muchness", which caused me to, er, not worry about the EXACT line. Oops.
blurty - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler:
> Several books say "don't worry about the EXACT line, it's all much of a muchness", which caused me to, er, not worry about the EXACT line. Oops.

yes! route finding is a bastard.

the quartz babe for example; you can't see it until you've climbed above/ past it!
Simon Caldwell - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to victim of mathematics:
> I didn't find the supposedly 4b moves at the top to be very 4b

It was starting to rain when I got there so I climbed that bit as fast as possible!

VDiff (traditional) seems the right grade to me.
victim of mathematics - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to blurty:
> (In reply to Blue Straggler)
> [...]
>
> yes! route finding is a bastard.
>
> the quartz babe for example; you can't see it until you've climbed above/ past it!

I don't remember seeing any quartz babes!

I was expecting a routefinding nightmare, so I was pleasantly surprised when it all seemed rather obvious to me. I'm clearly some kind of routefinding wizard.
Blue Straggler - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to victim of mathematics:

In my case I got flustered and rushed trying to get on before another party. Very easy to convince yourself that what you have in front of you matches the description in the book.
Craigyboy13 - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to crag_hopper_Jay: I was hoping to do this route this weekend, but I do struggle sometimes with route finding, it's like with when you read symptoms and you convince yourself you have every desease in the world!

stonemaster - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to Blue Straggler:
> (In reply to victim of mathematics)
>
> Very easy to convince yourself that what you have in front of you matches the description in the book.

That will one's epitaph...:)
crag_hopper_Jay - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to crag_hopper_Jay: I've heard some people have some real epics on the crag so I'm very aware of what can happen. I hope the weather will be okay, it certainly looks like it's going to be! I'm certainly excited/apprehensive about it as it's know for catching people out!

Thanks for all the advice!
Simon Caldwell - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to crag_hopper_Jay:

Judging by all the mentions it's getting, you'll just be able to follow the queue. Which won't help if the team at the front are off route of course ;-)
adam06 - on 17 Jul 2013
finished up this after doing the sword a few weekends ago. there was a massive queue when we joined the group.. one slow group where pitching every 10 meters or so... In the end most groups - including us just picked a random line to get to the top as it was getting late.
jwa - on 17 Jul 2013
Hoping to get on this at the weekend as well. Will have to be a super early start to avoid the queue by the sounds of things. And I hope my route finding is up to scratch. Had some interesting moments last time I was in Wales.
harold walmsley - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to victim of mathematics:

I found the route fitted the description very well until I got established on Longlands. Then there were so many grooves it all got a bit vague. However by just carrying on up I ended up at the pretty unmistakeable final crack, which I found harder than expected.
Skyfall - on 17 Jul 2013
I didn't find the route finding at all hard either, but I do think it's a fairly serious cliff. Holds slanting the wrong way, sometimes poor pro, v committing compared to much cragging in the UK etc. Goats with scary eyes on stances....
helix - on 17 Jul 2013
We found a huge queue at bottom of Avalanche, flicked through the guide and found Central Chimneys, which I think was also S. It was a horror show, took us ages, and we still ended up behind all the people we were trying to overtake! Above that, all went well, didn't seem that hard to follow. The final wall seemed tricky for the grade but there were options.

Overall it was a great day out, good luck and enjoy!
Mark Morris - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to crag_hopper_Jay: As others have said, a great day out. We were both climbing well, but route finding is the real key for enjoying it. We had the weather, time and no midges and the crag to ourselves!

I think we were on route when my mate led and I must have gone of it every pitch I led!

There were times where I was run out, on poor rock and doing stuff you shouldn't be doing at V.Diff/S. Scared the beejesus out of me at times.

Keep some in hand, as said above. Mostly, enjoy safely!

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