UKC

Getting a bit fed up of fiddling with the phone to track my runs, and also
looking to do some proper training as opposed to running how I feel, and
also fancy buying something shiny to play with. Therefore I’m thinking
about a GPS watch. Apart from standard HR compatibility etc, main criteria
are:

Robust – I can break most things.
Waterproof.
Works in rain so no touch bezels.
Good battery life – ability to reduce GPS recording rate for slower
activities.
Reasonable training functions for solo runner, virtual partner type of
thing.
Android compatible software - I’d prefer to use a tablet rather than my
ageing and slow windoze laptop.
Ability to get OSGB grid ref in real time would be nice.

That puts me in Garmin 310/910 territory, however reading the reviews I
have:

Issues with fogging due to moisture, even in waterproof models
Fragile pins, reports of straps breaking, general shoddiness of units.

Alternative would be a Suunto Ambit 2.

Pros:
Bit more watch like than the orange/silver monstrosity that is the 310XT
Build quality seems extremely good.
Extended battery using 60 second sampling.

Cons:
Expensive, and then some.
Stuck with using Movescount and issues in exporting to Strava etc reported.
Not got the training functionality of the Garmins.
Is Movescount android compatible?
Customer support – Original Ambit sold on Monday, Ambit 2 released on
Tuesday with no further support for Ambit. What happens when Ambit 3 comes
out?

Thoughts welcome, and yes I’m aware I could feed a starving orphan for a
year for that sort of money.

In reply to Ridge:

Can't help with Suunto and only have older 205 Garmin but:

Never had trouble with strap pins - anyway I think they're easy to get at watch menders.

Had one before that was anything but moisture proof. The battery terminals corroded and disintegrated. I've put waterproof tape over the breather holes in an effort to stop this, though they may not be breather holes anyway. Never had fogging.

I use it with a Mac and downloading is a breeze. There's plenty of software or online sites for downloads whether you use a Mac or Pc.

Garmin PC/Mac software is absolutely s***e, though their online upload site Garmin Connect does have a good height correction option which is intrinsically poor on GPS.

If the charging cradle or the pins on the device get at all worn connection is difficult.

Have done 7 hour days on one charge.

You can set quite a few things to display on screen simultaneously. A selection of pretty much any of the things that the gps is capable of recording - time, height, ascent, pace etc etc; map (very basic and not scrollable, but it will get you back if lost). The training functions probably aren't worth bothering about, except maybe laps and the ability to sense stops automatically.

In reply to Ridge:
The Garmin Fenix is the most comparative to the Suunto Ambit. However it was designed by the Outdoors section of Garmin, not the Running section, so is missing many of the running features that the 310/910 have, ie it is more like a wrist version of a Garmin handheld hiking unit.

I've got the 910 and not had any problems with fogging in the rain, nor any strap problems, or any problems with the charging pins.

Can't extend the sampling rate to 60s though, so stuck with 20 hour ( if you're lucky ) battery - unless you attach an external battery to the unit, but then awkward/uncomfortable to wear. But ultra runners do do this

In reply to Ridge: I have an Ambit 2, and it does everything I want - blisteringly fast satellite lock, accurate measurement, barometric altitude with GPS calibration, multiple sports modes, swimming measurement, UK grid refs etc etc.

BUT - look on the Suunto section of the watchuseek forums and look at the 23 page thread on syncing problems. - it's incredibly flaky when I sync it to my computer. I now reckon it takes between 4 and 8 attempts to get an activity uploaded. This is the second Ambit2 I've had (they replaced the first one as they decided it was the hardware - it's not - it's a problem with the incredibly slow upload that causes it to fail repeatedly. This has been ongoing for months, and Suunto either don't care enough, or are not competent enough, to fix it.

If Garmin would make the Fenix look more "wearable" (I wear my running watch as an every day watch) then I'd be off like a shot - Suunto's "legendary" service sucks.

In reply to Ridge:
That's the other thing to mention about the 310/910 in case you haven't spotted it

You CAN'T wear them as everyday watches, as the the GPS is always on, so you're 20 hour battery life starts immediately. Other Garmin running watches, eg FR610, can be "on" without the gps being on, and will last about 6 days betyween charges if gps not being used.

It's something that the Garmin support threads are full of, asking Garmin to do a software change to allow the gps to be off whilst the watch is on, but so far they have ignored the pleas, and to be honest the watches are so big ( especially the 310 ) that you wouldn't really want to wear as an everyday watch, but would be useful on race day for wearing on the way to or after the race.

In reply to Ridge:

I have a Garmin 410, the price of which would only feed a starving orphan for a month.

I find that the bevel works well and I like the various training features I can get.

WIth GPS on it lasts 7/8 hours, which is OK for running but not for a long Bob Graham/W3000 etc day. With GPS off, I don't know how long the battery lasts, but several days at least. It would be great to have a lower sampling rate option, suitable for walking days, that extended the GPS-on battery life to 24 hours.

The ascent feature works well unless I run for long sections along the coast path, when it overestimates the total ascent - keeps thinking I have jumped off and climbed back up again.

The bluetooth upload is automatic and fast, but I have had to re-insall the Ant-agent software for this several times. I don't know why. Uploads to Strava are even quicker.

In reply to steelbru:

RE the Garmin 910xt you can turn the GPS off, and quite easily too. Just press mode, enter the GPS menu and disable. Then the battery lasts quite a while. I have worn mine as a watch when I have run or cycled into work and just kept the watch on for the day, although they can be a bit bulky.

In reply to All:

Thanks all, some good info there!

With the Suunto, andy seems to confirm what I've read - very solid bit of hardware with flaky interface.

On the 910XT, is there much battery drain with GPS disabled? For a long day would it be a case of charging it up then turning the watch off, (can you do that?), then turning it on sn letting the GPS aquire just before setting off to preserve the battery?

In reply to Ridge: The sync issue seems to mainly affect Mac users, although I tried my first watch on 3xmacs and 1xWin7 machines and it didn't work properly on any of them.

It looks like Suunto have finally accepted there's an issue, having variously told me it was my computer, my USB port, my USB lead (I've now got three...), some other software on my computer and the alignment of Saturn in my third quadrangle. They have also suggested that as they're so crap at fixing this issue I might prefer to just take it back to the retailer and ask for my money back - which seems a bit harsh on the retailer who sold me a perfectly functional watch, but with crap software.

In reply to Ridge:
go read DC rainmaker's blog.
my 310 was find then leaked but got repaired. The battery is ok and you can get gb grid out in real time. (goto map "page" and press the enter button)
The 310 hasn't had much in the way of updates after the 610 and 910 were released like the ambit.
I have not heard great things form any of the long term garmin users that I know.

the bia may be worth a look too.
If I had the money I would buy the ambit 2

In reply to mountainpenguin:

Ta. DC Rainmaker was the first point of call. Excellent source of info, but I'm interested in the views from people who live with the watches on a daily basis. For example you won't read about leaky 310s on his blog unless they do that straight out of the box. Abdy's issues with the Ambit 2 is another example.

In reply to Ridge:
I have the Ambit 1 and have been using it pretty much daily for the past year.
The inital issues with it have generally been ironed out, and the problems that it had with synching were solved within a few days of them happening. (admittidly, at the time, it was ridiculously frustrating, but there you go).

I don't think it will work with an android interface, or ipad related thing. To be honest, although the ambit 2 is out, Im not rushing out to buy one. If it goes through the same process as the 1, by the time the 3 comes out, it might just be a usable bit of kit.
Im of the same opinion as the other guy about suuntos "legendary" servicing, as far as i can see they might have bitten off a bit more than they realise with the whole ambit thing.

That being said, now Ive got the thing working like I need it, and that Ive decided not to lust after the ambit 2, and that I use my computer to upload all my bits and bobs, it really is the best bit of outdoor gadgetry that Ive used.

Oh, and there are no issues in exporting to strava. That was the case, but it is no longer.
As far as Im concerned it has every bit of training functionality as any Garmin Ive ever used (and Ive used and owned a few). Bearing in mind I just use it for running and cycling, not swimming.

In reply to digby:

Can't really dispute that!


But this over-corrects (and demonstrably when it gives activities' high points as below known summit heights), so needs treating with similar caution.

In reply to zephr: I had an Ambit 1 briefly - I think I'm correct in saying to get stuff on Strava you have to upload to Movescount and then export the GPX? Or does it import directly to Strava now? I'm still going via Movescount with my Ambit2.