/ Would someone English or French care to defend your rugby clubs

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Frank4short - on 22 Sep 2013
What with their throwing the toys out of pram cause the Heineken cup was not set up in an optimum format for them.

So I'm half way round the planet and only reading Irish media but from what I've read they thrown their toys out of the pram looking for a bigger share of TV revenue even though based on their performances they're not really entitled to it. Hence why i'm here asking for a different side of the story.

So explain/justify to me why it's acceptable they've gone and set up their own new competing league?
Postmanpat on 22 Sep 2013
In reply to Frank4short:

The English and French clubs bring in 80% of the TV revenue but have bigger and more competitive leagues from which to qualify. They are thus playing more and harder games which militates against them in the Heineken.
Oceanrower - on 22 Sep 2013
In reply to Frank4short: The fact that Zebre were pretty much automatic qualifiers shows the old system wasn't working.
Frank4short - on 22 Sep 2013
In reply to Postmanpat:
>
> The English and French clubs bring in 80% of the TV revenue but have bigger and more competitive leagues from which to qualify.

As far as I'm aware, and i'm happy to be proven wrong on this, revenue is divided equally. The main differentiating factor being division between stages of the tournament. So the further you go the more money you get.

> They are thus playing more and harder games which militates against them in the Heineken.

This will be the same with any international club tournament surely. If their home league is bigger they'll have to play more matches.

Seems to me everything I've read about it, and yes I will admit most of the coverage has been biased but i've yet to see a comprehensive article in the UK media i read, is the English and French clubs want to get a new more advantageous TV deal and a disproportionately large share of TV rights automatically because their nations provide the lions share of viewers whether or not they are progressing in the tournament. E.g. if they don't get further than initial stages of qualifying they still expect a cut of the later stages TV rights because the people watching TV are from where they're from.

Also there is the very real possibility this could seriously damage European/6 nations rugby by removing serious club competition for the teams in the nations outside of England and France. As English or French seeing the likes of the Welsh or Irish deteriorate may seem like a good thing on the face of it but in the long term I doubt it'll really be good for anyone.
elsewhere on 22 Sep 2013
In reply to Frank4short:
The strength of a negotiating position for TV rights is determined by the size of TV audience rather than performance on the pitch.
Postmanpat on 22 Sep 2013
In reply to Frank4short:
> (In reply to Postmanpat)
> [...]
>
> As far as I'm aware, and i'm happy to be proven wrong on this, revenue is divided equally. The main differentiating factor being division between stages of the tournament. So the further you go the more money you get.
>
Exactly:That's the problem: the audiences are 80% English and French.
>
> This will be the same with any international club tournament surely. If their home league is bigger they'll have to play more matches.
>
Yes, so they believe they should get more berths in the tournament.
>
> Also there is the very real possibility this could seriously damage European/6 nations rugby by removing serious club competition for the teams in the nations outside of England and France.
>
That maybe so. It seems to me that a "European" tournament is much more interesting and marketable than an Anglo French or Celtic one. The former would therefore be dumb not to compromise but at the moment they are generating most of the revenue but being penalised in terms of qualification and opportunity to succeed so the "others" should also compromise.

wme - on 24 Sep 2013
In reply to Frank4short:

During the 6 Nations, the only match I can't watch is England against my home team. Why? I can't afford Sky. The English sold their souls to the media companies, and in doing so selfishly prevented other nationalities watching their own side play.
the sheep - on 24 Sep 2013
In reply to Frank4short:
As an England and tigers fan I would like to believe its due to the disparity in qualification. English and French clubs have to finish at the pinnacle of their leagues. The welsh Irish Scottish and Italian clubs can pretty much anywhere and still be in. Hence if they choose they can rest players for domestic games to concentrate on Europe safe in the knowledge the will get back in again despite league position. Then there is also the money. ;-)
blurty - on 24 Sep 2013
In reply to the sheep:

The ERC who own the Heineken cup tournament didn't take the problem seriously, the English and French clubs gave notice they were pulling out of the competition in May 2011.

From a French or English perspective the Rabo league + Italy are small fish in small ponds, the proceeds were being divvied up disproportionately. The Rabo teams were often resting key players and saving them for the Heineken cup games.

The English and French clubs have decided to take their ball home and have their own game next season, which they are perfectly entitled to do. I predict that the English league wage cap will go next.

It's the inevitable slide towards commercialization of the game.



The ERC are now panicking, too little too late.

It's like McQuaid's hubris, wishful thinking rather than Realpolitik
wme - on 24 Sep 2013
In reply to the sheep:

Don't the welsh qualify for a capital letter anymore?
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M0nkey - on 24 Sep 2013
In reply to blurty:
> (In reply to the sheep)

>
> The English and French clubs have decided to take their ball home and have their own game next season, which they are perfectly entitled to do. I predict that the English league wage cap will go next.
>

Are they entitled to do so though? The reporting on this issue has been all over the place so I am having a hard time following it. From my understanding the French have said they won't permit French teams to enter so at the minute it looks like a European cup of English teams. I saw a quote somewhere that said the French regulations mean that French teams can only participate in approved tournaments and this tournament won't be approved.

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