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Hi Guys - Starting to do some research for buying a new car. Needs to be an estate, preferably a diesel. Have narrowed it down to Audi A4 avant, BMW 3 series touring and a wild card of Alfa 159 estate.
Have heard horror stories of Alfa reliability (Italian build quality) in particular to electrical systems. But IMO the 159 is by far the nicest looking car (inside and out)
Anyone owned a newish 159. Say 2009 onwards?
Have Alfa got the 159 sorted??
Have heard horror stories of Alfa reliability (Italian build quality) in particular to electrical systems. But IMO the 159 is by far the nicest looking car (inside and out)
Anyone owned a newish 159. Say 2009 onwards?
Have Alfa got the 159 sorted??
In reply to drunken monkey: I thought about one but too small for my needs.
far nicer place to be than the audi or bmw though.
The engine (if the 1.9) is also used in the vectra-C and saab 9-3/9-5.
far nicer place to be than the audi or bmw though.
The engine (if the 1.9) is also used in the vectra-C and saab 9-3/9-5.
In reply to drunken monkey:
I've got a 2007 GT, not had any problems.... yet. So not quite your spec but, it's great fun. My view on Alfas is that it's a case of keeping on top of the services rather than waiting till there's a problem as it's then probably too late!
I've got a 2007 GT, not had any problems.... yet. So not quite your spec but, it's great fun. My view on Alfas is that it's a case of keeping on top of the services rather than waiting till there's a problem as it's then probably too late!
In reply to another_mark: oh - the alfa forums are very good and helpful.
In reply to another_mark: Thanks for replies guys. Good to know that it shares the GM 1.9 diesel unit. Should be easy for parts if required.
i've actually got a Saab 9.3 Sportwagon at the moment, but its the 2.8T V6, so its a wee bit thirsty on the gas. Lovely motor though.
i've actually got a Saab 9.3 Sportwagon at the moment, but its the 2.8T V6, so its a wee bit thirsty on the gas. Lovely motor though.
In reply to drunken monkey: My boss has one. It is lovely. It also doesn't depreciate due to the fact they have stopped building them and they are lovely to look at. The only (major) downside is that despite being quoted 40 odd MPG (diesel), in reality he gets a little over 20mpg. Alfa have just shrugged their shoulders about it.
In reply to ByEek: 20mpg!! Surely something wrong there?
In reply to drunken monkey:
Buy the Audi.
My sister works for a car rental company - they won't use Alfa due to reliability issues.
Personally, I can't stand BMW - I can't get the driving position right, apart from anything else. No matter how I try, I can't get the steering wheel at a comfortable distance. Friend of mine reckons the 3-series touring was the most uncomfortable seat ever and gave him awful backache.
Buy the Audi.
My sister works for a car rental company - they won't use Alfa due to reliability issues.
Personally, I can't stand BMW - I can't get the driving position right, apart from anything else. No matter how I try, I can't get the steering wheel at a comfortable distance. Friend of mine reckons the 3-series touring was the most uncomfortable seat ever and gave him awful backache.
In reply to drunken monkey:
oh yes; could add to that if you like.
hmmmm, doubt it; they have been honing that reputation for years.
BMW; RWD+snow? not for me ta.
If it aint broke, it's probably an Audi.
>
> Have heard horror stories of Alfa reliability (Italian build quality) in particular to electrical systems. >
> Have heard horror stories of Alfa reliability (Italian build quality) in particular to electrical systems. >
oh yes; could add to that if you like.
> Have Alfa got the 159 sorted??
hmmmm, doubt it; they have been honing that reputation for years.
BMW; RWD+snow? not for me ta.
If it aint broke, it's probably an Audi.
In reply to daWalt: Please add your experiences. Im interested to hear them.
In reply to drunken monkey: I've had 8 Alfas over the years, never a 159 though. Currently driving a lovely 156 GTA
The 2.4 is the one to go for though. Not the most efficient diesel but a solid engine, good compromise imo. If you only get 20mpg something's broken.
The 159 was a big step up in chassis and ride quality from the 156. If they had made a gta version that's what I'd be driving now...
Alfaowner.com is not a bad place to get opinions from.
The 2.4 is the one to go for though. Not the most efficient diesel but a solid engine, good compromise imo. If you only get 20mpg something's broken.
The 159 was a big step up in chassis and ride quality from the 156. If they had made a gta version that's what I'd be driving now...
Alfaowner.com is not a bad place to get opinions from.
In reply to jezb1: Just to add, Alfas divide opinion, they're a love hate car.
You'll see loads of crap on the internet from people with ill informed opinions.
I like to sum them up as saying they'll cost more to run and maintain but in my experience have been very reliable.
Only once have I been let down, and it was my fault for not replacing a fraying aux belt sooner!
You'll see loads of crap on the internet from people with ill informed opinions.
I like to sum them up as saying they'll cost more to run and maintain but in my experience have been very reliable.
Only once have I been let down, and it was my fault for not replacing a fraying aux belt sooner!
I have had an Alfa for 10 years. Have spent more on it than the car is worth, but love it! Would certainly get another one!
In reply to drunken monkey:
2nd hand experience ‘m afraid, but this isn’t some exaggerated scuttlebutt.
Friend at work had a 156 (sorry, I’d got it confused with the 159). It would occasionally die: as in the entire electrical system suddenly cut out stone dead while driving along.
Garage couldn’t find any fault, seemed to happen completely at random and after another couple of occurrences the thing got part exchanged.
I'm sure this doesn't happen to everyone, but I feel sorry for whoever might have ended up with the thing.....
2nd hand experience ‘m afraid, but this isn’t some exaggerated scuttlebutt.
Friend at work had a 156 (sorry, I’d got it confused with the 159). It would occasionally die: as in the entire electrical system suddenly cut out stone dead while driving along.
Garage couldn’t find any fault, seemed to happen completely at random and after another couple of occurrences the thing got part exchanged.
I'm sure this doesn't happen to everyone, but I feel sorry for whoever might have ended up with the thing.....
In reply to drunken monkey:
Almost certainly, but how many thousands of pounds do you want to throw at something like that?
> (In reply to ByEek) 20mpg!! Surely something wrong there?
Almost certainly, but how many thousands of pounds do you want to throw at something like that?
In reply to ByEek: My 2.8T V6 Saab gets better than that!
Consider Skoda Superb?
In reply to drunken monkey: Subaru Legacy diesel? Not as pretty as the last model, but still a lot to like
In reply to drunken monkey:
I have had a 2006 Alfa 159SW with the 1.9JTD engine for the last 4.5 years and had a 1.8L petrol 156 before that for 6 years.
Both have had a share of mainly electrical problems, but my 159 appears more reliable that the 156, if that is saying much! In contrast, my wife's 2007 Toyota Rav4 appears to need nothing more than annual servicing, far less fun to be in or to drive though.
159 is a heavy car for the size, it feels very planted on the road but is noticeably less nimble than the 156 through the bends. Far better suspension though.
The fuel economy was poor (36mgpg) until I got a "gentle" remap on the ECU a couple of years ago, which improved the fuel economy by about 10%, as well as making the car more sprightly in the lower gears. Current long term average of 6.9 L/110km (~41 mpg) over the last 5000km (mainly urban/rural driving, limited motorway use).
Not the biggest estate by a long shot, but we find it fine for camping trips for a family of 4, annual holidays to France, etc.
Overall I am very happy with the 159SW and it is a lovely car to drive and great to look at (subject to usual "Alfa niggles" disclaimer). FWIW I did hear somewhere that the later 159s were better sorted than my early model.
I am keen to see what the much delayed Alfa Giulia will look like, if it ever appears. May be coming to the natural end of my Alfa relationship unless Fiat Group sort themselves out (then again the next Alfa may be a VW!)
I hope that is some use in making your decision,
Kevin
I have had a 2006 Alfa 159SW with the 1.9JTD engine for the last 4.5 years and had a 1.8L petrol 156 before that for 6 years.
Both have had a share of mainly electrical problems, but my 159 appears more reliable that the 156, if that is saying much! In contrast, my wife's 2007 Toyota Rav4 appears to need nothing more than annual servicing, far less fun to be in or to drive though.
159 is a heavy car for the size, it feels very planted on the road but is noticeably less nimble than the 156 through the bends. Far better suspension though.
The fuel economy was poor (36mgpg) until I got a "gentle" remap on the ECU a couple of years ago, which improved the fuel economy by about 10%, as well as making the car more sprightly in the lower gears. Current long term average of 6.9 L/110km (~41 mpg) over the last 5000km (mainly urban/rural driving, limited motorway use).
Not the biggest estate by a long shot, but we find it fine for camping trips for a family of 4, annual holidays to France, etc.
Overall I am very happy with the 159SW and it is a lovely car to drive and great to look at (subject to usual "Alfa niggles" disclaimer). FWIW I did hear somewhere that the later 159s were better sorted than my early model.
I am keen to see what the much delayed Alfa Giulia will look like, if it ever appears. May be coming to the natural end of my Alfa relationship unless Fiat Group sort themselves out (then again the next Alfa may be a VW!)
I hope that is some use in making your decision,
Kevin
In reply to thedatastream: Totally aware that Skoda's are a great car with all the good points of VAG.
Think its pig ugly though.
Think its pig ugly though.
In reply to iksander: Did look at a Legacy diesel, and have had a few scoobies in my younger days.
I just feel that Subaru's are overpriced for what you get nowadays. Interiors are awful as well.
I just feel that Subaru's are overpriced for what you get nowadays. Interiors are awful as well.
In reply to John Roberts (JR):
Second that - I've had a 2007 GT for the last 2 years - good looking, great to drive and when you look at the alternatives you get an awful lot of car for your money. Agree that keeping on top of the servicing is well worthwhile and they may take more serving than some cars (on the GT for example the cam belt and front wishbones only last 35k miles), but for me it's well worth that trade-off plus there are some good independent garages out there that's will save you some cash vs the main dealers. Don't know much about the 159, but the alfa forums are pretty good and full of genuine enthusiasts - bit of research there should help.
Second that - I've had a 2007 GT for the last 2 years - good looking, great to drive and when you look at the alternatives you get an awful lot of car for your money. Agree that keeping on top of the servicing is well worthwhile and they may take more serving than some cars (on the GT for example the cam belt and front wishbones only last 35k miles), but for me it's well worth that trade-off plus there are some good independent garages out there that's will save you some cash vs the main dealers. Don't know much about the 159, but the alfa forums are pretty good and full of genuine enthusiasts - bit of research there should help.
In reply to drunken monkey: My work mate had an Alpha, we went to drive home one night from work, and it had blacked out windows, when we opened the door the glove compartment was a melted blob on the carpet, the wiring has melted , but luckily no flames. it was written off I think.
( that said another friend had a similar problem with a Renault, and I have had several Renaults, most of them eventually had electrical niggles, to serious problems, so not restricted to Alpha's
I'm sure there are plenty of good stories, I just don't have them.
( that said another friend had a similar problem with a Renault, and I have had several Renaults, most of them eventually had electrical niggles, to serious problems, so not restricted to Alpha's
I'm sure there are plenty of good stories, I just don't have them.
In reply to drunken monkey:
Bit of a digression but a former flatmate had a 147 for a few years. Nothing ever went majorly wrong but he kept finding all these bit of plastic and wiring rolling around the passenger footwell.
Bit of a digression but a former flatmate had a 147 for a few years. Nothing ever went majorly wrong but he kept finding all these bit of plastic and wiring rolling around the passenger footwell.
In reply to drunken monkey: As someone who these days buys cars with his own money as oppose to many years of company cars I don't think I would dare buy an Alfa although I agree they look lovely and have very fond memories of a GTV6 in the 80's
I do have a 3 series touring, it's a 320d M Sport 59 plate, averages just over 50mpg on mixed driving and feels superbly put together.
I can't imagine anyone could not get comfortable in a seat that adjusts for reach, height, backrest rake, tilts in space, adjustable squab length and adjustable side bolsters. Also the steering wheel adjusts for rake and reach. The only downside is once you get it right (which did take a while) you never want anyone else to drive it and move the seat.
As for winter I bought a set of winter wheels and tyres which stops my alloys corroding over winter and means even in the deep snow last winter I never got stopped, as I intend to keep the car for years they were an absolute bargain, far better than a front drive car on normal tyres.
I don't get paid if I don't get to work and I reckon they paid for themselves several times over in the first winter.
I had an Audi A4 avant a few years ago, dullest thing I ever drove and I was glad to see the back of it when I got made redundant.
I would also never buy a car that needs an expensive cambelt change every couple of years at the mileage I do.
I do have a 3 series touring, it's a 320d M Sport 59 plate, averages just over 50mpg on mixed driving and feels superbly put together.
I can't imagine anyone could not get comfortable in a seat that adjusts for reach, height, backrest rake, tilts in space, adjustable squab length and adjustable side bolsters. Also the steering wheel adjusts for rake and reach. The only downside is once you get it right (which did take a while) you never want anyone else to drive it and move the seat.
As for winter I bought a set of winter wheels and tyres which stops my alloys corroding over winter and means even in the deep snow last winter I never got stopped, as I intend to keep the car for years they were an absolute bargain, far better than a front drive car on normal tyres.
I don't get paid if I don't get to work and I reckon they paid for themselves several times over in the first winter.
I had an Audi A4 avant a few years ago, dullest thing I ever drove and I was glad to see the back of it when I got made redundant.
I would also never buy a car that needs an expensive cambelt change every couple of years at the mileage I do.
In reply to drunken monkey:
On Top Gear they really annoy me with all this rubbish about not being a proper petrol head unless you've had an A.L.F.A. Romeo. That's fine for overpaid and under-educated mouths like Jermey Clarkson. Out in the real world, if you really know about cars then you will know not to have one. In my early teens, I lusted after an Alfa Sud. Two things then happened to me that have never happened to Dr Clarkson: I got an education and I grew up.
On Top Gear they really annoy me with all this rubbish about not being a proper petrol head unless you've had an A.L.F.A. Romeo. That's fine for overpaid and under-educated mouths like Jermey Clarkson. Out in the real world, if you really know about cars then you will know not to have one. In my early teens, I lusted after an Alfa Sud. Two things then happened to me that have never happened to Dr Clarkson: I got an education and I grew up.
In reply to Jim Fraser: I'm not over paid or uneducated, but thanks.
If you're not "into cars" you won't get the appeal of an Alfa. It's 2013, BMWs break down just as much as an Alfa.
I secretly like the fact that lots of people don't like them, means the new Alfa 4c will have depreciated enough within a few years for me to be able to afford one.
If you're not "into cars" you won't get the appeal of an Alfa. It's 2013, BMWs break down just as much as an Alfa.
I secretly like the fact that lots of people don't like them, means the new Alfa 4c will have depreciated enough within a few years for me to be able to afford one.
In reply to jezb1: Thanks for all the replies guys - I didnt think a thread about cars would get so much response.
Looking at the general consensus (Online anyway) - It appears that the reliability issues that dogged Alfa for years and years, may finally be getting addressed with the newer cars.
I'd like to test drive one - But its difficult to get a good one In Scotland, let alone in the North Of Scotland. A lot of the nice Alfas Ive seen on autotrader have been located in London etc.
Looking at the general consensus (Online anyway) - It appears that the reliability issues that dogged Alfa for years and years, may finally be getting addressed with the newer cars.
I'd like to test drive one - But its difficult to get a good one In Scotland, let alone in the North Of Scotland. A lot of the nice Alfas Ive seen on autotrader have been located in London etc.
In reply to drunken monkey:
Just to throw in comments on other suggestions:
Skoda Superb - estates only started 3 years ago - I tried for ages but couldn't find a good one under £10K
Legacy diesel - significant engine problems which subaru washed their hands of. I couldn't get a definitive statement about when/if the issues were fixed.
I've just bought a saab 9-5 diesel. Big, comfortable, underrated.
Just to throw in comments on other suggestions:
Skoda Superb - estates only started 3 years ago - I tried for ages but couldn't find a good one under £10K
Legacy diesel - significant engine problems which subaru washed their hands of. I couldn't get a definitive statement about when/if the issues were fixed.
I've just bought a saab 9-5 diesel. Big, comfortable, underrated.
In reply to another_mark: You've made a good point there. Another option is just to get a Saab 9.3 Sportwagon Diesel.
I actually like my current Saab, but the V6 is just a wee bit thirsty.
I actually like my current Saab, but the V6 is just a wee bit thirsty.
In reply to drunken monkey:
I just swapped my alfa 159 . Great car...but unreliable on the electrics...it was only 3 years old.
My tip, make sure you live near the Alfa dealer.I do, and I spent alot of time there.
I just swapped my alfa 159 . Great car...but unreliable on the electrics...it was only 3 years old.
My tip, make sure you live near the Alfa dealer.I do, and I spent alot of time there.
In reply to jezb1:
The years of motor industry design work, stage rally prep and servicing, assorted driver training episodes (mil/civ and on/off road), and driving everything from trail bikes to 8x4 trucks would explain that then.
Try as I might, I can't seem to break one.
> (In reply to Jim Fraser)
>
> If you're not "into cars" you won't get the appeal of an Alfa.
>
> If you're not "into cars" you won't get the appeal of an Alfa.
The years of motor industry design work, stage rally prep and servicing, assorted driver training episodes (mil/civ and on/off road), and driving everything from trail bikes to 8x4 trucks would explain that then.
> ... BMWs break down just as much as ...
Try as I might, I can't seem to break one.
In reply to drunken monkey: Just in case you are in the Edinburgh area... Stewart McLennans garage in Loanhead is teh place for looking after Alfas. I used him through 2 33s in teh 90s, a 156 for a few years in the 2000s and once I'd got my dad enthusiastic he looked after my dads 147 and 156 too. Plus all the other cars the extended family have had in between.
I had a 159 diesel rental in the Dolomites and got normal fuel consumption razzing around mountain passes, so the 20mpg story is a fault... all be it a worrying one if you happened to buy one the same!
I had a 159 diesel rental in the Dolomites and got normal fuel consumption razzing around mountain passes, so the 20mpg story is a fault... all be it a worrying one if you happened to buy one the same!
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