UKC

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/dec/01/women-climbers-records-...

Enjoy!

In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Love what these girls are doing - makes me try a little bit harder

I know they don't do it to be an inspiration - but it kinda is - so thanks!

In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Looks like a good article, accurate and factual. Shame about some of the readers comments underneath, seems there isn't much to separate DM and Guardian readers if you pick the right subject.

In reply to teflonpete:

I thought it was deeply flawed and undermined its own good intentions!

In reply to Blue Straggler:

because....?

I thought it was pretty reasonably for a mainstream article on climbing.

In reply to Carolyn:

Edited from a Facebook conversation (all my side):

Pt. 1)
This is awful writing.
Finlay is not from "the south-west" unless they mean south-west Warrington.
There are no "records" being set (semantics, I know - obviously one could class an FA or FFA as a "record" but I've never seen the word "record" being used in any sense in climbing, apart from speed records on The Nose(s) )

How can an open-ended scale have a top end? That's a contradiction in terms (I know that top end is still open, but to a "layman" it is poor and confusing writing)

I think such shoddy journalism does a disservice to these climbers. I also think that even if tightened up, an article like this is still counterproductive, patronising claptrap; it stinks of "didn't these girls do well, some of them are nearly as good as men".

Pt. 2)
Hence my final sentence which essentially imagines the article with correct facts etc. It still doesn't show these ladies "kicking ass", it shows them being "nearly as good as men". Or am I perhaps reading that into it?
I just think that "women doing some top-end hard climbs" could be reported in a more "empowering" way.

Pt. 3)
OK I may have simply over-reacted to this line.
"rapidly closing the gap with their male contemporaries"
I've re-read the piece more objectively and though it still leaves a bad taste, it's not irking me as much as it initially had.

In reply to Blue Straggler: It would be more interested to hear what a non-climber thinks of it, I would guess the majority of it's target audience aren't people like your good self.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

This is true. I am sure it's overall positive, and I have exaggerated the "didn't they do well" aspect. Which perhaps leaves only some pedantry about Findlay's home town and the existence of "records". I was quite tired last night when I was originally wittering all the drivel that I have pasted in above.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I thought it was quite a good article. I agree journalists should perhaps be wary of saying things like women are "rapidly closing the gap with their male contemporaries" which depending how you read it is either untrue (there is still a sizable gap) or just fairly meaningless.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I'll give you the opened-ended scale that somehow had a top end, too - I remember noticing that now you mention it!

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Surely the most obvious howler is the description of Knocking on Heaven's Door as an escarpment rather than a climb.

In reply to John2:



Describing E11 as the top grade is hardluy a howler though - open-ended scale it may be but it still has a top!

In reply to Bulls Crack:


Technically, yes, and I pondered it at the time...but they could say "current maximum" or something. I dunno.

In reply to John2:


I am sure Peter Beaumont cringed when he saw that, right at the start, a big deterrent to any knowledgable reader. More power to him if he can flog this stuff to the mainstream press, but it does show to a certain extent how even something from a knowledegable insider such as Peter can come out looking ... well, a bit patronising is it, or something else that makes me cringe slightly?

Goodness me (or words to that effect). Is it any wonder that climbing remains an underground pursuit if some positive free publicity in a mainstream newspaper can be greeted with this level of criticism and carping? A newspaper whose own roots lie in the working class of Manchester, not unlike the sport itself. Yes, it could be better informed, for the above reason alone, better written even, but the imagined reader knows little or nothing about the sport and needs an easy introduction. I thought it assumed too much foreknowledge if anything. Is E1 then the easiest grade? But now I'm nit-picking. I thought it was a decent effort at celebrating British women's achievements.

In reply to BnB:

It was only me that was being THAT picky, and I am infamously pedantic. I don't my little voice equates to any significant level of criticism!

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Fair point. I hadn't really taken in how many of the posts were yours!!

In reply to John2:


Is it not on an escarpment?

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I don't my little voice equates to any significant level of criticism!

Translate please.

In reply to Michael Gordon:


Why? It has been a natural progression in many walks of life. Traditionally women were stuck at home, looking after children, cleaning, shopping, cooking etc.
In more recent years their options have widened and many things are more "unisex". Climbing, because of it's adventurist aspects is obviously
a late incomer. So of course there are gaps. There are gaps in many walks of life between men and women that are still narrowing. It's not prejudice, it's a celebration of women climbers.

In reply to mockerkin:

The gap has certainly closed a fair bit in terms of participation levels, which is great. Ability-wise the jury is out (unless it can be argued men's performance has stagnated in recent years - not convinced about that).

In reply to Michael Gordon:


Traditionally women were looking after children, cleaning, shopping, cooking etc. They still do that AND work today. It isn't surprising that there are few reaching mens' performance yet.
Then there is pure strength, men tend to be stronger, that helps to keep the gap.

In reply to mockerkin:



"I don't THINK my little voice equates to any significant level of criticism!"

I am not sure how I came to omit an entire word.

In reply to Michael Gordon:


Yes, of course it's on an escarpment - so how can it be an escarpment?

Mick