UKC

Good evening all,

Today, my father and I visited a fairly well known climbing and multi activity centre just outside Brecon in South Wales. The plan was to a do a bit of top roping with my dad who is fairly new to the sport. Upon arriving at the centre, I thought I would be able to register as a member, pay the "admin fee" and entry price and then be allowed to sign in my dad as a novice/guest and belay for him.

I was told by the member of staff that this wasn't the case and in order for either of us to use the centre we would have to be "competent" climbers (ie being able to tie in and demonstrate a safe belay technique). I made it clear that I wasn't planning on climbing and was just going to be belaying my dad and showing him how to tie in and maybe practise belaying by tying the two ends of an in situ-toprope together and teaching him the V/Knee/1,2,3 technique.
The lady at the desk then told me that if I wanted to teach my dad any techniques, whether that be belaying or tying-in, I would have to register with the wall as an instructor and provide them with my SPA/CWA and first aid documentation.

Every other wall I have visited (around 10 or 12 indoor walls across the country) have allowed members to sign in novices and be responsible for them. The only reason that the staff today gave me was "It's for our insurance"

Has anybody else experienced the same situation or can anybody think of a genuine reason that a "competent" climber might not be able to sign in a guest?

Thanks for reading if you got this far, any input appreciated.

Cheers,
RC

In reply to RyanC: Poor show - disgraceful frankly. How frustrating for you. Can't be just insurance.. unless they've got a restrictive policy to keep premiums down. I've taken my son climbing near Brecon before and I don't recall him being competent at tie-in, nor having to demonstrate that he was. How else are folks in Brecon area supposed to get some exposure (!) to indoor climbing?.. Sounds like a money maker to force you (or discourage you) from using their instructors? 3 walls near me permit you to take accountability for novices..

In reply to RyanC: Sounds like they were being pretty OTT about it. However, it would only have taken 10 mins at home to teach your dad how to tie a figure 8 and basic belay technique so that he could demonstrate it to the desk staff (Unless you don't have a rope, that is). That's what I tend to do with new climbers so I don't have hassle taking them to rock gyms.

In reply to Bluebird: Thanks for your reply, Im glad I'm not the only one who thinks that this is poor! I can understand not letting a non member belay if they are obviously inexperienced but not letting them climb whilst being belayed by a competent climber seems like madness to me. They did suggest booking in with an instructor to teach my dad how to belay and tie in. We went for a nice walk instead.

Cheers
RC

In reply to MischaHY: Thanks for your reply - I had thought about teaching my dad before going but decided against it as I was more than happy to not climb any routes and didn't feel that deceiving the wall into thinking that my dad was a competent climber when he isn't was necessary. I would have been happy to show him all the necessary techniques this time and leaving it until next time before tying in myself.

Cheers
RC

In reply to MischaHY:

I agree it's a poor show on the part of the AC and like you I generally teach newbies how to tie in for when we arrive at a gym. What can throw that cunning plan is gyms that produce a book of photos showing incorrect knots and belay techniques and ask the newbie to say what's wrong!

In reply to RyanC:

Farcical, IMHO. I signed my daughter (20) in as a novice at my local wall. Simple rules - she wasn't allowed to belay me, as I was the supervisor, but she could belay someone else if I supervised her. Other than that, off you go. How difficult can it be?

Volenti non fit iniuria and all that.

In reply to RyanC: I'm sorry to hear about your frustration and hope you can take your 'newbies' on the wall soon despite this.

Like yourself I've had no issue with other walls as I've been allowed to sign in as the supervisor for complete newbies, or inexperienced climbers (Awesome Walls, MCC, NorthWestFace and even Rock Over). Only Awesome Walls took issue with one of my beginners as we didn't have a third person present to assist with belay technique should I be up the wall (a common sense attitude).

Of all the times I hit indoor walls I've only ever had a beginner stopped at MCC and even then, only once. The reception staff were insisting that because he was under 18 he needed to do the intro course before he could be signed in with a supervisor despite the fact he'd been with me to MCC before. Safety and conduct were the reasons given but we eventually got the situation resolved and got in.

The amount of questioning or the policy on newbies seems to be very much dictated by the gut-reaction of the staff on-duty. I can honestly say I've never been treated unreasonably and have always had some level of questioning when I sign in a beginner but by the same token it's not been a consistant thing - some staff go through your responsibilities more thoroughly than others. I guess the same is true when making a call on whether a beginner needs centre-training or not before entry.