UKC

I have a water radiator central heating system. It's run off a gas boiler which I can switch on or off as I like. Gas is expensive. Do I save money by turning off some radiators and running it when I feel cold? Or by going full blast on all radiators and running it for less time. Or run on a lower heat with all radiators for longer?

In reply to MikeTS:

Turn off the radiators you don't need to have on? My flat has 7 big radiators, I don't need 4 of them - I can with the flat keep the flat plenty warm enough with 3 of them permanently switched off.

In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

Would this reduce the gas usage cos it burns continuously with what looks like a constant flame?

In reply to MikeTS:

But it will shut down when the rads get up to a set temp does it not? Of course a small sized boiler will run for longer than an oversized one.

In reply to Climbing Pieman:



The manual says it does when it reaches the preset temp. It's a flow system and doesn't seem to have much (any?) water storage. But I've never seen the flame shut down (but again, I don't spend my life watching it!)

In reply to MikeTS:

Probably more economical to keep your place at a constant temperature, even if lower, rather than letting your place get really cold and then having to keep heating it up.

In reply to MikeTS:

Could be an undersized boiler for the system/home so maybe off very little, or heat is just disappearing too quick for the boiler!

To your original questions - Alot depends on how well insulated your home is, or not, the size of boiler in relation to radiators and insulation level and the needs of the home and it's users. No point in having all rads on if the heat is just disappearing; same with a system on a lower heat if the heat can't be retained efficiently.
Anyway, heating only what rooms you need to whatever level is better on gas used. All radiators really need TRVs provided your boiler/system setup allows or can cope with all radiators with values. Also a master control thermostat control helps a lot to limit unnecessary gas useage especially where sun has a big effect on temp in home.
My system is currently on 24/7 but fully controlled by an electronic timed master thermostat (up to six different temp settings over a day) initially then individual TRVs on radiators, so different rooms are only heated to the temp I want, when I need.

In reply to Climbing Pieman:

Thx for your time. No TRVs see this for saying they are not needed http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertyadvice/jeffhowell/8250191/Home-...

I don't have a house thermostat on the grounds that it can't tell if I'm active or not, have a sweater on or not, or am tucked up under my warm doona!

House is moderately well insulated, I have to work more on draught proofing.

I suspect that the boiler is underpowered for the space

thx again

In reply to MikeTS:

What size is your boiler, and what size house?

Is it modern?

Does it have any sort of temperature control? If not a room stat or some TRVs might be a good idea?

In reply to marsbar:


Don't know, I think it may not even have storage since the flame is activated by water passing over it

and what size house?

About 1400 sq ft, a flat on the ground floor, high ceilings, 3 sides with sindows


old and made of stone



Thermostat on boiler, no TRVs

In reply to MikeTS:

Seen that before and ...
I do not fully agree with that article! There will be others along shortly no doubt to correct me also, but I do not care !
Of course in the ideal world and ideal home with a meticulously planned heating system, there would be no need for TRVs due to proper ideal sizing of rads for the room based on it's specific thermal properties and planned useage, and with specific balancing of all rads so that the whole home is heated to perfection and all goes off at once. Yes they can be confused, but why would I want to heat say a bedroom higher than I want which can easily happen without TRVs? Why would I want my kitchen to get far hotter than needed when I start cooking, or when the sun is shining? The TRVs allow certain rooms to opt out of the heating when up to the set temp. As for TRVs in the room with the master thermostat, again I disagree. With my system it allows other rooms to be temporarily heated higher than normal without heating the room with the thermostat. Also it allows the rads to progressively shut down, and open up, so avoid temp spikes, and allow a slower rise in temp when it nears the main stat temp setting, that without would cause a main thermostat to constantly switch on and off.
Notwithstanding the experts rights and wrongs of TRV use, what I have experienced over years is with my current setup, I have significantly lower bills than most of my neighbours in identically built houses, who do not have a master thermostat, don't use TVRs, and/or are very selective in running their hearing. One case I am £30/mth lower, and they don't even have the shower run off the gas system which I do. I'll stick to my setup! Oh and BTW I also have a thermal hot water store in the pumped system so that radiators can be heated a bit before the boiler needs to fire up and this allows small adjustments to be made economically, as well as instant heat in rads when it's turned on. None of this waiting an hour to get proper heat to a rad in winter!

I have an antiquated boiler system, with a gas boiler downstairs and a hot water tank upstairs (and an immersion heater which I don't use). There is a clockwork gizmo attached to a three-way valve and a central heating pump to do the timed heating. There is of course no central thermostat (although there is a TRV connected to the hot water tank for reasons I fail to understand...)

Currently I have the heating on 24 hours a day, but the TRVs are all set low (actually for some reason stupidly low - well below the snowflake symbol - or everything gets far too hot). I have finally just about got the whole house at a pleasant temperature which is pretty constant.

In reply to MikeTS:


Don't turn it on, or use it minimally, buy a oil heated radiator and simply heat one room.

or

Spend as little time as possible in your house

or

Downsize to a smaller property/ flat

In reply to MikeTS:

Might be worthwhile speaking to your gas supplier - I bet they have an energy efficiency team of some sort and if they can't speak to you directly, they can probably send you some information.

In reply to MikeTS:

I did an experiment last winter. I ran the heating continuously from October-April controlled only by two master thermostats (dual zone) set high (19-20C) and TRV's on everything. Then compared the result with how much it cost during the previous winter doing the only-turn-on-when-bl**dy-freezing method.

Basically no difference in gas used. Hence, thank you very much, I'll be warm and toasty 24/7.

However this kind of thing is home specific. We have a big 1930's brick detached with drafts everywhere (I think people thought they were character-building).

Hence when the heating turns off the AIR in the whole house cools fast. The fabric, however (all brick internally and out), acts like a giant storage heater and cools slowly. However once its cold it takes forever (24 hours) to heat up again.

Your mileage may vary. I suspect a new-build with lots of insulation but generally lightweight construction will perform totally different to our place.

In reply to John_Hat:

I live in a similar property (although a semi) and also find it takes an age to heat through from cold...even with a new boiler, system flush plus two new rads. I'm going to try your method for a month and take see how it goes.

In reply to Queenie:

Good luck As a result of this thread I've actually decided to run an experiment and turn off downstairs at night. Downstairs has some huge radiators and also most of our time in the morning is spent in the Kitchen, which is more or less a new build (its mainly extension, with cavity insulation etc). Hence it should heat up fast...

Shall see how the house behaves

I strongly suspect downstairs will be a fridge tomorrow morning, but we shall see....

In reply to John_Hat:

Why don't you fix the drafts?

I've recently bought and moved into a modern "passive house" designed property. Heating requirements are next to nothing - I can almost not bother with heating at all currently. Shame I had to fork out a grand on fixing the ventilation fans - sort of negates all the savings.

In reply to MikeTS: just a thought http://www.trueactivist.com/how-to-easily-heat-your-home-using-flower-pots-...

In reply to SARS:


Lots of reasons:

1) That's the way houses were designed. Turning them into sealed boxes isn't what they were designed for and is likely to lead to condensation damp.

2) It would take years and frankly I've not got the time and can't be bothered to put in the effort

3) I can easily afford the heating bill and frankly I don't care.

4) If you are running an open fire then free flow of air is kinda necessary anyway.

In reply to MikeTS:
In case no-one feels like saying it - wear a jumper.

In reply to bricknall:

There's a huge internet debate (try Google) on whether this is any good

In reply to Tom Valentine:


I do this too. But for reasons that I don't want to explain here, I an sometime naked in my house

In reply to Blizzard:


I have one of these, and so do this also. Hot water bottles are good too!

In reply to John_Hat:



This point is often missed. If you live in an old house you can't pretend it is a modern house or your heating bills will be insane. People used to wear thick clothes in winter. Do this and and there is no problem - it's a lot cheaper to heat one body than an entire house.

In reply to John_Hat:

. The fabric, however (all brick internally and out), acts like a giant storage heater and cools slowly.

Ours is made out of large lumps of limestone, and so we have a similar phenomenon

(PS, we have some serious boulder problems on the outside!)

In reply to MikeTS:

Ignore the boiler/radiators and control strategies to begin with. Where is the heat going? Fix that first, that's where you'll make the big gains... Insulation and draft-proofing. In very rough order of cost effectiveness: Jumper/blanket, Draft proofing, Loft, Walls, Windows, Floors

Control-wise make sure you aren't heating spaces you're not using and not overheating those you are using. Loads of different options for this but the cheapest, most practical retro-fit option is a programmable controller in place of the original thermostat and thermostatic radiator valves in every other room then be pro-active about setting them. A thermostatic controller for the boiler will stop it cycling on-off too quickly but with a simple, single controller system it does mean you end up keeping that room (typically living room) warm if you want your bedroom warm in the morning. Re-doing the plumbing to have full multi-zone control will probably cost more than it'll save.

Condensing boilers like nice cool return feeds for best efficiency but that's no good if your radiators are too small to heat the house properly with a low temperature flow.

Make use of your passive solar gains during the day, open your south facing curtains in the mornings. Conserve the heat at night by closing them.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

Our house is end of terrace built in 1906 with a large NW facing wall and 15 air bricks for under floor ventilation to help prevent damp as all the old houses in our town have it.

The first winter was miserable and we spent most of the time in one room when downstairs.

We have cavity walls so the long end of terrace wall was like having large internal fridge in the downstairs rooms. Over the past couple of years, I had have gone around the house getting rid of the drafts, we have had the cavity wall insulation now and hardwood double glazing fitted and finally we can get house relatively warm. i am not talking tropical; just 17-18c. Enough that I don't feel I have to wear a hat or scarf to stay warm! So far the only condensation is in the kitchen but thats no surprise.

Next step is TRV's for the rads for when the stoves are the primary source of downstairs heat..

In reply to MikeTS: what temperature you are comfortable with? i'm content without heat until it drops below 12C. i can't understand how warm most people demand their houses to be..

In reply to malk:


My experience is that this is very subjective. What you wear? Have you just come in? Have you eaten or are hungry? Are you sitting in a draught? And are the walls cooling or heating (see above that they are mad of large lumps of stone)
So I don't use thermostats much, more fiddle with the temperature as I feel.

In reply to malk:


What's hard to understand about 20 degrees?

In reply to MikeTS:

In the 'Old Days' people actually wore clothes indoors when it was cold outside.

Invest in a decent jumper or get one of your fleeces out of the rucksac and wear that.

In reply to MikeTS:

Get yourself a blanket for the sofa