UKC

Midge repellent (Deet) and ropes?

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Adrian Croome 04 Sep 2003
Whilst climbing in the Peaks I overheard a conversation about not using Deet midge repellent whilst handling climbing gear. Unfortunately I had just sprayed myself with 50% deet spray and was belaying! This was the only time I have done this. How serious is the damage deet does to gear and after this one time should I worry about my rope? Also is there a good repellent?
OP Anonymous 04 Sep 2003
In reply to Adrian Croome: According to recent BMC tests DEET doesn't affect ropes, hopefully someone can post a link to the test results online somewhere.
Woker 04 Sep 2003
In reply to Anonymous:
however it can melt some plastics espcially at high concentrations so is pretty dodgey..... Wonder if it effect spectra in a differing way to standard nylon
OP Nick in Sheffield 04 Sep 2003
In reply to Woker: Tricky one, I've not seen any research into that. There's some stuff at http://spelean.com.au/BW/TM/BWtechdyn.html but I can't find the bmc test I was thinking of.
OP Nick in Sheffield 04 Sep 2003
In reply to Woker: I have too much time on my hands. From some test performed by sterling ropes (big in the States):

Summary of Nylon, PET and Spectra Chemical Resistance to DEET
Nylon 1R88, Polyester 1W70, and S-900 Spectra were submitted for chemical resistance testing for DEET (N,N diethyl-m-toluamide). The three samples were immersed separately in “CUTTER” and “OFF” brand insect repellent for a period of twenty-four hours at room temperature. “OFF” contains 95% DEET while “CUTTER” contains only 7% DEET and probably some oil based solvents as well. The results of the testing indicate no loss of strength as measured by tensile strength retention in any of the three samples.

There was one interesting anomaly that occurred only in the case of Nylon and the "CUTTER” brand insect repellent. As mentioned before there was no loss of strength for any of the samples but here there was a 25% increase in the elongation and a decrease in modulus. This basically means that a rope made entirely or mostly out of Nylon may become “rubbery” with a significant amount of exposure to “CUTTER” or other insect repellents with large amounts of oil based solvents.

However, with regard to the chemical in question, DEET, there appears to be no effect on any of the physical properties of the three samples. Hence as “CUTTER” contains only 7% DEET the change in the Nylon elongation and modulus must come from the other solvents in the product. One suggestion to the customer might be to tell the rope users that if they have a rope made of significant amounts of Nylon to use insect repellents with 95-100% DEET instead of ones with some DEET and large amounts of other oil based solvents.
Nick Alcock 04 Sep 2003
In reply to Adrian Croome:
Don't know if this is relevant, but a can of the stuff tipped over in my tent and melted a large hole in the groundsheet.
 Clare 04 Sep 2003
In reply to Adrian Croome:

can i be naive and ask why people use DEET? it sounds terrifying!
Adrian Croome 04 Sep 2003
In reply to Nick in Sheffield:
Thanks for your research and in answer to my question I can take it that the minimal exposure my gear recived I shouldn't worry.
 Dave Stelmach 04 Sep 2003
In reply to Nick Alcock: Sounds a bit like Ouzo. I left some in a plastic beaker overnight and it frosted the plastic
Nick Alcock 04 Sep 2003
In reply to Dave Stelmach:
Jaysus.... This was something called 'Secto'.
Makes you wonder when you're spraying it all over your face....
jimtheape 04 Sep 2003
In reply to Clare: come and meet the lovely scottish midge, armed only with a bottle of poncy jungle formula (which seems to attract them) then u would prolly do quite a lot for a bottle of deet.
 Chris McDaid 04 Sep 2003
In reply to jimtheape:

The lovely Scottish midge has been proven to be totally allergic to Avon SSS Woodland Fresh bath oil.

Cheers
 JayH 04 Sep 2003
In reply to Chris McDaid:

Alas, the fanged Scottish midge is known to be partial to JayH basted lightly with said Avon oil. I do take it personally, as I know other people whom it works for. I prefer neat Deet, as I like to watch the little fekkers land on me and die instantly from the chemicals.
Father Faff 04 Sep 2003
In reply to jimtheape:
> (In reply to Clare) come and meet the lovely scottish midge, armed only with a bottle of poncy jungle formula (which seems to attract them) then u would prolly do quite a lot for a bottle of deet.


I thought Jungle Formula was largely DEET and not only kills midges but destroys human cells as well?
 Ian Hunt 04 Sep 2003
In reply to Adrian Croome:
I've always worried about the way that Deet 'melts' lowe Alpine base layers.......
Father Faff 04 Sep 2003
In reply to Ian Hunt:

And shrinks your willy.
Clauso 05 Sep 2003
In reply to Clare:
> (In reply to Adrian Croome)
>
> can i be naive and ask why people use DEET? it sounds terrifying!

DEET works for me. In my experience, it's very effective in keeping the dreaded midge at bay.

This was confirmed last weekend when (DEET-ridden-me) belayed (none-DEET-ridden-mate) up the second pitch of Black and Tans. I could literally see clouds of the buggers following him up the route. When he arrived at the top, we were both eaten alive... Needless to say, I kicked him off the stance in the vague direction of Leek.

At that point in time, I didn't give a toss about the possible degradation of the ropes but am now keen to hear more.
chris tan 05 Sep 2003
In reply to Adrian Croome:

There was a good midge thread a few weeks ago but I can't get the search to work
 Clare 05 Sep 2003
In reply to jimtheape:

i don't know about scottish midges but english midges don't bite me. Lucky, aren't i?

(ducks for cover)
 Ian Hunt 05 Sep 2003
In reply to Father Faff:
> (In reply to Ian Hunt)
>
> And shrinks your willy.

...speak for yourself!!!
chris tan 05 Sep 2003
OP Thrutch Boy 05 Sep 2003
In reply to Adrian Croome:

Top midge-related tip: take an anti-histamine, or similar allergy pill, before or immediately after exposure. In my experience dramatically reduces discomfort, presumably by damping down your reaction to the bite.
Sarah G 05 Sep 2003
In reply to Thrutch Boy:
Thanks for the tip. I get eaten alive (although noticeably less so when smeared with Avon SSS woodland fresh dry oil) and the tip is so easy- after all, i usually end up eating packets of chlorpheniramine on return home....too late.....
Sxx
jimtheape 05 Sep 2003
In reply to all: it is only a matter of time until the midges become resistent to avon stuff. i donot think jungle formula contains deet to the person who asked? back me up some1?
jimtheape 05 Sep 2003
In reply to Father Faff: is that if u put the deet there???
chris tan 05 Sep 2003
In reply to jimtheape:

JF does not contain DEET - more like midge attractant IMO. I've now switched to Buzz Off from superdrug £3.99 for 100ml. Contains 30% DEET & WORKS!
Father Faff 06 Sep 2003
In reply to jimtheape:

Us naked ramble......oops, nearly gave myself away there....

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