UKC

After a recent ice-in-face incident (not due to sillyness such as belaying in a stupid place, or climbing under others) does anyone have any recommendations or thoughts for a helmet + visor combination.

In reply to George Ormerod:

What helmet do you currently use?

In reply to George Ormerod:

The one for the Petzl helmets seems pretty popular with continental climbers. Or what about some clear safety specs?

In reply to George Ormerod:
There's a brand of PPE that might have just what you're looking for. They are called MTFU PPE supplies. look them up.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

Well that's a useful bit of information there.

Personally I'd much rather trust my personal safety to a reputable brand than a stupid macho idea. My nose is still wonky from being broken by a ~8x8x3 inch lump of ice that found it's way to freedom via my face and I can't see why anyone would want to repeat that experience if it is avoidable.

In reply to George Ormerod:
The petzl visor works well. Useful as a face shield against wind and snow as well. It's a bit fiddly to fit but persevere! The only downside is it makes the helmet a bit bulkier to carry, unless you move the visor to the completely folded away position, which I don't tend to do as it involves a slightly worrying adjustment which feels like it could break the visor. I think it's the only visor on the market and it's pretty good. Mostly I have it in the half way down position but it's easy enough to move it fully down.

In reply to nufkin:

-1 on the petzl visors, unless they've changed the design in the last year or so.

They attach by putting a thin (I think ~2mm) piece of perspex under a lot of stress. Which then doesn't seem to last very long... My partner and I have both had these break on coldish days, without much abuse.

And as Misha mentions to stow the visor stresses this point again.

In reply to George Ormerod:

-1 for the Petzl visor.

Great idea, just not executed super well. My main issue is the fogging and the moisture that gets in there from spindrift - both kill your visibility. The plastic scratches easily as well, reducing visibility that much more.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

You're a funny guy.

Roger Webb, who anyone who has climbed in Scottish winter much will know by reputation or from the first ascent lists, sometimes contributes to these discussions on visors - advising people to get one. Roger lost an eye being hit by ice IIRC, and I know other ice climbers who have sustained nasty facial injuries from ice hitting them. If you don't choose to use one, that's your choice - but suggesting others aren't up to your manly standards if they do seems rather silly to say the least.

In reply to George Ormerod:

I've had the Petzl one and fitted it both to a Meteor and a Elios. A friend has fitted one to his BD Half Dome too without much effort, but of course as you need to drill you'll be going "off label" so expect no sympathy from anyone should it go wrong. I really liked it, they give much more protection - even when half up so working more like a cap than a full face visor - but my problem with the petzl one is that it snapped at the hinge in less than a season of use. It's just a piece of thin flexi plastic with what looks like a hole made by a hole punch in it where it fits to the hinge device. The hole is close to the edge so it was just about 5mm of thin plastic that cracked making it unusable. You can buy just the actual visor bit (minus the hinge mechs) but that's still like 20 quid. It felt like a bit of a rip off and I've never got round to fixing mine.

A guy I know uses the Petzl working helmet (vertex?) which can fit a google-like visor that looks tougher and better designed. Other climbers I know have the grivel 'cap-peak' sort of visor and like them. I'm currently mainly climbing in Mammut helmet (El Cap) which has a little peak on it, and have noticed even though its v. small even just that does help deflect ice a wee bit.

Clear safety glasses are another possibility to keep chips and small bits out of your eyes but wouldn't help protect ice sockets/cheek bones I guess. The Bolle work ones cost little and look really cool though!

In reply to Misha:


It DOES break the visor as I have proven! But agree it's a total pain to pack if you don't do the "slightly worrying adjustment".

In reply to George Ormerod:

+1 for the Petzl Visor, I fitted one after I damaged both eyes in separate accidents and couldn't see clearly for a few months. It fits the Meteor III, Sirocco and the Elios. I find it easy to use, the extra bulk isn't noticeable and it hasn't broken yet (over 2 years.) In some conditions it can mist up or even hoar up, but in that case I have no idea what can be done to keep it clear (if you know, maybe drop Petzl a line,) and a wipe with a glove gets rid of the worst of it. It's taken several blows that would have gone to the face, from axe ripping to ice falling and has scratched a bit, but can still be seen through. It's very nice in spindrift and high winds because it can just be dropped down to shelter the face.

In reply to George Ormerod:

Also got the Petzl vision visor after a head injury had me worried about further eye injuries.

It provides protection from falling ice, and pulling your axe out into your own face (quite common!!). It does become bulkier for carrying, and when climbing putting slings over your head often seem to catch on it.

If its cold dry blue sky continental ice climbing I think its perfect, for general Scottish Winter Climbing with spindrift melting on it etc, I find vision significantly impaired with water running down the visor, and wouldn't recommend so much.

I have seen some people abroad wearing protective goggles which seem really good, though they are quite expensive. e.g. http://www.bradleyalpinist.com/cart/index.php?cPath=29&main_page=index never used any of them personally though.

Here is a thread that might provide further info:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=427636

In reply to TobyA:

I took my rope access helmet ice climbing last year - Petzl Alveo + Vizir. Although it is a bit bulkier than a climbing helmet it was a bit of a revelation actually, it immediately seemed stupid not to have used one before. The Vizirs are actually made by Bolle, come down to mouth height and are fairly bombproof up or down, though scratch easily. The Alveo is a lot lighter and lower profile than the Vertex which sits very high on the head (they both have ear clearance for ear defenders). Although both the Petzl helmets meet the mountaineering impact requirements I don't think they're a long term solution. I'll certainly be looking to have a visor on my winter helmet in future though.

Some pics here but facebook so may not be visible: https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/577159_1015148897...

In reply to George Ormerod:

I recall a similar product advertised in The Climber & Rambler circa 1979. I wonder why they never catch on for general use?

In reply to George Ormerod:

Grivel do one for the salamander, not on website but my local shop ordered one up for me and it just clips on easily

In reply to Paul249:

The problem with protective goggles is likely to be misting up, especially when used in conjunction with prescription glasses.

In reply to Adam Long:

This is Janne's https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BegdbgDCQAAfStN.png (sorry about the crappy quality). Is that the same type as yours? Anyway it looks a good system.

In reply to TobyA:

Janne uses Vertex... So Alveo is lighter... I think the actual visor is the same though on both...

Vertex Vent
http://www.petzl.com/en/pro/verticality/helmets/comfortable-helmets/vertex-...

Alveo Vent
http://www.petzl.com/en/pro/verticality/helmets/lightweight-helmets/alveo-v...

I think I'll get the Grivel visor/lip for my Siroccos... cheap and almost certain it is going to work...
http://www.grivel.com/products/rock/accessories/43-visor_-_visor_fum

In reply to George Ormerod:

You could always get a peaked ski/kayak helmet or just wear a baseball cap under your current helmet...or attach the peak to a beanie hat if your sewing skills are up to the job.

Might give you a bit more protection without the reduce viz of a visor...

In reply to TobyA:
What Toby said!

The risk is greatest for a belayer looking up, once you are climbing, unless you are on a popular ice climb falling stuff isn't so much of an issue, hence fogging up isn't as much of a problem as one might think. I have a visor I would use if say doing point five but otherwise a pair of bike glasses, goggles or just glasses will do the trick.

The risk may seem small but if you are unlucky the consequences of not having some form of eye protection are really unpleasant. It's not that much hassle to cover them on a belay. A thought that occurred to me as Gary Kinsey dumped large amounts of the Genie on me last week and my glasses were in the sack....at the bottom of the route.

Just to be totally clear losing an eye is not pleasant, is a handicap and makes becoming totally blind a lot more likely.

There is a clear risk of eye injury in this sport. Think about it.

Rant over

PS Highclimber, you can MFTU all you like, your eye still won't work anymore once its burst.

Now the rant is over

In reply to HeMa:

It's funny I thought it was the Vertex too, but in that pic (from when we were all at Rajis just before Xmas) it looks like he has the other one - the Alveo doesn't it? I'll have to ask him next time I see him if he has recently changed! But anyway - both take the visor so still seem not bad choices for ice climbing.

Adam - why is you feel that they're not a good solution for winter if they do pass the relevant UIAA/CE tests?

In reply to TobyA:
The chap in your pic is definitely wearing an Alveo vent - the vents on the Vertex are the same shape as the old Ecrin. Mine is the Alveo best, i.e. without any vents. The Vertex vent actually has one advantage over the Alveo in that the vents have built in shutters that can be opened and closed. The Vertex sits a lot higher on the head though, which feels less stable. This is due to the air gap between cradle and shell, whereas the Alveo has a smaller gap filled with polystyrene foam.

It's the same visor on both - the Visir - though you can also get a full face visor, looks to be overkill for ice climbing though.

The disadvantage of the industrial helmets is basically size, and the clearance of the ears. Unless you have a head like a pumpkin they overhang a lot at the back, which makes them more likely to foul on your sac when you look up. Mine is certainly very useable, and I'll be using it again, but I'll be looking for something a bit neater. Having said that I haven't looked at the other options closely yet and it may be that I stick with it.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

Thanks, it was the wife that nearly got her nose broken and teeth knocked out. At the bottom of a thin, spicy, Canadian WI4. But she did the whole route anyway. I think she's more than adequately equipped with MTFU PPE, probably more so than you.

Everyone else: Thanks for the sensible contributions.

In reply to George Ormerod:

I've have my Petzl Vizion visor for about eight years now, and I'd say it's my best buy ever.

It does have some scratches, but that doesn't impair my vision. Have been climbing in Canada at -25°C, but it didn't break. Fogging can be an issue, but that can easily be solved with some detergent in the morning.

In reply to rogerwebb:

Minimum PPE.
http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/protective-clothing-workwear/eye-protection/B-an...

A small mod of a piece of shock cord and tensioner keep them in place.

In reply to Jim Fraser:

cheaper than Oakley! I'll try them, thanks

You still owe me a route we must get out this winter