/ NEWS: Wales to Get Scottish Style Right to Roam?
Did you know that there's no legal right to climb on the sea cliffs at Gogarth? Have you ever run into no entry signs in the Welsh hills? Well change may be afoot. The Welsh government is currently reviewing legislation surrounding access, and there's a chance this could result in a Scottish style freedom to roam, say the BMC.
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=68502
Would be great change, not just for climbers and walkers, but also mountain bikers
> Would be great change, not just for climbers and walkers, but also mountain bikers
Maybe or it could mean the demise of many protected rights of way and their associated maintenance
There is an emphasis on community involvement in path maintenance and quite rightly so.
So it is up to the individual to make sure that paths are protected and to get involved locally with their local authority to help keep paths open.
All the best with the land reform.
We should have the right to roam across the whole of the UK.
Glad to see Wales might join Scotland in giving people their right to roam. Typically tory controlled England is left behind again, perhaps ironically given the history and origins of movements like the Kinder mass trespass. Thankful for devolution!
> Glad to see Wales might join Scotland in giving people their right to roam. Typically tory controlled England is left behind again, perhaps ironically given the history and origins of movements like the Kinder mass trespass. Thankful for devolution!
Not so sure it will happen.. Welsh farmers aren't exactly open to people traipsing across their land.. I can't see it to be honest.
Not really on subject but......
Hope it goes through.
It could happen on a greater range of 'undeveloped' land (like the current CROW land), and possibly with a greater range of access?
But I agree, the farming lobby is quite strong in Wales - look at their continuous flirtation with a badger cull before finally deciding to go ahead with vaccination instead. Although their influence is weaker now Plaid Cymru are out of power.
Scotland does indeed have rights of way but they don't come with the same level of protection and maintenance as in England and Wales - hence the efforts put into the core path system. maintenance will depend on budgest but at least there is a benchmark of sorts enshrined in highways law ie a route has to be usable for its classification
But also the Tories are quite strong in Wales.. much stronger than in Scotland. Much of the border strips, where the money often is, and pembrokeshire are often Tory seats.
This is good news and I hope it opens up a bigger conversation on landownership etc.
I may be wrong but is "right to roam" not a term particular to England and SOAC, arising from land reform, is the Scottish version?
> This is good news and I hope it opens up a bigger conversation on landownership etc.
why? this is wales and england not scotland?
1) whats it to you..
2) different landscapes..
TBh I think CRoW can be refined, improved, but huge scale changes.. I don't think are needed. We need to sort out rivers, coasts etc.. but the mountains I think CRoW is 90% there.
Rights of Way north of the border haven't needed the same level of protection precisely because of Freedom to Roam. ROW signs always seemed out of place to me in the Scottish mountains. No point in being directed down a corridor when one can walk where one pleases.
Isn't there a big gap between the mountains and the rivers and coasts? We had a week in Cumbria not long ago, and a lot of the walking we did there is on low-level paths which are often on farm land, which may or may not be designated Access land. Coming from somewhere where we knew we could go where we wanted within the Scottish Outdoor Access Code, we were very aware that landowners and farmers might have a very different understanding if we went significantly off the signposted paths.
Why do I hope it opens up a conversation? So that we can examine issues around ownership, controlling interests, community and environmental health etc, that is why.
Not being funny but you are most probably going independant by the time this comes through. You are quite keen that Scottish decisions are made by Scots.. this should be for England and Wales.
I don't think there are any issues.. we have an inheritance system. Mess with that and we upset everyone in the UK.. not just landowners.
"We" being people interested. Are you going to pour over every word I write on an informal climbing forum and dissect it for holes? I am speaking in general terms which I think is pretty obvious to most.
Land reform in Scotland and access reform in England and Wales are quite different issues, though, aren't they? This is an obvious oversimplification in many ways, but you could say that land reform in Scotland is largely about empowering local communities over absentee landlords, whereas access reform in England and Wales is often about empowering recreational users over local landowners.
I just looked for england and wales and couldn't get figures, but I feel that local landownership is far more common and for government to intervene on that will uproot our whole society.
In fact, I suspect trying to roll access into discussions about land ownership would prevent anything being done on either of the issues. There's some chance of making progress with access on its own, but this would be lost if it were tied to anything relating to ownership. Definitely much more sensible to keep the two issues separate.
> I just looked for england and wales and couldn't get figures, but I feel that local landownership is far more common and for government to intervene on that will uproot our whole society.
The nature of the land is very different as well - the Highlands have low agricultural productivity, whereas much of the land in England and Wales has a much higher agricultural value and ownership issues are very different.
I'm just saying it would be good to explore the issue - that's all. Why this seems to have got your juice flowing so freely I don't know.
In the rest of the UK we don't have such a great issue as far as I know.
There are some estates but not the same extent.
As Tony says I think including any debate will get landowners backs up and kill this in an instant. Coastal access is a huge issue still, same with rivers. I think we can make gains there.
"You are quite keen that Scottish decisions are made by Scots.. this should be for England and Wales." Sorry, that did make me laugh. For decades Scottish access policy was formed in Westminster. We had freedom to roam for decades before Devolution, but an active policy of disinformation tried to prevent it ever becoming the accepted norm. Thanks to the efforts of many across the UK it's now enshrined in law in Scotland.
I hope you get the same freedoms in England and Wales, but I suspect you will find out, like the Scots did, just how duplicitous big landowners can be.
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