UKC

We did Vent Rib Direct yesterday as Plan B.

Are there any other routes out there with a 3 grade disparity between technical and overall?

TBH the grade seemed to make sense although it would be at the bottom end of tech 7.

In reply to DaveHK:

I thought this route should have been IV,7 http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=26803 the first pitch was harder than any Scottish 6 pitch I had led but could be protected and even if I had fallen off with no gear, I think I would have just ended up in the snowdrift at the bottom OK!

In reply to TobyA:

It's in the Lakes, most technical grades are a bit on the hard side in the Lakes, you really have to earn tech 5 on many crags it seems.

In reply to DaveHK:

I think there's a IV,7 on Cruachan summit buttress, and a III,6 in Sneachda?

In reply to Jamie B:



Aye there is the III,6 on Fiacaill Buttress which I went to do once but can't remember why we didn't even start it.

In reply to Saor Alba:

Probably because it isn't III,6. I tried it once and couldn't do it.

In reply to LakesWinter:

I've been told it can also really bank out at the bottom which would help as its hard straight off the ground from memory.

In reply to LakesWinter:


On the mid grade classics, I try to rationalise it in my mind as Lakes routes are " easy routes in poor condition" , hence the harsh grades. They usually only get more reasonable in exceptional winters.

In reply to TobyA:

I think Andy gave it Tech 6 on the FA description, quite technical laybacking as I recall.

Remember being shocked at Brian's guidebook draft having it down as IV, he insisted it wasn't hard, we agreed it must have banked out when he did it.
He didn't alter the grade though

Bobbob did RH route the same day, now that is definitely worth a 7. Has it had a free ascent yet?

In reply to Rick Graham:

Nice to find some other people who have done the route! I remember it being great fun, and much more climbing the guidebook suggested.

In reply to TobyA:

I've done it too, I thought it was hard but I use it as benchmark 5! Did Chock Gully last season which is given 5 and I thought it could easily be 6!

In reply to TobyA:

I did it last winter. I thought after the initial lay back it got a lot easier, so classic Lakes short sharp cruxy route. Even having said that I wouldn't argue with IV 6 (or just V 7 possibly?) did Plaque route after which is a proper, (and very good,) IV.

In reply to DaveHK:

Hi Dave, we were in the corrie next door.

Sphinx Direct iv,7 Stob Coire Nan Beith

Edge of Darkness iv,6 Beinn An Lochain, having done it, could be a contender??

Stuart

In reply to DaveHK:



I failed on it a couple of winters ago. Felt 7 to me, but then I'm rubbish.....

Didn't western Route used to get IV,7? (probably is in lean conditions).

In reply to DaveHK:

Sunset Buttress Direct on Lochnagar is IV, 7.

In reply to joe.91:

I think Chock gets IV 4 in the current guide, but yes, it felt IV 6 when I did it last March, or Lakes IV 5.

In reply to joe.91:

Me and the guy I climbed it with had just a few weeks before done Shelf Route on Buchaille Etive Mor (IV,6) and both thought Left Hand Route was technically harder - so you'll be cruising when you get to Scotland.

In Coire Loch Nan Eun (The Stuic), there is Stooee Chimney IV 7 *

We climbed the route beside it at III 4 and there was plenty of climbing in that for the grade so thought the IV 7 would be quite interesting... Anyone climbed it?

In reply to Paul249:

Corvus gets IV 6 in the lakes guide I have, but I can't see anything about it on UKC.

In reply to DaveHK:




Did it years ago when it was only IV, 6! Followed my mate and pulled on a lot of gear. Hard.
Jd

In reply to Rick Graham:

From memory, the snow that day wasn't particularly consolidated, it needed some freeze-thaw. The aid point on RH route was due to no freeze-thaw to hold the scree on the finishing ledge of the crux together. Since that bit of the route is on a spur it's not going to get any ice from drainage.

Bob

In reply to Cameron94:

I've not climbed it yet myself, although I think there not some debate over that route, is the tech 7 not argued to be a move literally to the side of the route itself? Like I say, not climbed so can't comment!

In reply to Paul249:

Aye that route sprang to mind as well, would be interested to hear from anyone who has climbed it.

In reply to DaveHK:

There is a route in Stob corie nan lochain in glen coe called The Douglas Pebble that i think gets iv,7. (it was done after the new guide came out.
There are quite a few V,8 s and IV,7 s on sandstone that i know of. The nature of sandstone lends it self to this due to a tier sticking out of an otherwise reasonable route.
James e

In reply to DaveHK:

Had more of a think about this last night - there are a few Lakes routes with fierce but short lived cruxes with uninviting landings, (there was no big snow slope when I did it.) It's basically a grade IV route with a short tech 6/7 section, but in a position where you can quickly be above your gear enough to hit the floor and hurt yourself. It's on routes like this where the description is really important; IV 7 or V 7 as a grade would usually say to me this is a good route to push your grade on as it's safe as houses, where in actual fact it's effectively a highball winter problem, (without the aid of a matt,) into a grade IV route.

In reply to LakesWinter:

From what I've been told from people who have also climbed the initial two pitches before the traverse in it can be another route with short sharp cruxes a little too far above the landing for comfort - see my previous post - so possibly V 5 for the whole route, IV 5 from where we did it?

In reply to DaveHK:

White Rabbits III,6 Cul Mor, Overhead protection the whole way, short hard sections, atypical of the crag which has more VII,6.

There is of course Drum II,6, but make sure its icy, scratch at your peril!

In reply to DaveHK:

I think Nirvana Wall on the Far Eastern crag of Aonach Dubh (Glen Coe) gets IV, 7, but too lazy to check in the guidebook.

In reply to Exile:

Cool, I can see how that could be the case, especially without exceptional build up. I'm keen to get back on it when those first 2 short pitches are in condition anyhow. I thought the top 2 pitches were great and well worth repeating

In reply to Exile:


Your description above suggests to me that IV,7 is inaccurate for that route?

In reply to niallk:


Gets VI,8 in the Ciccerone guide.

In reply to Jamie B:

This route had come to my attention, as a possibility - then some 'locals' beat me to it.

Stuart

In reply to Michael Gordon:

My point is that the grade IV 7 would work in some respects - a grade IV route with a short section of 7, but not in others - you could, reasonably easily, hurt yourself falling off the crux, which is why the description is all important. The alternative is to give it VII 7, which it isn't.

In reply to DaveHK:

IV,7 is not a grade I like, and it would have to be an extreme case before I would. Vent Rib Direct at IV,7 is not what I graded it (I think it was IV,6).

In reply to LakesWinter:

I reckon that since it hardly ever ice's up and over the chockstone, I reckon its worth a higher grade then in the guide (I think V 5 as in ukc). I believe I was the first up it last season and when I did it there was mushroom style snow above the ice beneath the chock which made it hard work getting through and placing gear.

In reply to Jamie B:


yes, think there's a IV,7 near to it though

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

I seem to remember myself and Erik B, having a chat with yourself and Dave McG, at his home about grades.

Erik and I were of the same opinion, our example being Vent Rib Direct, which has 1 or 2 very sustained moves, overhead gear, but the route as a whole did not merit V. We suggested IV,7 and even Savage Slit IV,6, since very well protected and not serious, thought moves of 6?

We were ALL much younger then.

Regards

Stuart

In reply to Robert Durran:


In John Cunningham and Alan Fyffe's, 'Winter Climbs in the Cairngorms' (1981), Savage Slit was Grade IV and Western Route was a Grade III.

I think the FA had been soloed by the late Tom Patey, though having struggled on the wall myself, I assume it had been unusually banked out when Patey soloed it!!!!.

In Rab Anderson's 'Climber and Hillwalker' Supplement's Guide (Dec 1993), Rab graded Western Route as a IV,6/7 for the more normal lean conditions.

Not sure what grade it gets now but the crux wall must be at least technical 5/6 unless banked?

In reply to Ron Walker:


IV,6 would probably still be fair for both of them. I think I may have been using that guide when I backed off soloing Western Route in 86!

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

I wouldn't have argued with that. If it is 7 its bottom end. Out of curiosity do you know how the upgrade came about?

In reply to Stuart the postie:

I've always thought Savage Slit seemed like a good sustained IV,5

In reply to DaveHK:


I wish I could remember. Obviously folk (some folk anyway) were finding it hard. Perhaps it received the grade by default because V,7 felt too high. It wasn't me that upgraded it but I may have accepted the grade.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

I can't agree with Savage Slit being overgraded at V,6. I think that it's solid at the grade, with other V,6s like Deep Throat and Pot of Gold (Sneachda) being easier.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:


I think IV,7 is probably spot on for it. Totally safe but short, hard and strenuous.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

Must be a case of horses for courses. It felt a grade easier than any V I've done, including Deep Throat. I accept the consensus seems to be V,6 though.

I found the Third Man harder as well - felt V,6, to me at least!

In reply to DaveHK: Im not sure where the original VRD goes, but when I did it i basically followed the groove on the left side of the rib through a slab, roof and cracked wall at the lower end of it. This felt v hard for me at the time. from memory im sure VRD actually starts from the right edge instead and is easier.

andy can you confirm?

but the name perhaps confuses people as the obvious direct line is the left edge i think?

of course as a caveat I could be talking utter mince and its a different route im thinking of

In reply to Erik B:

Isn't the IV,7 on Cruachan one of yours?

In reply to Michael Gordon:


That'll be Yen, IV,7. Good luck finding anyone to comment on that one!

In reply to Jamie B: thats more of a boulder problem that one jamie. not convinced i should have recorded it. my enthusiasm back then overtook pragmatic decision making i guess!

In reply to Erik B:


We went up the obvious shallow groove / corner in the middle of the rib. Sounds like this could be what you are describing.