UKC

need a bit of advice as this is my first winter, what axes would be recommended i have a shot of some dmm venoms under 100 quid and they look in very good condition or should i spend a little extra on a set of dmm flys (old style ) from climbers shop for £165 , all advice would be appreciated, as i am starting out they would be used for low grades and general walking ,cheers stuart

In reply to squirrel00:

You'd be better off getting a single mountaineering axe for general walking and low grade climbs (I and II gullies and ridges for example). DMM Cirque or BD Raven are both good. Specialised climbing axes like venoms or flys are less comfortable to carry by the head - which you will be doing 95% of the time while walking - and they are harder to plunge and self arrest with, while even harder to effectively brake with should a self arrest fail.

However, the venoms will be a good investment for when you do feel the need for a matched pair of tools when you push your grade. Flys are bomproof too - I've climbed up to V,6 with mine (leashless). Best thing to do is have a swing of some and see which you prefer.

Enjoy your first winter! Do lots of munro bagging or similar with more experienced folk, and get them to teach you how to safely move on snow and ice with and without crampons, cutting steps, basic avalanche sense etc. A two day winter hill skills course with a qualified instructor is a great investment. Read the blue MT Winter Skills book, and also Chance In A Million? - both are very good and the knowledge might save your life one day. Develop your winter hill sense before you push the boat out climbing at your limit and you will enjoy yourself a lot more - getting down from the top of a route is often the hardest part of the day.

In reply to jfmchivall: cheers mate was planning on doing a bmc course at pyb before going out with the local club just to get the basics and not be too much of a liability

In reply to jfmchivall: +1, although if you are intending to do easy climbs with others, 2 tools might be preferred.

There's a couple of options - get a matched pair of slightly longer (than technical axes) straight axes such as DMM Raptor, or Mountain Technology classic axes; or one proper walking axe (e.g. DMM cirque, camp zephyr, grivel airtech) and a second shorter straight shaft hammer for when you are doing routes. Plenty of options for both on ebay.

In reply to squirrel00:

When I started out, I bought myself a pair of matching technical tools, cos I wanted to climb! These got me up easier routes and harder ones too, took one the odd time I hillwalked.

A biggie for me was, how easy is it to get replacement picks in the future, cos you'll need them.

For what it's worth, I don't like Venoms, a mate had them and they were pish!!

Stuart

In reply to squirrel00: This depends on what kind of climbs your first winter will consist of. If you're going straight for ice rather than snow walking you will want a pair of technical tools - I would personally recommend the Black Diamond Vipers.

In reply to squirrel00:
I'd get quarks. They are a great all mountain axe and are my preferred tool for vertical ice. They are modular so satisfy the easily replaced pick req. etc.

I don't think they are great for technical mixed climbing but if you get involved you're really going to want a dedicated pair of axes IMO.

In reply to frqnt: cheers lads , looks like i will have try a few then get mrs squirrel to put my letter into santa for me . as much as like the look of nice shiny technical tools i think they may be wasted on me this yr

In reply to jfmchivall:

id say exactly this.

or id say burn the cash get yourself some nomics, rambos and a cilo pack and start watching lots of will gadd videos. its a pursuit of madness, that will send you broke and risk your life all for the sake of some crazed motivation to suffer in the cold. the stress of paying off the axes wont compare to that of watching the weeks weather forecasts, and the razzle dazzle of the gear companies will get you in the end.
so yes, it is wise to progress sanely - or you can cut to the chase to where you will be sooner or later and accept the eventual outcome.

In reply to squirrel00:

Or save your cash, pm your address and I'll pass on a swag Grivel walking axe for the price of postage.

In reply to ice.solo: that sounds oh so true ,shiny gear death and the wife getting paid out and the kids getting a new daddy

In reply to squirrel00:
A touch pessimistic, he said anything about falling!

In reply to frqnt:mammy said always look on the sh1te side as everything else then smells of roses, another load of crap she instilled into us kids

In reply to squirrel00:
I was in the same boat as you last year.
I bought a pair of Quarks which are great on steep ground but for general winter walking I found them too short.
So I bought a DMM Cirque for days when I'm doing more walking than climbing.

I suppose the message is, the more you get out, the more you'll have an idea of what does and doesn't work for you.

In reply to mrplastique: As you can see, there is more than one approach. A dedicated walking axe and a matched pair of technical tools is the ideal. I guess it all depends how many notes you have/want to spend.

In reply to mrplastique:

^^^This^^^ Exactly my setup as well

In reply to ice.solo: oh and don't forget the ridiculously expensive boots which will be bought new only to find that they come with horrendous heel lift or bashed toes or both and will have to be sold after the first outing.