UKC

Hi

I'm just wondering whether the length of your front points affects calf pump when climbing ice? I can adjust my front points to either a long or shorted length and the last few years I have had quite bad calf pump on steep ice.

Thanks

In reply to iamaclimber:

yes it will as you have to balance the moment exerted by the force. That said, the biggest cause of calf pump is hanging around for too long placing gear without an adequate side step.

In reply to iamaclimber:

How do you know whats better then? Long or short length?

In reply to iamaclimber:

Shorter means shorter lever, and therefore the theory is less pump, cant comment first hand but has read this theory somewhere recently.....sorry can't recall where...

In reply to molly2202:

I shortened my front point lasts year and it did make a beneficial difference - less strain on the calves, move stable on edges and no notable downside as far as i could see. Easier to walk in too.

In reply to molly2202: Sorry but that's bollocks because you're not standing on the end of the point. The point should be in the ice and the secondary point also engaged and supporting you. I suspect most calf aches come from not getting your secondary points engaged, although steep ice is hard on your arms and legs!

The lever point may be true whilst mixed climbing of course, but that's different.

In reply to iamaclimber:

I'd agree with what Toby said, though if you have your front points shorter your probably more likely to get them deep enough to engage the second set of points. Imo.

In reply to iamaclimber:

The reason my points were set long in the fist place was that on ice it made no difference to the lever, in that all the point was buried and arguably gave you a better placement. However, on Scottish stuff in which the ice may not be that thinck or you're scratching around on whatever is to hand, the shorter point was far more stable and less strenuous. It's still not 'stubby' by any stretch of the imagination, but i can't see myself extending it any time soon.

If you're really struggling with calf strain, do some exercise and/or look at the way your hold your feet/knees when front pointing and the support provided by your boots.

In reply to iamaclimber:

I find long points a real pain and clumsy on mixed and unlike Toby, I do notice a big leverage difference on hard boilerplate water ice if the front point is too long.
Interesting on steep ice, I rarely notice calf strain as it's my grip or secure axe placements that I most worry about!
Having said that, most new ice climbers keep their heels way too high, tense and kick chunks out what should be good placements made with a gentle tap or just body weight!
If you have one really good axe placement or even better two, you can hang straight armed almost forever (with leashes that is Toby!!!) on vertical ice and walk your feet straight up when drop heeled.
When drop heeled the secondary point engage and there's very little strain on the calves, allowing your body weight to force the front points into the ice.
If you are going to place an ice screw on steep ground make sure you do so before the hard bit and use or chop a ledge for your feet beforehand.
If it's a short distance and you have a good bomber ice screw just below, it may be better to keep moving until you get a good resting ledge rather than faffing about, getting pumped!!!
Having said that long smooth unchopped easy slabs are the most tiring so try to use natural features as you would in rock, relax and let your heels drop to engage the secondary points.

In reply to iamaclimber:

My experience is that stiffness and fit of boot have been more crucial to avoiding calf-pump than anything else.

In reply to Jamie B:

Hi Jamie,

Another vote for boot stiffness and heel position - heel position is the most common fault I see every week.
ANdy

In reply to iamaclimber: Top tip. Walk in with your laces done up comfortably. Before putting your crampons on crank up the laces as tight as you sensibly can.