UKC

So I've signed up for a half marathon in 2 weeks. Yesterday I went for a 4 mile run and have pretty sore legs. Has anyone got any tips to make the most of the little training time I have? I have good cardio from cycling and a good base of general fitness.

Is this foolish? Does it take more than two weeks to train?

In reply to Kemics: I would say it's possible but its going to hurt....

In reply to Kemics:

What are you trying to achieve? Just get around or a specific time? How fast did you run 4 miles?

In reply to The New NickB:

A fairly fit person of your age should be able to run a half marathon. Training for two weeks won't make you much fitter, but may start to get your legs used to running a bit.

In reply to Kemics:

There is no training that you can do that will help you in the run. It'll be a bit of a sufferfest.

Also running one mile and then walking for one minute, is a good tactic to manage the race.

I suspect you know this but ice/cold water baths etc will help the aching.

In reply to Kemics:
If you don't usually run, it's not surprising you've got sore legs today, and you shouldn't necessarily take it as an inevitable sign of things to come. Why did you only run 4 miles - was it because that's all you had time for, or because you felt your legs couldn't manage any more, or because you were out of breath? And how fast did you run? Do you think you could have run further if you'd run slower?

However ...


I'm not sure about foolish, but as has been said, it's going to hurt and you won't really do yourself justice. In two weeks, you're not really going to do much to change your fitness levels, so you need to do anything you can to get your legs used to working for however long you think it'll take you to do the run, which basically involves going running.

A lot of training programmes suggest a maximum 10% increase in weekly mileage, so from that perspective, you're stuffed. You'll get round, but you might find there are better ways of preparing for a half.

In reply to Kemics:
Not much going to happen in 2 weeks - runners start tapering for races from 2 weeks out, whereas you're just starting to train ! It's generally accepted that specific training takes about 2 weeks to become effective.

So, if you've got decent cardio from cycling then the main difference, and reason for sore legs, is that cycling is a non-impact sport, whereas running is the opposite, so I'd do a few more runs to get the legs a bit more used to the pounding, say every 2nd day, probably wouldn't go over 6 or 7 miles, and rely on current fitness to get you round.

You'll hurt after the race, but you should get round ok - enjoy !

In reply to Kemics:

Its a definite route to injury. You have the cardio fitness but probably not the strength in your tendons, bones and ligaments.

In reply to Kemics:

I'm not going to tell you that your not going to get injured, because that is an unknown, but the risks associated with doing a couple of longer runs and the half marathon are not great. DOMS will be an issue, but serious injury is unlikely.

In reply to Kemics: It takes 10-14 days to get fitness benefit. You can condition your legs though.. so I'd just run as normal, don't bother tapering as you need something to taper from.

Thanks for the advice. I'd not considered injury ..which is stupid because the only reason in running is becaus I've ruined my elbow and want to keep exercising. What is DOMS?

I used to do a lot of running, so I'm not so much developing fitness as regaining..which I'm told is a lot faster.

Is it bad to train on sore legs?

My plan is to push hard for the next 11 days. Then take the 3 off before the race to totally recover

In reply to Kemics:

Honestly, (please) don't do any training! You'll be wasting your time (and getting knackered). Just amble along at a comfortable pace on race day (one where you can chat to people) - and wear comfy trainers!

The last time I did anything like that was running the Snowdonia Marathon with no marathon training (was talked into it during a Welsh 3000s crossing on the grounds it was fairly flat in comparison) - jogged round in just over four hours with plenty to eat and drink on the way and it was fine. Admittedly I was a regular road-runner at the time but really wasn't training for any racing over 10k.

You'll be fecked the day after but you will get round - better than trying to train and being fecked the day before!

In reply to Kemics:

Delayed onset muscle soreness. It's probably what you are feeling now.

In reply to Kemics:

Training on tired legs is fine, those of us doing decent mileage do most days and you will have tired legs second half of the half. Don't kill yourself, but make sure you do a few runs pushing the distance a bit further. Couple of days is fine for recovery before the race.

In reply to Kemics:
A lot of hamstring stretches post-run is probably a good idea if you're stepping up from nothing. i.e. even more than you're supposed to do, to keep muscle soreness/ aching to a minimum.

In reply to Strachan:

Yeah definitely need to do more stretching. Feels like my calves are exploding this morning

In reply to Kemics:

It can be - depends on why they're sore. Pain can be a result of simple underuse, or can be a sign of something more important, in which case you might make a simple problem into a serious one.

That is a recipe for injury - pushing hard regardless of how your legs feel will not do you any good, and 3 days may not be enough to recover.

In reply to Kemics:
Age 40 I ran a half marathon with no running training at all but a good base fitness from hill walking and low level competitive squash (was on Barra for 2 weeks and did their 'Barathon' on the middle Saturday after a space turned up at the last minute).

Anyway found it fun..........for about the first 8 miles.

Was doing about 7-7.30 mins a mile.........but then my leg muscles steadily got more painful.........and I was almost hobbling by the end......think the last mile, which was pretty much downhill took about 15 mins. Over the next 3 days using my legs were very painful, could hardly use my quads at all - oh how my kids laughed as I tried to go upstairs!

The runners on the island I spoke to said the distance was just too far for someone with 'no miles in their legs' - I would fully agree.......... but still glad I did it. You are much youger so it should be better - give it a whirl and let us know how it goes.

Gregor

In reply to tony: yeah it takes experience to know 'good pain' from 'bad pain'.. Many think stiffness is bad.. thats normal for me anyway.. the day I walk out of bed and downstairs without gripping the walls will be novel.. but within 1-2 miles I'm running fine. But I also know when the pain is IT band issues when I need to back off.

In reply to IainRUK:

Lol I thought it was just me that did that every morning!

In reply to Kemics:
Run the first two, get a bus for the middle section, alight two miles from the end and run to the finishing tape.

Right, signed up at ready to go!

Race day is 15th of September but I'm going to rest the last 4 days. I want to be totally fresh on race day.

Next question: how much should I spend on a reasonable pair of running shoes?

Will post a time or my Dnf distance when I'm done I had to estimate my time - I said 2 hours?

In reply to Kemics:

What are you running in at the moment and why do you think you should get a new pair?

In reply to Kemics: New trainers might not be the best idea a few weeks before the race...I'd add eat lots of carbs the night before and go steady the whole way round - you might feel as though you're going slowly, but you need to have enough left to go the full 13.1. Good luck! Soak up the race atmosphere as well, people cheering and sharing a few smiles (grimaces?!) with other runners along the way are no substitute for training but will help you get round.

In reply to lizard-16-07:

Yeah I'm looking forward to it interesting thought about pacing. The only other race i did (a long time ago) I was overly conservative and tried to run slow and found it strangely tiring. I have abnormally lanky legs and if I fall into my natural stride, even though it's faster, it feels easier ... But I had plenty of gas left at the time

Diet is something else I need to think about, so lots of carbs night before and lots of sugar on the day?

I thought I should buy some new shoes because my current running shoes are a pair my dad gave me when I was 15 because he hated the fit. So 10 years old and never fitted that well in the first place...and cheap too! )

In reply to Kemics: It's difficult to say how much sugar, everyone is quite different - i found I wasn't used to loads of sugar on the day, and the three jelly babies I had on the way round didn't really agree with me! The big load of lasagne the night before served me well though, as did porridge and some bananas in the morning.

In reply to gregor:

Wow, you managed to run 8 miles at 7 minute mileing pace with no training, you must be super talented!

In reply to Kemics: unless you can run a half in under 01:20:00 I wouldn't bother. Just go to the pub,

Is it the GNR? Give you a lift to the start if you need one?

In reply to jonnylowes:
I think you just eliminated about 98% of runners, myself included, although maybe next year.

In reply to The New NickB:

Dude, comment made tongue in cheek....as in if you can't solo E7 in flip flops etc etc.

In reply to jonnylowes:

Ah, in that case you should have set the bar a bit higher

It's the Bristol Half marathon

Fortunately I can solo E7 in greased up rollerblades. Unfortunately though i've totally trashed my elbow recently...so decided to take up running to stay active.

In reply to Kemics:
In that case, you will be fine, as a climber you will appreciate the Portway and Gorge in both directions unlike the rest of the field who find it tedious! Good luck!

Today I ran 6 miles in 49 mins. Pretty pooped. Calves were a little achey from earlier runs in the week, started feeling sore at 1 mile in but didn't really get much worse. Actually felt it most in my ankles and knees...not sure i could have done a second lap but hopefully peer pressure of the crowd will push me on

In reply to Kemics:

Well done!

In reply to Kemics:

Try 8 miles in a few days. 8 minute mile pace isn't bad for a beginner. I'm sure you will be ok for a sub 2 hour half.

In reply to Kemics: I've loved reading this thread, it seems a list of everything you shouldn't do in prep for a "long" event. Then you topped it all by asking about new trainers! Brilliant!

I've got my first half at the end of the month and typically average under 9 min/mile, but with it being a trail run I may be even worse than that. My training has been hampered heavily with a hamstring issue, but am back up to 10km+ so I'm getting more confident, but being a poor runner am a tad nervous

So I'm a little bit jealous!
Good luck in Bristol - read the Avon guidebook beforehand and you can pass the time working out the routes in the Gorge!

In reply to JamButty:

Should I really not be buying new trainers? It's something i've been meaning to do for ages...my old ones are such crap (worried they'll give me an injury). Though is there like a 'breaking in' period that you shouldn't push it in new shoes?

Good news is my legs arn't particularly sore from yesterday (made it down stairs without a monkey impression). But I did a good 40 mins stretching and an ice bath

Thanks for all the advice and support everyone It really is greatly appreciated!

..I usually make an effort to go climbing in the gorge whenever there's a run/bike race as it's soo much more pleasant climbing without the road noise. Going to be weird being in the race and not watching it!

In reply to Kemics:

New trainers will be fine, just make sure they are right for your feet and do at least one training run in them.

In reply to Kemics:

I've just agreed to run a half this weekend. I'm banking on some background fitness, good nutrition and a willingness to suffer to get me round in under 2hrs. Good luck with yours.

In reply to The New NickB: I'd get em quick then, I've definitely found any new footwear including running shoes need a bedding in period.

In reply to JamButty:

Really, I get through about 8 pairs of running shoes in a year, so I am always wearing new ones, sometimes the first or second time of wearing will be a race. Never had a problem. That said, no point the OP leaving it late.

In reply to The New NickB: Aye.. I wear at least one new pair a month.. if its the same pair I'd maybe do 1 run before hand.. even before my 100k I actually bought a new type the day before as a panic buy as my regulars were unavailable and my current shoe was worn..

In reply to The New NickB:

What! That's a pair every six weeks. How far do you run?

In reply to MG: Depending on the shoe its 350-500 miles in most.. I'll do just under 5000 miles a year.. 90 miles aweek.. ~400 miles a month.. and I like light weight shoes..

In reply to MG:

I get through a pair of road shoes in about 2 months, 450-500 miles, add to that 1 or 2 pairs of fell shoes and a pair of XC spikes.

In reply to IainRUK:

Having just added up, that is not so different to when mine wear out. I just run (a lot!) less than you and NickB.

For some reason Innov8s alwasy seem to wear out by the lacing holes wearing through, which makes them useless but frustratingly otherwise fine.

In reply to The New NickB:

Wow, I'm still getting decent use out of a pair of Brooks Cascadia 7s with 800 miles on the clock. Ran in them a lot during the winter in the snow, so I guess the wear on the soles was limited then. Now they're my trusty backup while I run in a pair of the 8s, which seem brand new in comparison with 300 miles.

Exclusively trail though, road might be more wear, although I would expect the rocky trails I run to be more punishing.

In reply to yorkshireman:

Compression of the EVA more than anything. I'm trying out some Adidas Boost at the moment, the EVA is much more expanded, supposed to last longer, we will see. Different issue with the fell shoes, they just fall apart after a few hundred miles.

In reply to The New NickB: I feel it in my knees quads when they need to go.. the roads hammers them. When I run more on the forest trails they seem better.

Even with very modest mileage it's easy to get through 2 or 3 pairs a year, I'll get through at least a fell and road or trail. Something else will need replacing, or I'll spot a bargain or vanity purchase. Runner's World would tell you never to try anything new before race day, mind you they'd probably tell you not to train too hard ...where's the fun in that?

You'll not get much fitness in 2 weeks - I'd argue with people saying none, there are gains when you're coming of a low base - but you can certainly get confidence from banging out say an 8 or 9 miler well before and going into it well rested.

In reply to Kemics:
I did my first 1/2m on 2 weeks training. I was in my mid 30s and fairly fit/strong from a hard manual job, I also had a background of sport - though not running.

I ran every day the first week, starting at about 3 miles and culminating in a 13 mile plod round the lanes (completely knackered), then did nothing the next week. Wearing the old Hi Tech silver shadow shoes!!

A very hot day in June and a reasonably hilly course in Sussex, I ran 1.44. By October I was down to 1.27.

I wouldn't recommend this but it can be done. Good luck.

In reply to Kemics:
Hi-tec Silver Shadow - my first ever "proper" running shoes about 30 years ago

In reply to Kemics:

I reckon you should be fine but you'll ache pretty good the 2 days after.

I've done 2 halfs with no training but good fitness from racing bikes at the time. I was hampered a bit by wearing a giant foam crab costume on both occasions. It sort of stopped my arms swinging freely and the claws made it hard to hold the plastic cups at the drink stations. It also got progressively heavier as it soaked up the water I threw over my head to keep cool.

My times were 1:41 and 1:44 respectively but the second year was a bigger costume which made my elbows bleed with the chafing and was less fun.

I think the crab suit was a 10min handicap as it caught the wind like a sail and it was hilly.

Have fun and watch what you wear!! Nothing too foam based!

I wore normal trainers (Mizuno Wave Riders) and did not run sideways.

In reply to Kemics:

As others have said if you have a reasonable level of fitness for a 25 year old you should get round OK but you're going to hurt afterwards. Forget about trying to achieve a decent time, don't be tempted to push your pace, just relax and plod round at a comfortable jog

Yeesh, talk about a gauntlet down! No novelty costume, no excuses now

I'm fully kitted out now with a pair of new trainers and pervert-small ronhill shorts...never has the phrase 'all the gear, no idea' ever been so apt.

In reply to Kemics: Turning up in a new pair of trainers and shorts for a half marathon shouldn't single you out as a novice with no idea. A Cathy Freeman one piece with hood on the otherhand....

In reply to Bjartur í Sumarhús:

There is nearly always one in full Salomon Adventure Racing / Ultra Endurance kit, including hydration vest with extra bottles, usually running very slowly.

In reply to The New NickB:

I am doing my first proper (AS, it's virtually a cheese rolling event) fell race tonight. I have never even watched one before. Proposed kit: short flappy shorts, singlet, knackered old Inov8s. What else do I need to look the part?

In reply to mbh:

You need to pin your number on squint.

In reply to mbh:

Lycra

In reply to mbh:

For a fell race the criteria is usually kit so knackered that you are barely decent! As a rule fell runners don't like spending money.

Today I ran 8.5 miles in 1 hour 15. New shoes were good but I really felt the run in my knees. Pace was okay, felt like I could have squeezed a few more miles out but it's going to be brutal!

Also the heat didn't help!

Oh and the hunger!!! I set off without lunch and was absurdly hungry. Spent the last half purely fantasising about different foods and sugar

In reply to Kemics:
Eating prep is key to doing this stuff without any training. I've done one on a bbq the night before and a pint at lunch, and another with a nice balance for dinner the night before a good breakfast and some banannas etc.

Trust me eating properly makes the whole thing much much nicer.

In reply to mbh:


Grey hair and self-deprecation.

In reply to Kemics:

Is your race today, or soon?

Good luck!

In reply to mbh: It's tomorrow, and I suspect it's the Great North Run.

I'm doing it as well. Feel totally unprepared for it to be honest. Lots of niggling injuries really hampered my training. I have spent the week resting, and today eating LOTS, and with the 60mph tailwind forecast I reckon I'll make it

Good luck all those taking part.

In reply to Martin1978:

Whilst i would love to do this years GNR, the weather looks horrific.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

I'm already looking forward to the hot shower tomorrow night!

In reply to Martin1978:

Ill bet you are. Anyway, good luck for tomorrow and to eeryone else who's doing it. After a fast 5km this morning and some tough gardening involving lots of heavy lifting this afternoon, im goingto enjoy the GNR from the comfort of my bed with lots of fresh hot coffee. I'm gonna ache tomorrow.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers: Thanks, I think I'll need it!

And if anyone fancies sponsoring me I'm not too proud to hijack the thread ;P

http://www.justgiving.com/martinhurton

In reply to Martin1978:
Good luck to you and Kemics both!

In reply to Kemics:

How did you get on?

Weather in Bristol was kind, I managed it in 1 hour 52 mins. The biggest help was picking another runner and deciding they were my pace setter, just followed them the whole way. Not having to worry about pace or distance and just focused on them.

Muscle wise I felt very fresh, cardio was very comfy, however I did really feel it in my joints. After about 3 miles had various aches. Particularly my knees now are very sore, just had an ice bath which I'm hoping will help.

Thanks for all the support everyone

Was actually a really fun way to spend a morning, great atmosphere with everyone cheering! ...will sleep well tonight

In reply to Kemics:

Well done! Think what you could do with some proper training

In reply to Kemics:
Well done, great effort, now get off-road and indulge in some enjoyable running!

In reply to Moley:

How sad that you only see off road running as enjoyable!

Update: oh dear god the pain. The paaaain. Only just started going down stairs forward. Should have done way more stretching did a few toe touches and went to the pub ...