UKC

What sort of kit do you carry for emergencies when out Scottish winter climbing? I tend to carry personally:

In a tiny dry bag:
GPS and spare batteries
Spare head torch
Spare mitts
Old mobile phone (not my iPhone with rubbish battery life)
Small first aid kit

In a pair there are usually a map and compass each, and a shared thermos that doesn't get drank till later on in the day, and a 2man bothy bag.

Is this too much or spot on in trying to be lightweight. Anything else I should think about?

In reply to andy_e:

I carry as 'emergency' kit in addition to planned bivi kit;

Spare head torch
A second old mobile phone (I use the battery of the first for sais updates)
A freeze dried meal... sometimes
Extra biltong

But my bivi kit is pretty extensive with stuff like fairly large first aid kit (including antibiotics for 3+ day trips), roll of duck tape, more petrol than required for 'just incase' and of course... whiskey

In reply to andy_e:
You could consider adding:
- Crampon repair kit (some chunky zip ties, maybe some gaffer tape) - it's light and can be very useful.
- Some spare warm clothes. Though I guess you do carry a belay jacket or something and just didn't list it as it's not only for emergencies.
- A few hundred Calories of light, high energy food. A mix of high GI and something that lasts a bit longer. I, personally, find this better than a thermos, YMMV.

Not saying you should carry them necessarily, but you asked for things to think about.

(edited for typos)

In reply to andy_e:

'Blizzard bag' and a packet of biscuits

In reply to Jack B:

Cable ties are a good idea! I think I'll add some to my kit.

In reply to Jack B:

Strong Zip ties are a good call! I'm pretty happy my clothing is adequate, once spent four hours walking off the cairngorm plateau in a whiteout at -16 degrees with windchill. Now that was a good test of navigation! I'm glad I had the bothy bag and thermos that day!

In reply to andy_e:

I'd be embarrassed to say how little I carry.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:
Andy, people like you are just irresponsible and should not be allowed out in Winter!

Nor should people like me who climbed the Dent d'Herrens with 30m of walkers' confidence rope and no ice-screws.

In reply to andy_e: If out for a day I only really have a spare head torch which I would call emergency kit.
If out for a few days I would have the same spare head torch, a spare lighter for the stove and my emergency river crossing kit (2 bin liners, 4 elastic bands).
I must get a small first aid kit!

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

You have more than enough knowledge to avoid epics. The salford club is heading up north soon. It just won't be the same without you Andy.

In reply to andy_e:

I carry some duct tape wrapped round my walking poles,a light foil survival bag, a head torch and my phone and that's about it.

In reply to andy_e:

Very little, sometimes a bothy bag, generally on first aid kit, I don't see the point of a spare torch if you check your batteries regularly and know how old the ones in it are. I take a couple of sets of gloves anyway.

In reply to andy_e:

Emergency kit?? A few miniature cigars, perhaps a spare pair of gloves, plastic survival bag. spare bit of map if I have one.

1st aid kit?? Only if I'm going to need it. If its that small it'll contain a few plasters etc., which isn't really 1st aid in my view. I can live with the odd cut and scratch.

In reply to andy_e:

First Aid Kit (ouch pouch really, more like a few pills, plasters and blister plasters)
Head torch
petzl e-lite
spare gloves
spare buff
emergency bivvy bag
goggles

In reply to andy_e:

Condoms & Vaseline

In reply to andy_e:

Very light sleeping bag
Bothy
Bivi bag
Karrimat 3/4 length
Stove
Base layers
Belay jacket
Torch batteries
Tiny compass
Hats/buffalo mitts
Chocolate/instant soup/jelly babies
Pocket hand warmer pouches
And if the worst comes to the worst, Whisky flask 12.5gm of golden Virginia and zippo
Probably 3lb of kit, but I reckon I would survive a night out

In reply to andy_e:

yeh... spare gloves crucial for me.. 2 pairs. I get cold hands. I carry spare compass rather than GPS (Lighter, cheaper, no battery issue) Some bail out tat and a small maillon (so don't leave expensive gear)... Spare batteries / spare torch / bit of food... undecided on FA kit - can improvise most stuff I feel... some sort of bivvy bag or a small group shelter.

In reply to Skol:

Survive? In some luxury I feel!

In reply to andy_e:
Nowadays I'd take a mobile phone with me but this is a very recent addition- never used to.

I have carried a Pertex bivi bag sometimes over the years. This has been superceded by a bothy bag (that I would only carry if I was going into somewhere more remote and serious e.g. the Loch A'an basin). I've never yet needed to use the bivi or bothy bag in an emergency.

Apart from that I don't really carry much except the kit I'll need to climb. The one thing I do carry are 2 pairs of gloves and my belay mitts. One set of gloves are light, walk- in type gloves and the other are my leading gloves.

Spare Y's might be a good idea when pushing the grades...

In reply to mattnuttall:


Any fool can be uncomfortable. I've been unlucky not to be able to use this set up)

In reply to n.LiVE:


He was asking about Scottish emergency kit, not Welsh

In reply to andy_e:

I'd say your fairly spot-on...

I always have a belay jacket- not only makes life more comfortable but can be a lifesaver... I dare say there has been one occasion in my life where it changed a potentially dangerous situation into a merely uncomfortable one. Have a very light synthetic one now, wouldn't go out in winter w/o it. Spare gloves, headtorch and a generous amount of food are usually in my bag anyway (rather then being specifically emergency kit).

I like to have a survival bag as a lighter alternative to a bothy bag(although seem to have lost it atm and unlikely i will have replaced it in time for the next outing). Already have a sh1te phone and personally i don't bother with GPS or a thermos.

In reply to Skol:

If thats what you call an emergency kit, what the Fxxx do you take when you're camping in winter??

In reply to andy_e:

Thats far from lightweight.

Spare gloves, bivi bag of some sort, duct tape wrapped around old film canister, anusol. Possibly spare batteries if torch is running low, and possibly spare sesction of map. Anusol gets most use.

In reply to Martin1978:


Hahhahahh ! Excellent !

In reply to andy_e:

In addition to some of the stuff mentioned aboce , I/we sometimes carry 2 way radios if there's only 2of us going. Very useful in case we get separated and more reliable than mobile phones

David

In reply to Dave Perry:

Swap the bivi bag for a tent
The light bag for a thick one
More food
2 cans of beer.

There's not much difference to me between planning to camp ,and emergency gear. But, with the emergency set up, I don't feel too encumbered, or too at risk

In reply to andy_e:

First aid kit
2 person bothy bag
blizzard bag

In reply to andy_e:

4-man bothy bag, bivvy jacket, spare gloves, spare mitts, spare hat - always take my jetboil, with a full canister. Usual map, compass, GPS, whistle, phone, 2 head torches (LED Lenser H7 and a Petzl e-Lite)

Does the job nicely, would use going into the Loch Avon basin. Might thin it out a bit if doing something closer to the road - Glenshee Munros for example

In reply to climber david:



They can also be handy in a large group of mixed ability, just make sure the person up front has one , and the one at the back always get the other one handed to them as they take up that position.( and let's the other know who currently has it.)

In reply to andy_e:
I usually photograph the days OS map before I leave , and if I lose the paper map, I can zoom in, on the camera .

However, I have decided that I should perhaps just photograph all my maps as I buy them in new condition , on to a dedicated 'maps' memory card, and I can slot that in to my camera as a back up,
I will of course have to rename the file names with the OS No.

( nb. ditto on the zip ties for crampon repairs I mentioned them on another thread, they can also be easily linked together to make much longer ties, and then used for all sorts, including making pole splints for broken bones. )

In reply to Steve Perry:


But how do you know it will just be a day Steve?

An emergency can be when you expected to be out and back in a day, but for whatever don't make it. The little bit of extra kit can make a difference.

In reply to nickinscottishmountains:


If you're starting in the dark and finishing in the dark then I guess your headtorch is probably the most essential bit of kit you have so it's worth having a back up. If you end up dropping it on a route or smashing it during a fall then you aren't completely f*cked if you have a spare torch.

The weather will determine what I'd take, during the long long spell of high pressure last winter I didn't take much at all. During the minging guaranteed whiteout conditions of early winter I took more. This always goes in:

small first aid kit
repair kit - duct tape, small multi tool, 5mm cable tie.
belay jacket

Usually I'll have these as well:
spare head torch
spare compass
Important section of map/guidebook photographed on my camera
survival bag

All pretty light weight in my opinion.

If it's minging or it's going to be a slow day I'll have more gloves and more clothes anyway, if it's nice or I'll be moving quickly I wont. I'll take a small amount of food and water, if it runs out it runs out.

In reply to andy_e:

Small FAK, 3mm cord, small knife, Petzl eLite, duct tape, SOL foil emergency bag, energy gel.
Never used any of it and I hope to never have to.

In reply to andy_e:

Items like spare gloves, hat, bothy bag, first aid kit etc would not, IMHO, be classed as emergency winter kit. Surely this is standard kit.

The Petzl elite is a magnificent piece of kit, I can't recommend this enough. It weighs less than 30g (that's about half the weight of a Mars Bar) and comes in its own little snowproof plastic case that's about the size of a standard matchbox. It pumps out enough light to allow you read maps and the ground around you. You are not going to be able to pick out features 10m away in the dark but that's not what its for. The battery is also the same type as my Altimeter so I'm carrying a spare battery, as such.

The only other item of non-standard kit is a spare crampon strap with a 'French Ring' closure type. Grivel do one and they can be bought from Needle Sports. It's very similar in uses to the Zip Ties mentioned above but with the advantage that it can be released and used again.

In reply to Wee Davie:


There is a valid argument that the more you carry to cover the eventuality of an incident, the more likely you are to need it.

Couple of years ago, while on a bimble up a local hill, my mate had an accident. The details of how it occurred are somewhat comical (lets just say that it involved a plastic sledge), but he sustained significant internal injuries. It is a hill that we nip up and down when we need a couple of hours exercise, and we often don't even bother taking much. We were only just over 1km from the car and within sight of it, and 250m above it, yet there was no way we could move our mate without causing significant harm to him, so had no option other than to call for help. Despite it only being a short amount of time that we spent on the hill, we all got pretty cold, none more so than my mate.

I had a foil bag that we couldn't get him into, but wrapped around him, along with spare clothes (which we also couldn't get on him due to pain, so had to wrap around him as best as we could). Propped up between 2 of us trying to keep him warm, he was still really cold. A group shelter would have made a huge difference. The MR had one, and the difference with it was considerable. Since that day, I take a lightweight one with me as it's worth the insignificant weight.

In reply to Scomuir:

Thanks for sharing, made me think a bit about what I cary and why I carry it. I may not think 'We're only an hour from the road, I won't bother with a bothy bag' (as I did on the weekend,) quite so much!

Usually varies between nothing extra to all or some of, (depending on where, what route, what weather,) blizzard bag, bothy bag, small first aid kit, (wound dressing, pain killers, tape,) a petzl e-lite and spare map.

I do usually carry more than one pair of gloves and sometimes goggles, mitts, and a belay jacket but don't see these as emergency kit but rather climbing kit that I may need for certain routes and / or conditions. I rarely eat all my food but again don't count it as 'emergency rations'.

In reply to Exile:
For me it's the same summer and winter, and no different whatever the length of trip or activity (walk/run/climb...).

Small first aid kit inc. some duct tape, very small Swiss Army knife, whistle, Petzl elite.
Terra Nova ultralight 2 person bothy bag.
Adventure Medical Kits SOL survival bag.

In reply to Jim Walton:


First aid kit is surely for emergencies. Unless one plans on getting injured.

In reply to Scomuir:

A sobering story. I suppose the moral of it for me is that I do probably tend to over-estimate my own 'bullet-proofness'. I should really carry my bothy bag more often- a simple twisted ankle could become life threatening in any Winter outdoors situation.

On a lighter note I once went to a Mick Fowler lecture where he described topping out in darkness on the Shelterstone, and neither he nor his companions (a few hotshots) could remember which end of the compass needle they should follow as they looked at the map. Brilliant!

In reply to Wee Davie:

yes after a while they decided logically it must be white for north, red for south. Great stuff

In reply to Skol:

"one forty-five caliber automatic; two boxes of ammunition; four days' concentrated emergency rations; one drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills; one miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible; one hundred dollars in rubles; one hundred dollars in gold; nine packs of chewing gum; one issue of prophylactics; three lipsticks; three pair of nylon stockings"

In reply to hokkyokusei:
Fair enough. But why the stockings? Are they for trade with women or trannies?

In reply to Skol:

Quote from here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057012/quotes

In reply to Michael Gordon:

What I meant was that this is standard kit that I carry and not specialist winter emergency kit. It's always in, summer or winter, so I don't class it as emergency.

A shovel is an example of "Winter emergency kit", sometimes I carry one sometimes I don't.

In reply to andy_e:

When out climbing on my own, in addition to what you've got I normally carry
Shrink wrapped blizzard blanket
Spare socks and plastic bags (in case your foot goes in a wet hole on the walk in/out)
and a small piece of foam mat
I normally dispense with the first aid kit, just put a few pills in my pocket, can't see what use a few plasters are going to be if I'm lying at the bottom of the crag!

In reply to pass and peak:
Plasters, I admit, are about as much use as tits on a a nun, but a couple of metres of duct tape and a couple of high absorbency sanitary towels can be pretty useful

In reply to andy_e:

Spare headlight with new batteries. GPS with waypoints programmed in <route off etc> I use memory map so print off an A4 section of where I'm going and laminate it, other side can be used to grid refs, guidebook page copy etc. Don't bother with spare phone as partner will always have his too but we turn them off to save the battery when starting off and make sure each of you disable any screen lock on your phone so your mate can use your phone if you are incapacitated. Packet of dextrose sweets, spare ciggie lighter. consider a jetboil rather than a flask, a flask once empty is useless but for the same weight <well maybe slightly more> a JB can provide both of you a hot brew anytime you want. Water isn't a prob in winter and I get Kenko or Nescaff '3in1' sachets so dont need to take milk/sugar, dont bother with cups just make one big brew in the JB pot and share it. Cable ties are good, I take one in the backpad pocket in my sack. A few turns of gaffa around your sigg bottle is handy esp in the days of exploding kofach boots

In reply to csw:

This^^^
I've been taking a couple of panty liners in the first aid for a while now

In reply to andy_e:
Balaclava
Buffalo mitts
Blizzard blanket
Spare head torch battery's

Always carry basic 1st aid kit, pain killers, spare food and whistle plus foil bag in summer.

In reply to csw:


Tits on a nun are not always useless ( Not if you are an Archbishop anyway)

Sex and murder .

"Thresiamma had alleged that the Archbishop had an affair with a nun named Lucy, a fellow teacher at the BCM College, when she lived at Pius X Convent, where Sister Abhaya was found dead in 1992. She said that the college principal who resented the bishop’s ways was forced to take voluntary retirement. According to the CBI affidavit, Father Thomas Kottoor and Father Thomas Puthrukkayil, who have already been arrested by the agency in connection with the murder of Sister Abhaya, had also close relations with the sister. It said the two priests had helped the Archbishop to meet Sister Lucy, who was sharing the stellar room with Sister Sephy, the third accused in the case.

The two priests have been accused of murdering Sister Abhaya after she noticed their illicit relationship with Sister Sephy. Aleppey Medical College forensic surgeons Dr Rama and Dr Lalithambika Karunakaran, who conducted a virginity test on the nun, confirmed that Sephy had continuously engaged in sexual intercourse and she had a transplanted hymen. The stellar room, where Sephy and Lucy lived, had no access to outsiders after 10.30 in the night. Sister Abhaya, according to the CBI, had noticed the nun in a compromising position with the priests.

Sister Abhaya was found dead in the well of the convent on March 27, 1992. The local police and the Crime Branch closed it as a case of suicide. The CBI, which took over the investigation in 1993, found it was a murder."


http://www.khaleejtimes.com/kt-article-display-1.asp?xfile=data/internation...

In reply to Jim C:

Nor are plasters, but there are better alternatives doesn't work for me though

This one does though....

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/kt-article-display-1.asp?xfile=data/internation...

In reply to wilkie14c:


Last year there was accident in the Cairngorms where the person with all the equipment fell, the others then got very lost .

If your partner fell, and was unconscious and inaccessible , you might rue the decision not to have two taken a phone each.

In reply to Jim C:

The only time I've ever needed to use a phone in a mountain emergency, there was no signal

I realise this isn't a case for not taking one, but it's definitely a case for not relying on one

In reply to pass and peak:

I always carry a selection of plasters after having suffered a couple of cuts to the face by falling ice that refused to stop bleeding. Last year in Glen Nevis I managed to slice my forehead open when I inadvertently head butted the sharp edge of my cars boot lid! (I still bear a slight scar) Three large plasters and twenty minutes later I stemmed the flow of blood and was good to go.

In reply to Jim Walton:


I'll second the shovel, and add a probe. Give that it's often climber/walkers who are getting caught in avalanches isn't it about time everyone started wearing a transceiver?

They are expensive (but not as expensive as fancy phones) but if more people got them the cost should come down.

In reply to Jim C:

More than a phone each is overkill in my opinion but of course this does depend upon experience, how well you know the area and the partnership you have with your mate. Where does it end? a spare rope? spare cramps? I used to carry a spare sim card <for a different network> and spare battery but everyone learns in the end that there has to be a cut off point. Each to their own though, its about what the individual feels is within his comfort zone I guess.

<you may have misunderstood my OP - I have my phone and partner has his, just don't have a spare, i.e 3 phones between us>

In reply to OwenM:


I can't argue against the logic of that but the thought of adding over a kilo to a winter bag fills me with horror.

In reply to andy_e:

These days I carry a PLB as well as a "spare" weatherproof mobile phone & a small Silva compass. I suppose that you might consider a head torch, bivvy bag, small multi-tool, GPS or a first aid kit as emergency gear. I look on it more as a sort of an "it's always in there" sort of stuff.

Normal spares are: Spare gloves, hat or balaclava, goggles/sunglasses, warm (belay?) type jacket, hard shell, thermos, food (rarely eaten), small sit mat...if I ever sit down & a snow shovel for digging out someplace out of the wind....if I ever sit down.

Little point in a transceiver as most of my stuff is solo. I find that very few idiots want to get up for a walk or whatever at 5.30 a.m. in the winter!!

In reply to csw:

Have you not heard of bandages?? Or does your female partner not carry her own 'personal' sanitary items?

In reply to n.LiVE:


Oil-based lubricants can attack the latex, leading to pregnancy and / or disease, depending on what you're up to of course. Don't have nightmares.

In reply to Dave Perry:

Bandages aren't very absorbent. I do have a crepe bandage in my first aid kit, but if I was going to use it at all for heavy bleeding it would be to hold the sanitary pad in place, but duct tape will secure the thing in the most awkward of places.

In reply to csw:


I understand that Bear Grylls sometimes has a large crepe. In the woods of course.

In reply to Turdus torquatus:


One of the many benefits of having a well stocked field kitchen behind the cameras....

In reply to Dave Perry:


Perhaps the sanitary towel carriers haven't heard of first field dressings.

In reply to csw:


Careful now. You've got previous.

In reply to johnj:

Yea but pads have a sticky strip so you can just stick em on

In reply to wilkie14c:



Doh!
I did misunderstand that , I will re-read, thanks for the clarification.

(I also meant to say a general note, to carry as much 'emergency items' as you can on your person, I realised this having had two occasions where rucksacks( not mine) were lost over a cliff and in water, and had everything in them including car keys. Luckily, on both occasions they were not emergencies ( but could have been)

In reply to Dave Perry:


I carry tampons ( for firelighting) and used to have condoms to put over my phone in blizzard conditions, as I can keep water out and still see through the condom and operate the buttons.
( however, that was my old style phone, and I doubt that an iPhone , that I now have, will fit inside a condom and, I doubt the touch screen would work, so the condom is redundant .

In reply to johnj:


Perhaps we have and can't be bothered. A field dressing is overkill for most things - bearing in mind it's meant for dressing stuff like shell splinters and the exit wounds left by battle rifles. If I need that much absorbency then I'll stuff a tee shirt into the hole.

In reply to csw:


It's like every suggestion that's made by someone which you feel goes against what you think you can't see any value in it, strange really but there you go. I've carried the small ones as routine for years, very handy for biking, and we've used a good amount of them over the years on the trail. luckily I haven't had any big puncture wounds like you could get from an axe, but I'll continue to carry one. If you think it's overkill that's cool, but as I've used them not for thier original purpose I know how useful they can be.

In reply to Jim C:


Not completely, one would hope

Surprising how few people bother with insulating mats - in the case of emergencies, contact with the ground is the single biggest driver of hypothermia. I tend to carry my daughter's 4-foot thermarest, which weighs a bit under 400g. A couple of layers over the top and a simple foil bivy bag (weight just over 100g and half the size of a tin of coke) can make a huge difference. A few years in SAR showed me the effects of putting casualties straight onto the ground.

Also, always take a packet of suture and some small artery forceps - man up and close the wound directly (done this on more than one occasion, mainly on head wounds). Definitely a good story for the next pub meet-up.

Martin

In reply to johnj:

Well, if you want a less snarky reply, you could try saying something less snarky than "Maybe these people have never heard of field dressings" Normally I'd have suggested you dig your grandma up and teach her to suck eggs, but on this occasion I opted for tact. Field dressings are ok, but they're not the panacea that you seem to think they are. most of the folks I served with used to carry a crepe bandage taped to their field dressing, because really, the only part of it that's worth anything is the pad. the actual bandage part isn't up to much - unless you're using the israeli one with a ratchet built into it - that one works.

It's not hard to assemble a kit that will enable you to cope with the most dire of injuries - however my experience is that if you try to put too much stuff in, you're far less likely to have it within reach when you need it. My first aid kit is about the size of two first field dressings or one shell dressing, but it's a pretty comprehensive kit, and if I wanted to I could carry it in a pocket.

By all means do things your way, I'm not saying that you should make your kit up the same way I do, and I'm not saying the way you do things is wrong, but if you're going to suggest to an ex squaddie that perhaps he might never have heard of a field dressing, then you can expect to be politely told to wind your neck in

In reply to maisie:

Thats a really good point about heat loss / sleeping mat. We all know quickly we get cold when we just stop walking. I spose the best us light & fast fans can hope for is a sack and a rope but get the casualty off the ground ASAP. Be a shame for your mate with a busted leg to end up dying of hypothermia! I've carried a foil wrap, never been opend in ten years since I've had it and hope it never will.
Some good tips, ideas and thoughts on this thread.

In reply to csw:

Dude you really should get out more, ;+)

In reply to andy_e:

For large bleeders or should that be for large bleeding wounds I carry a Celox bandage. ( http://www.celoxmedical.com/eur/ ) Not had to use it I'm pleased to say but with all those sharp pointy bits around in the winter you never know.

In reply to Alan Breck:


Oooooooh. It was only a matter of time before these came up. Personally, I prefer the QuikClot gauze, always backed up by a CAT tourniquet. But only for really bad paper cuts

As someone said, the most useful piece of first aid kit is knowledge. Plus, it doesn't weigh anything and leaves room in the pack for more 80-proof 'medicine'

(With apologies to Alan, who undoubtedly knows when and how to use celox correctly....)

In reply to johnj:


Funnily enough, this one invites quite a bit of debate. Relatively small size means that they saturate quickly, so you may need a few; on the other hand, this can alert you to persistent and voluminous breeders more quickly.

But then there's the argument that the absorbent material is separated from the wound by a semi-permeable membrane, which draws the clotting factor-rich fluid away and retards haemostasis.

Whichever direction you go in, pressure is probably more useful in the immediate phase. Relatively clean, absorbent material of any kind is better than nothing. Unfortunately, when you consider which materials you're likely to be carrying that are absorbent, modern trends in clothing tend to go the other way. Apart from keks and socks, which fabrics would do the trick?

Don't know why the two of you are falling out, though - either option is going to work in the right hands.

In reply to wilkie14c:

"Yea but pads have a sticky strip so you can just stick em on "

Then you are going to be rather disappointed when you use the sticky strips because they'll be the wrong way around. Plus they are not designed to hold as much blood as a reasonable sized dressing.

In reply to maisie:

It just seemed strange to me that people were suggesting improvised ways of possible life saving which save pennies when they've spent a lot of money on the rest of the gear to be out there in the first place, hence why I suggested field dressings.

In reply to johnj:

They're useful, but bulky, they're designed to absorb about half a litre of blood, and you still need a bandage to hold them in place, because the one that's a part of it won't give you enough pressure to stop the kind of bleeding that justifies using it. They're handy things to have when rifle fire or dockyard confetti are your main hazards, but I don't think that those sorts of wounds are particularly likely in a climbing scenario, and if for some reason you do end up with an axe embedded in your chest, then to be honest the lack of a sterile dressing is going to be the least of your worries. The reason I don't carry one has got nothing whatsoever to do with money.

I've tested the absorbency of a sanitary pad, and it holds about half a pint. I carry two of them and if I need more absorbency than that, then the T shirt I wore to walk in is my backup.

Thing is, you didn't suggest field dressings, you suggested that we'd never heard of them. Which came across as a bit patronising, hence the sarcasm. Sorry about that.

In reply to csw:

I should have made it a little clearer, it was just a little bit of light hearted banter, however that seems to have gone completely over your head and it's you who has continued the patronizing for the last few hours for all the forum to see, so consider yourself well and truly trolled and be careful out the with your sanitary pads

In reply to johnj:

I wasn't trying to patronise you there, I was being serious. We all have our own ways of doing things. I was just giving you the thinking behind my way. field dressings are wound dressings and to be honest I think that major wounds are a lot less likely than major fractures in a climbing scenario, which is why my kit is tailored more towards breaks than bleeding. A field dressing isn't going to help you with a flail chest, after all. Horses for courses......

In reply to csw:

Well if you were been serious, I would have hoped you may have taken a positive view that both can be improvised and field dressing outer wrappers can also be used, and the dressings in question were related to blood loss injuries, not what you are moving on to. I'm out of this one all I did was mention a type of commonly used bandage which isn't always used for gunshot wounds which maybe some people were not aware of, I didn't think my little throw away comment would generate so much opposition from you but that's life. Later.

In reply to johnj:

You know, your claim that "Maybe they've never heard of field dressings" was harmless banter would be more believable if you'd said that after my first reply, but you didn't. And do you seriously think there is anyone on these forums who hasn't heard of field dressings? I have to say that thought never occurred to me. And you know, just because a field dressing isn't always used for major wounds, doesn't change the fact that that's what it's designed for, which is why I think that the space is better used for other things. Also you're right about the waterproof wrapper being useful, but not for the injury I mentioned.

In reply to csw:

What's a field dressing?

In reply to andy_e:



I think it's about spot on, the only major thing I would add would be 500g of jelly babies, or similar on top of what you already planned on eating for the day. When the weather is poor, it's getting late, the sandwiches, biscuits and chocolate has been eaten, and you are really not looking forward to the walk out, dumping half a packet of sweets down your neck makes a massive difference to your outlook on life. Suddenly it's not that far, you start warming up, looking after your partner, making sure that you are still taking the safe option and can move faster uphill.

As for the rest, I don't bother with the GPS, but can see its use. You could consider replacing the Thermos with a jet boil or similar (make sure you make it windproof!) at not much extra weight, especially if you carry a smaller water bottle because you can melt snow or fill up from streams.

In reply to nclarey:

It's something dairy farmers use to make the grass more palatable to their cows

Honestly!
The list of kit that people take out is simply staggering. I wonder, if in the heat of an epic, if you would actually remember that you had half of the kit that you think you may need.

It does make me wonder that in your hearts you actually WANT to have a full on epic so that you can blurt on here how you saved the day because you carried a tampon (Heavy Flow), a PLB, three phones, sleeping bag plus spare down jacket, dental surgery kit and Kendal bloddy Mint Cake.

Someone above said that they took a 4ft childs thermarest to sit on so that they don't get cold. How about sitting on your rope, but if you must then why not take just a 1' piece of Karrimat, you'd be suitably cold when you popped your thermarest with your axe/crampons/ice screw.

I wouldn't dream of going out on the hill (Summer OR Winter) without a bothy bag. If my party is 4 or more then I tend to carry 2 in the party. I tend to find that 6men+ bothy bags take up too much room in someones bag. 4man ones seem to be ideal - but that is just me. Some swear by the 12man ones because you can get the whole party in them.

I can really recommend a Aquapac, they fit most smart phones and old skool phones. The touchscreen still works, they are waterproof and can be used without having to get them out of the bag.

Enjoy the hills, don't go hunting for an epic. I can assure you that when you fall into an epic its that last place you want to be. Experience kicks in and improvisation will be the best tool in your kit bag.

Rant over. Sorry if I offend.

I realise this is a climbing forum but on one of my Scottish winter solo walks, starting late in the dark (had on a Lenser head torch and was only planning to walk a few miles before camping) I tripped and broke an ankle. No phone signal. Luckily I was geared up for an overnight camp so was able to pitch the tent, inflate my mat and get into my sleeping bag and later was able to get back to the car along the farm track I had walked out on.

After that I thought about carrying a PLB and walking poles (as I had to crawl / hop) but have not yet done so. I’ve always carried clothes (including a thin balaclava & gloves) assuming an overnight emergency and a bothy bag as well as a main head torch and a spare.

After that incident I was constantly assessing the ‘crawlability’ of whatever route I was on and most would have been a lot worse that the farm track, many unfeasibly so, but now I am largely back to the pre-trip frame of mind but still very wary of walking solo in the dark in winter (in fact I’ve been avoiding them!).

In reply to andy_e:

Rations: Wispa and Twix both fairly robust and can be eaten even when they get really cold. I keep pack of Dextrose sweets in the bottom of the sack as the last resort.

Shelter: Digging in has got to be a major part of ones winter philosophy. I also have a bothy bag and a silvered sheets.

Comms and Alerts: Whistle and light are top of the list. If you are injured and fading then you need to put your LED headtorch on a low setting that will last 2 or more days. This makes it likely you can be found during the first night. For a lone walker or climber, there is a case for your headtorch being worn and on all the time! Spare batteries are lighter than spare phones. Make the effort to understand how mobile phone 999 roaming works and be ready to provide concise useful info and follow-up calls. http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=381861

PLB: cheap to run but although it's right that we now have the option in the UK, I am not a fan unless one is doing multi-day treks in challenging places. Most alerts are false alarms and I wouldn't want to add to that: a climbers rucksack is probably not the best home for a PLB.

Oddments: cable ties, tape, neoprene facemask, B&Q safety specs, mil FFD, lightstick.

In reply to andy_e:

I carry a blizzard bag and a PHD Yukon down jacket. They're light and take up little space so it's no hardship to carry them.

As well as cable ties and duct tape, I recommend taking a few safety pins. The buckle on my rucksack broke and I was able to effect a repair using them.