UKC

I need some advice on which tablet to buy. I'm rather old and not very familiar with these things and there's a lot of choices out there
I want one mainly to use to browse the net, with 3G so I can use it on the move. I'd like to have maps on it and a GPS function to use in a car and maybe on paths. Also have books on it. Transfer pictures from a camera. No games. Some music.
I'm used to using MS Windows stuff. But I find Apple - iTunes for instance difficult to use. Some people tell me to get an I pad others say not.
We're off to Nepal for a couple weeks and think one would be useful out there as well.

Give me your suggestions guys.

Thanks

In reply to John Workman: Get an iPad, it doesn't have to be the latest, but it's fool proof technology, and Apple will even show you how to use your iPad after you've bought it.

In reply to John Workman:

If you want something that works like you expect straight out the box then I'm afraid it has to be an iPad.

In reply to John Workman:

iPad mini will probably be the best thing for you, especially if you want to take it out and about . If you want 3G you'll need a SIM and a contract to go with it. I think 3 provide the best 3G coverage but I could be wrong on that. For music I use spotify rather than iTunes (although you can sync it with iTunes) however that does come at an additional cost of £10 per month if you want to save offline playlists, although Vodafone seem to be doing deals that mean you get Sky Go or Spotify with the contract.

In reply to John Workman:

From what you say in your opening post I take it you don't own a smartphone ?

In reply to John Workman:

http://tinyurl.com/oovydep

In reply to John Workman: If I remember correctly you're only about as old as me ( give or take a year or two.)

I got one of these thingys for keeping in touch with the office on my 6 week holiday in Canada this year. http://www.amazon.co.uk/CAMBRIDGE-SCIENCES-StarPAD-Android-JELLYBEAN/dp/B00... Brilliant little beast for not a lot of money - however it does not have 3g, ( I believe the 3g model is out of stock at the meoment) and whilst is is GPS enabled and had Google Maps, unless you've got a decent wi-fi connection it's of limited use whilst travelling. I found that using my Samsung Galaxy Ace 2 Smartphone was just as useful for finding where I was.

Regards

Alan

In reply to Lord of Starkness:

For my money, from what you've said, a Surface tablet is a no brainer. Good browsing and general functionality. Not as many apps available as for iPad and Android but, then again, how many do you need? The two biggest plusses as far as I'm concerned though, are access to Office (Word, Excel, Powerpoint etc.) and the ability to plug in a standard USB. Ipads, Kindle Fires etc are great of course, but as my professional world revolves around Microsoft software, other operating systems eventually become a hindrance for me.

In reply to DaveHK:

Really? Hqvenyou tried ALL the other tablets?

In reply to timjones:

The one everyone is talking about as being the best value (and now probably best anyway) is the Google Nexus 7.

In reply to John Workman: I have a nexus 7 which has been great, straight out of the box.

In reply to John Workman:
Some relevant discussion here:

www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=569388&v=1

If you have limited computer literacy then I'd say the iPad is the best choice, but if you know your way around a PC then the Nexus 7 beats it on several fronts.

Don't get a Surface tablet unless you want to pay through the nose for a Surface Pro 2, which is the only decent model. Windows RT is genuinely awful and makes Windows 8 look good in comparison.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I have a nexus 7 (using it at the moment to type this, actually the only thing I really use my laptop for now it's making tunes) great straight out the box

In reply to lost1977:

Agree. If you want a smaller (7in) tablet the Nexus 7 is excellent.

Neil

In reply to Neil Williams:

also lots of 1st gen ones going at very good prices so even the 32gb is good value

In reply to John Workman:

John. You aren't that old! I'm only a few years behind.

I use an iPad. It's very intuitive and easy to learn. iTunes is a bit crap but ok once you get used to it.

Whichever one you choose will do the job. Apple products look great and have a lovely tactile element that the others can't come close to. But they are expensive. Once you get familiar with one make it's difficult to move to another so both Nexus and iPads will be great.

For books forget a tablet. Short battery life and looking at an illuminated screen make them pretty awful. Buy a £70 Kindle. The tablet choice is very much a personal decision but please buy a Kindle (or other e reader) for books.

In reply to estivoautumnal:

I find that the high resolution screen on the Nexus and iPad is fine for reading books, personally.

Neil

In reply to Neil Williams:

It's not so much the resolution but looking at an illuminated screen that I don't like. The Kindle doesn't strain the eyes.

In reply to John Workman: I find the i_-pad complicated and annoying. Nexus and Galaxy tab less so.

In reply to Only a hill:


I'm interested to know your reasons for saying this, as I completely disagree. Have you actually owned and used one for any length of time other than reading reviews by Appleheads? I do have one. I also have an iPad and a Kindle Fire HD (yes, I spend far too much on gadgets) and I'm afraid they feel like toys in comparison. Whilst great for surfing the web or playing Angry Birds, if ever I actually need do a real task on a tablet it's the Surface every time.

You are correct when you say the RT version is not as powerful as the full Pro version. However, we're talking about a tablet here. RT is fine and, in my opinion, the Pro could even be viewed as a little over-spec'd. Battery life and boot-up time suffer as a result. RT is not a desktop but is a nice compromise (ie. a tablet with a lot of useful desktop features). Again, the facility to plug in a USB stick or create/modify Office docs are killer features for me.

The price is not too extortionate either. £279 for the basic model which is slightly cheaper than the basic iPad (I know the mini iPad is a bit less). Admittedly, still quite a bit dearer than Kindle, Galaxy etc but it does do loads more. Depends what you need.

On a side note. Enjoyed your book.

In reply to John Workman: I've got a Nexus 7 which is great, but based on what you've said I would go for a Samsung device with a memory card slot.

I used Navigator for Android as GPS in Spain, worked well and was free.

In reply to Gman:

I don't own one, but my day job involves working with tablets and smartphones so I've used Windows RT fairly extensively.

I was really excited when the Surface was announced; I thought it would be the ultimate tablet. It's great that you love yours, and I think they have huge potential, I just think the current implementation falls short for the majority of customers.

Why is that? Windows RT can't run traditional Windows apps, only apps in the store, which is abysmal. I used to have a Windows Phone and the app store was pretty bad for that as well, but it's even worse for RT. Most of the apps are repackaged web views and the (very few) good quality apps are nowhere near as fully-featured as the Android or iOS equivalents. Stability is also an issue all too often with RT apps.

If the app store was up to scratch then the Surface tablets would be formidable, now that the second generation has fixed the hardware issues of the first models. Apps aren't important to everyone but most people need the essentials and there isn't even any way to access your Google Calendar on RT (that I know of). Plenty of other tablet fundamentals are also missing, and in the eyes of most customers that's a big deal.

For example, I couldn't use RT because all of the Metro text and HTML editors are abysmally bad (I've tried them all).

Rumour has it that Microsoft is planning to merge RT and Windows Phone, which might bring some cohesion to the platform. I don't think it's ready for prime time just yet but maybe in a year or two it will start to come into its own. Right now most customers will simply invest their money in a more mature platform with more high quality apps.


That's great, thanks If you get the chance I'd appreciate an Amazon review!

In reply to estivoautumnal:

It's personal preference really ... studies have shown that the resolution, not the glare, is in fact the most important aspect in eye strain. I now find it equally comfortable reading on my Nexus 7 or my Kindle.

In reply to Only a hill: Studies? The simple fact is that I can read my Kindle comfortably all day, but whenever I work at a computer (with 24inch monitor) or use a tablet, I like to take regular breaks.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
Again it's down to personal preference. Not everyone is the same.

In reply to Only a hill: I imagine the Kindle has pretty poor resolution compared to modern tablets and monitors, and mine is an old one. Plenty of people have posted on Kindle threads, making the point about eye strain being less on a Kindle, so I'm not sure these studies are giving an accurate result. Maybe they just compare tablets against other tablets? Did they include Kindles?

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
I think there have been several studies, but in the end it's all very subjective. Here's one of the studies I saw last year:

http://www.the-digital-reader.com/2012/10/02/new-study-suggests-e-ink-is-no...

There can be no denying that eink is better than all but the very latest backlit displays in direct sunlight.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

I don't have a Kindle, but read Kindle books on my mobile, where I have it set to a sepia background. I find this much less of a strain than black on white, and more readable than white on black.

As a comparison, at work I use CAD programmes that usually run 'colours on black', expect when printing out the formal contract drawings, when it becomes 'black (or colours) on white'. When I'm drawing on a white background it's definitely more stressful on the eyes.

In reply to estivoautumnal:

I've got a kindle but the poor thing is gathering dust since I got the iPad. I pretty much read all my ebooks on the iPad now. I usually have the screen dimmed and I find that reading with the settings on white text with a black background very easy on my eyes It also means I can read at night without annoying the wife by having the light on

In reply to Toby S:
I must admit I use my Kindle a lot less now I have a Nexus 7. My first ereader was a Palm Zire 31 back in 2005 so everything is wonderful compared to that

In reply to John Workman:

The only advice that I can offer is that you either buy an iPad or an Android Tablet of equal or better spec.

What ever you do, I suggest that you do not buy a cheap as chips Tablet because you will be seriously disappointed with you user experience and what it can do.

You can get crap Android Tablets and you can get great Android Tablets but you don't get crap Apple iPads.

If you choose an Android product then get the best in the class that you can afford. Choose one with as much RAM as possible and the fastest processor as possible. They do NOT upgrade.

And if you can, choose a company that puts as little bloat into the android operating system as possible. Android operating system updates come around quite quickly and if you choose a product that is heavily customised to sell there apps or products, then it will be less likely that they will offer operating system updates, if at all.

Almost two years ago, I bought an ASUS Tablet. Going by today's Tablets, it has a low spec. However ASUS tries to keep their Android operating systems as close to the original Google Android operating system as possible that they can quickly push through system updates.

I'm being that there are very few bits of android kit, that are almost two years old, and have Jelly Bean. 4.2.

Not sure if My Tablet will get Kit-kat, but my Android phone will.

In reply to The Lemming:

I've just bought one of these on fleabay: 360685446833

Nexus 7, £119, seems pretty good value, it's not the new model but it is 32gb & 3g.

they still have some left

In reply to blurty:
The 1st generation Nexus 7 is still perfectly good - I have one and it has decent performance, although will occasionally lag when browsing with Chrome. I have actually installed the Opera Mini web browser which speeds things up considerably.

In reply to John Workman:

Both Windows and Apple tablets tend to be way overpriced for what they are and often offer fewer features too. For instance iPads don't have a micro SD card slot which allows unlimited storage using micro SD cards which are now very cheap (£18 for a 32Gb card). It seems like Apple does this deliberately so they can add a huge surcharge to iPads with more storage. With computers I've always found that eventually you need more storage. For me I plan on using it as an mp3 player for music, audio books and podcasts so being able to expand the storage is an important consideration.




All tablets tend to come packed with various kinds of malware though I think Apple are probably the worst and most difficult to remove. (A friend of friend lost hundreds of pounds though this on an iPad earlier this year).

I don't rate Google as any better than Apple or Microsoft but their OS has the one advantage that it is open source and thus problems of malware can be fixed by others easily and shared amongst the community. My tablet came with a Google search bar permanently affixed to the desktop that could not be removed using the various options available. Third party software however now allows me to turn this on and off (and a lot else besides).

Bear in mind you don't need 3G for map reading on the go. It's possible to download a map of the entire country for free (about 2Gbs) using an Open Street Map app which you can then use whether you have an internet connection or not. (you can download just the parts you want too or even all of Europe I believe).

I just bought a tablet for my son.

I was thinking of the Google Nexus 7 primarily because it is well used and thus well supported by the community. The new version also has a very hi res screen - though I'm unconvinced how useful this is. The downsides are no micro SD card and high price. Eventually I went for Hisense Sero 7 which is similar but overall better as far as I can see. It has similar specs plus a 32Gb internal memory plus micro SD card. It has lower res screen - same as the old Nexus 7 - and less RAM, though probably not needed for the lower res screen. It's also about half the price.

http://www.ebuyer.com/521621-hisense-sero-7-pro-32gb-tablet-m470bse

For map reading though you might be better with a bigger screen (though then you do of course have a more bulky item) It's always a compromise.

In reply to Only a hill:


There are also reports - admittedly on an apple based site - that the original Nexus 7 used really cheap, crap solid state disks which are getting destroyed by not being used correctly by the software.

For non-techys it is worth knowing that Solid State Disks - which all smart phones, tablets and now some computers use - have a very limited number of writes on each part of the disk before they fail. It's in the millions, or even hundreds of millions, but it is there, and it will bite eventually.

And the early Nexus 7 is rumoured to not be using it's SSD particularly effectively. So they are cheap second hand because a component is on the verge of failing, and people are getting rid of them because they have heard of this, and are selling up before they die completely.

Now, I don't know what the real state of play is, and I don't know whether these reports have been refuted or not

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Is-cheap-memory-killing-off-Google-Nexus-7-u...


http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/18/googles-nexus-7-tablets-dying-ear...


So, if you recommend a first gen Nexus 7 to anyone, then you ought to be aware of these reported problems, which may or may not be real.

In reply to Dominion:
Android 4.3 introduced TRIM support which has removed this issue permanently. It's no longer a concern.

In reply to Only a hill:
I should add, you're quite right that all solid state drives eventually fail, but with proper wear levelling (and TRIM support active) it won't be a problem for many years.

In reply to Only a hill:

So a nexus 7 that is pre-4.3 is to be avoided, then?

Or you have to know how to root it, and update it to 4.3?

In reply to Dominion:

No as all Nexus 7 units can be upgraded to 4.3 over the air immediately - no rooting required. It was only an issue before 4.3 was released by Google.

In reply to Only a hill:

OK, so if you buy an early Nexus 7 that didn't have 4.3 installed when it was supplied, and was f*cking it's disk because it didn't deal with disk writes correctly, how do you know it's disk is going to be OK?


I take your point that the problem has been identified and corrected, but early ones may already have fubar disks...

ie cheap ones being sold on eBay...

In reply to Dominion:


My dad's first gen Nexus 7 is going strong and its on 4.2. The SSD problem was fixed with software updates during last year, or so I am lead to believe from reviews of the issue. My dad uses his every day and it still zooms through with no hint of lag. I even had a play with it today and can confirm this.

I may treat myself to a 7" tablet this Christmas and I can't make my mind up between the new Nexus 7 or the Tesco Hudl. My next-door neighbour got a Tesco jobbie on my recommendation, and it really is as good as the reviews say it is.

The 7" Tablet market is all but sewn up with the Nexus 7 however the 10" Tablet market is wide open to Brand Loyalty with no outright winner, Apple or Android.

In reply to Dominion:
To be honest it's impossible to tell (as far as I know), but I would be very surprised that any drives have been ruined permanently. All the issues I've heard of can be temporarily fixed by a factory reset, even without the 4.3 update and TRIM support. It's entirely down to software and I certainly haven't heard of any permanent hardware issues. I could be wrong but we sell and service Nexus 7s at our store and we haven't had a single one returned with hardware issues relating to the internal storage.

In reply to The Lemming:

Worth pointing out that Google shop out the manufacture of the different Nexus's to different manufacturers, and that they are made to a price point.


which is the real story behind the possible problem with the original nexus 7

Nexus 10s are made by another manufacture. But they may also use the same components.

It's ironic that Apple - who have major lawsuits in court both as defendant and prosecution with Samsung - have Samsung making some of their products...


Myself, I'd rather have an Android than be tied into Apple's far more proprietary locked down system - quite apart from the significant cost issue - but I dismissed the Nexus 7 from start off because it does not have a SDCard slot. Really, that is incredibly limiting in the way in which you can use it. Yes, I would expect that from Apple, but for an Android device, what are they playing at?


PS our company had one of the early Nexus / google phones, the G1

If you typed "reboot" in a text message you were trying to send to someone, the phone would reboot...

http://gizmodo.com/5080688/android-bug-reboots-phone-every-time-you-type-re...


http://www.zdnet.com/blog/burnette/worst-bug-ever/680


those were the days. I laughed so hard when I found that out. And proved it...

Nowadays, you have to root your phone, install superuser, go into a terminal session and do

sudo reboot

to do that, rather than just typed reboot in a txt message,..

In reply to Only a hill:


Fair enough.

I think SSD disks are getting there, but that was a fairly major faux pas from a major manufacturer, to be honest.

And, as I've just said, I'd far rather use an android device than Apple one, even if they are made in the same factory...

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I'd agree with that as a happy Nexus owner, it even works as you'd expect straight out of the box

In reply to Dominion:


I know what you mean, however the Tesco Hudl has a micro SD slot, but it isn't exactly well known for hardware compared to tins of beans.

As for my own Tablet which is made by ASUS, has a removable keyboard with built in battery, micro HDMI, micro SD, full size SD slot and a whopping 32Gb internal storage. If I add a 32Gb micro SD and 32Gb SD then I can have 96Gb storage. And that's not including what ever external Hard drive that I may wish to add.

But then how is a company going to sell cloud storage with storage options that good?

My almost two year old Tablet still cuts the mustard, but then so does my Raspbery Pi and Android USB-stick.

I'd say that all the Tablets on the market can hold their own for what they are intended for which is shopping, listening to music and watching movies.

In reply to The Lemming:


yes, exactly.

The "tablet" is just a front end to selling the branded product. it's the gateway to the "app store" where the proprietor takes a 30% cut of every sale...

Same with google, same with Amazon, same with Apple etc etc ..

It's the new model, and with google, I suppose they also scavenge your data in order to sell targeted advertising to you - although I would also assume exactly the same for Apple and Kindle (etc)

At least with Android you can build your own OS from scratch and install it on your device, reasonably easily...

In reply to Dominion:
Android won't be open source for much longer, though. Google is in the process of locking it down and I'd be willing to bet that in two years it will be as closed and proprietary as iOS. Google has been planning this move for years - witness the strategic skirmishes with Samsung. Samsung will ditch Android and Google will make Android their own closed system.

In reply to Only a hill:
Here's one source
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iron-grip-on-android-control...

In reply to Dominion:


It was never buggering up the disk. The problem was a slow down of the drive itself, and not physical damage.

The controller was keeping tabs on data that had in effect already been deleted, so "seek" times took longer. FSTRIM runs periodically and tells the controller to clear out the data once it's been deleted, speeding up drive access once it's done it's job.

In reply to Only a hill:

That will only make it more like Windows in that there will still be a choice of hardware platforms, unlike iOS.

Neil

In reply to Neil Williams:
Agreed. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing for consumers, only worth being aware that Google is methodically closing down Android and making it their own.

In reply to Only a hill:

Interesting article but I can't see a problem as an end user. Google has done a lot of work to get Android to where it is now. So why would it want its hard work forked?

If Linux wasn't as fragmented with more forks and distro's than I have had hot dinners then maybe Microsoft would not be as dominant as it is today.

But then, I'm a punter and not a IT professional.

In reply to Only a hill:


Maybe although in that article you linked to it sounded more like it was Google's apps that were being closed, at least for now.

If that does happen though in two years there will also be the Firefox OS and Ubuntu touch, both of which will probably spawn alternative builds too. Also the existing Android could be developed by the community of open source developers - in fact that's already happened with the various non-stock versions which are superior to Google's versions. Cyanogenmod has a pretty big following is available for a fairly wide range popular tablets, particularly the really locked down tablets like the Amazon Swindles and Fires and Barnes and Noble's Nooks.

In reply to Only a hill:

How much?
What they have changed is the emphasis on Play Services and the ability to update them independent of the main OS updates. At least in part probably due to them being pissed off at the delays in rolling out updates to those apps. This does mean that certain apps are no longer being updated due the the duplication in play services. However the core hasnt been touched.

In reply to John Workman: curve ball alert!
BlackBerry playbook. Tough mo fo 7incher, does everything, 90 quid second hand

In reply to John Workman: "What Tablet should I buy?" you need to find out what's wrong with you first. Go and see a doctor.

In reply to John Workman: just to move away from the geeks for a minute, I bought a cheap as chips Hudl from Tesco and it's great. I have used iPads and other smartphones and tablets but I was also going travelling and didn't want like the idea of £ 400 worth of iPad being nicked. £100 worth of Hudl is a lot easier to handle in my head! !
And it turned out to be a good move. It's great. For the price it's exceptional. And that coming from someone who uses apple products every day, for work and personal stuff. I love Macs and will never buy a PC but for day to day, chucking in a bag, taking on the train, travelling and general use, don't get too caught up in the hype. The Androids are good.And the Hudl is surprisingly good.
Co:

In reply to dissonance:

The core hasn't been touched too much yet, but it has been noticed that "Google Services" now include far more of the operating system (in Android 4.3 and 4.4) than they did in previous versions.

It's pretty obvious to me what Google's long-term strategy is: their Play Store apps and services act as a Trojan horse to take control of Android. This is a strategy they are also deploying with Chrome.

In reply to CarolineMc:

Not convinced by the hurl my mum has one so I've used it quite a bit setting it up for her, although it does have some good features it feels horrible compared to my nexus (heavy, blocky plastic feel with a plastic screen)

In reply to lost1977:

The Hudl is virtually half the price of a Nexus 7 but most importantly, it works very well.

If cost is not an issue then by all means get a Nexus. If budgets are a driving factor, then get a Hudl. The only problem is that the Hudl has only been for sale for a month or so and we don't know what it will perform like over the next 12 months.

The Nexus has performed quite well and has ironed out some of the problems. We just have to wait and see if Tesco will do the same with its 'Golden Goose' of a product.

I like and have used both products. at the moment, its a two horse race for the 7 inch tablet market. Why would you spend so much on an iPad Mini when the competition is superior?

In reply to The Lemming:

The hudl does work well but the feel is very off putting for me and I know that if I had one I wouldn't be using it anywhere near as much (my laptop is almost redundant).

In reply to lost1977:

As for the price difference my factory grade refurbished nexus 32gb cost me about £20 more than a new hudl. Given the choice I wouldn't change my mind

In reply to The Lemming:


Does the Nexus have a card slot? I don't think so... The Hudl has a 32GB micro SD slot.

I have a Hudl. The screen is very clear, with good contrast. The GPS works well, and tracked 13 satellites (so it's more than a 12-channel chipset...), and works beautifully with OruxMaps and Locus. I've had no issues so far with software stability. One issue I have had (which the iPad 2 also has) is that if I connect it to my WinXP PC, the Hudl is recognised, but the other USB disks disappear. I expect some firmware upgrade should fix.

I'm very happy with it so far, but I'm getting a replacement because the touch screen is intermittent. I'm assuming it's just my luck to get a duffer, as I found only one other report on the internet. Once I got past the 'have you downloaded the latest Google keyboard/have you pressed the reset button/have you done a factory reset'*, Tesco offered a replacement without much fuss. There are process issues with their helpdesk/replacement service that I'll be giving them feedback on, but I'm a fussy git...

* the guy did seem to know his stuff, though, and told me about how to access the onboard diagnostic suite (iPad doesn't seem to have), and that led me to finding out how to enable Developer Options...

In reply to John Workman: I've been wondering what tablet to buy as a present. Too much tech talk on this thread for me. Didn't help.

In reply to aln:

If you want a 7 inch Tablet then you have two options:

Nexus 7, new or old version

Tesco Hudl £120 or £60 + Tesco vouchers worth £60. This makes the Hudl an even better bargain at potentially £60.

If you are after a 10 inch Tablet then the options are not as straight forward and more varied.

In reply to John Workman:

I would suggest Viagra..

The best tablet you will ever buy..