/ Is the job center redundant?
Does anyone use it? What with gumtree, word of mouth and the vast number of people looking for jobs*, industry specific job search sites and the type of targeted employee searching on (for e.g.) forums like this I think the job center is getting a bad reputation for being completely f*cking useless.
*not necessarily unemployed.
My (smallish) company uses Job Centres. We have no choice. We often end up recruiting from abroad, and if you're going to recruit from outside of the EU you have to demonstrate that you have advertised the position in the UK (fair enough).
Specialist recruitment agencies (the ones that have a chance of finding suitable candidates) do not constitute proof of this. So we have to advertise our jobs at the Job Centre and in the national press such as The Times (Specialist technical press not deemed worthy), even though we have never had a single application from any of those sources.
How does turning up at a job centre to tell them you're actively looking for work prove you're actively looking for work?
> How does turning up at a job centre to tell them you're actively looking for work prove you're actively looking for work?
Never been to one but presumably you show them copies of application forms etc?
> Never been to one but presumably you show them copies of application forms etc?
Not in Scotland. You fill in a form with stuff like "I applied online to Wilkinsons". 6 of them a week and you're OK. Even if you're making up shite and they know it. At this point I'd like to make it clear that I am in full time employment at the moment.
Absolutely. It's also true for people genuinely looking for work
Then in the mid 90s I was marginally involved with similar training schemes, and they were dire. The staff were ignorant of their subject and totally de-motivated, there weren't courses as such, people just turned up as soon as they became unemployed and were supposed to 'self study' - yeah right, it was obvious the only purpose of the 'courses' was to get people off one list - the unemployed - and on to another - 'in training'. It was a sodding, heart breaking disgrace.
Eh? Annoyed me? Of course not, I normally enjoy your posts when I can work out WTF you're on about. ;0P
Got to admit, I was left dumbfounded by the greenboard prayer and wasn't sure if you were joking, that's why I asked.
I agree with your evaluation of Job Centre bureaucracy, but like I said, having no experience of them, I would have thought that showing copies of application forms would be a simple form of proof that a claimant had actually applied for jobs. Maybe Job Centres are mostly there to provide employment... for people who work in Job Centres.
> Then in the mid 90s I was marginally involved with similar training schemes, and they were dire. The staff were ignorant of their subject and totally de-motivated, a sodding, heart breaking disgrace.
Substitute mid 90s for now and there you have it
I wholeheartedly agree with your comments re the 90's. I had 2 spells of unemployment and the 'training' courses that were offered were of extremely limited benefit apart from financially to the training providers! Talk about trying to teach grannies to suck eggs.
I'd been 'marooned' in West Cumbria following a 'corporate reorganisation' and was in the wrong place to look for work within my fairly specialised industry.
The one time I got real help was when the New Deal 50+ was operating, and I was basically subsidised for 12 months to take a poorly paid job but with the prospect of a survivable bonus structure that would grow if I was able to grow the business.
I eventually was able to afford to move to a more 'work friendly' location, that led to my current job, and I'm still working even though I passed state pension age some time ago.
In theory it's a good idea but for the theory to work they need access to access to every job available (unrealistic I know.) The stupid thing is that the website itself is run by Monster, who are a rival in the business really. If you compare the listings on Monster and universal job match then it seems like Monster are screwing them over...
> Then in the mid 90s I was marginally involved with similar training schemes, and they were dire. The staff were ignorant of their subject and totally de-motivated, there weren't courses as such, people just turned up as soon as they became unemployed and were supposed to 'self study' - yeah right, it was obvious the only purpose of the 'courses' was to get people off one list - the unemployed - and on to another - 'in training'. It was a sodding, heart breaking disgrace.
I had a similiar experience early 90's did a few courses (computer skills mainly) but they were too basic to get employment. A few years later though I studied at Canterbury College for a year while on the dole got the right skills and have not been unemployed since. I don't see why the government don't fund courses to give people better skills.
It's actually quite easy to satisfy the fortnightly requirement of 'proof'. Just write I phoned this company sent a CV to another blah blah etc
Found that with these there were a load of other benefits tied to them and that I could live a comfortable if frugal life and could climb when I wanted, including 3 separate weeks in Spain and a three weeks alps trip so far this year.
Job centres are about keeping a load of low grade civil servants who probably couldn't get a real job, off the unemployment register.
My but I have become an old cynic since I started letting all you tax-payers look after me. (I did work for a total of 48 years without getting a single penny (apart from family allowance) from the state (tax-payer).
Yes you get hundreds and hundreds of applications but I enjoy going through them.
The CV's that come through have not been polished and tweaked by an agency either so though it's not a perfect system but it allows me to discard anyone who can not put a decent application together.
Some time around 10 years ago, somebody had the bright idea that the Dept of Employment and the DSS should be brought together under one roof.
Some of you will have noted that in some Job Centres the security contractor's staff outnumber front-line DWP staff. Along with this came a change in approach that is not really useful. Compared to what existed in the darkest days of the 1980s, the entire system is a waste of space and a waste of money. If people are looking for a job, all that will happen is that these people are paid to get in your way.
Let's imagine a situation where you get a hot lead about a job. It's a 150 miles away and you need to get over there and show your face. Get in the car, get on the bus, or whatever. The old Norman Tebbit idea of 'get on your bike'.
Thirty years ago you could travel in search of work and sign-on at the local Job Centre. Not now.
Thirty years ago you could even get money to go job hunting in other EU countries. Not now.
Thirty years ago, not only did they know what degree and diplomas and so were but they had a department for finding jobs for people with HNC or above: PER. Not now.
Thirty years ago, in the Thatcher age of mass industrial destruction and redundancy, you could flexibly seek work and still get benefit, rather than losing 4 weeks money if you weren't glued to the spot. Not now.
Somebody tell me whose version of progress this is?
Whoever it is, they need to lose their job.
> ... I don't see why the government don't fund courses to give people better skills.
Well, that might be connected with the fact that all of the people who have had the job of Secretary of State for Work and Pensions didn't need any qualifications for the job.
They simply needed a friend who was handing out favours.
And if they are in a safe seat, perhaps having carpet-bagged their way there, then maybe they didn't have any qualifications for the job of MP either.
If candidate cannot show that they understand real jobs and real qualification then why should they be elected to parliament where all the key legislative decisions about our work and economy are made?
If your MP needs to understand this stuff then write and make sure he has no excuse.
I had to claim back for interview expenses once and was told I was not allowed to fill in the form myself because I didnt know all the details it needed and bring it back. I had to make an appointment for the man to fill it on for me. I sat there and told the bloke all the details when he asked me them. I didnt even need to look up my NI number. I told him it was a waste of time and money that they made me do that as well as the Jobcentre staff time being wasted. They let me fill in the forms myself after that. I think it shocked him that I knew my own name, address and date of birth!
I wouldnt like their job. It must be so annoying seeing the same faces come in every week to sign on and know they havent made any effort to look for a job, let alone apply for any with a readable CV and letter.
i first signed on just after the election.; I asked for lists of training, thinking I'd do 1st aid or Health & safety. They showed me a file of about 50 A4 pages; all of the courses were crossed our except remedial maths and english.
they had a big area with terminals (and poor software!) that would print stuff on thermal paper (!). Mostly agency minimum wage jobs, or stuff 100 miles away. My jobseeker agreement stated that i had to be able to travel for 2 hours each way, up to 100 miles. I tried claiming for travel expenses for interviews twice and was refused once, 'we lost the paperwork' once.
Similarly, phoning up to say I would be late for signing on was 'fumbled'. I turned up the next day to be tld that I was looking at a anction because I didn't give my national insurance number>? I didn't give my inside leg measurement eaiher. Because they didn't ask for either.
Eventually, I was sent on a compulsory jobseekers course that taught me stuff like, um, how to spell (obviously, my a level english and 20 years report writing skills had evaporated) and not to go to interviews in jeans... Still, it made a lot of money for the private provider that bankrolls the tories...
You turn up every 2 weeks, get patronised, insulted & seen late. you show them some bullsh1t applications written on a form with a box marked 'what did you do'. Then they randomly cut your benefits. useless wasters.
> I wouldnt like their job. It must be so annoying seeing the same faces come in every week to sign on and know ...
... that the government they work for is doing its damnedest to crush them and make sure that their lives are so full of pointless bureaucracy that they'll never get a job.
Broadly in line with what I have already written to our local MP and his friend Mr Clegg.
My limited experience of them is that they provide employment for the otherwise unemployable.
Are you looking for work?
'No I've already been offered a job, I'm just waiting to start it'
Are you looking for work?
'No, I'm just waiting a start date for job I've already been offered'
You must be looking for work to receive JSA Sir, are you looking for work?
Yeah. I've fired off 10 C.V.s only this morning.
> ... 'we lost the paperwork' ...
No surprises there.
Efficient wealth transfer from the poor to the rich.
Long term planning policy (energy, building planning, Health and Safety regulation etc., transport infrastructure)
In fact, I had one of my competitors call me only yesterday offering me a role. They dont even need to interview.
A fair amount of the job centre work is done by the private sector now, particularly long term unemployed programs.
Some achieved the fairly remarkable result of getting less people into work than would be expected if the people hadnt been enrolled into a program at all.
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